Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Praetores,

With the Calth box, Warhamer 30K seems much more interesting now in France!

My brother and I would like to give this new game a try (not so new because we are already playing 40K and rules are the same).

There are some legions I like better : Iron Hands, Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors.

Reading threads of this wonderfull forum, it seems that 30K is not a competitive kind of play and that's what we are looking for.

So, here is an example of what I could play, based on Calth miniatures and some 40K stuff (Rhino are not so differents) :

Alpha Legion
ROW : Pride of Legion (I know, not the best choice but using BoC)

Praetor : Cataphractii / Chainfist / Dagger / Digital Laser
7 powerfull attacks in a charge! Just amazing, even against a big AV!

10 Cataphractii : Chainfist / 9x PF / 10x Dagger / Banestrike
Praetor's guard with 4 nasty attacks each in a charge. Banestrike is here to make 3+ suffer.


10 Veteran Tactical : Tank Hunters / 2x Meltagun / Bombs
Rhino 35
My mobile AV killers, nothing more to say about them.

10 Veteran Tactical : Snipers / AA / PF / Dagger
Waiting for them to make a lot of 6 to become AP3. Boosted Sergant with a Dagger to stay fluffy of course!


10 Veteran Tactical : Snipers / AA / PF / Dagger
Waiting for them to make a lot of 6 to become AP3. Boosted Sergant with a Dagger to stay fluffy of course!

TOTAL = 1370

Finally, I can play walking Terminators as the Praetor's retenue and as Alpha Legion, everyone will go with Inflitrate.

Thanks a lot for your help fellow Praetores because I still have 130pts to spare.

Moved from Iron Hands to Alpha Legion (I've just read the Legion's book).

Could always try making the Vet Tac Squads into Headhunter Killteams, and the Terminators to Lernaean Terminators (You'd need Volkites and Axs).

Then take the Headhunter Leviathal as your RoW.

Thanks a lot for your answer Victor.

But, if I do so, I won't have enough troops left to capture anything (and to have a legal list) except if the RoW you're talking about allows it.

BTW, where is this RoW, I can't find it?

Are Predator, Medusa or even Vindicator fluffy for the AL because I'd betempted to take one with the points left?

Cool to see another French Alpha Legionnaire

You can use whatever you want to use with AL, the 30K version they had a lot of tanks and heavy support like the others Legions because they had a lot better supply support than now. In short 40K Alpha Legion is Spec Ops, 30K Alpha Legion is USA army.

MantaOne wrote:
Thanks a lot for your answer Victor.

But, if I do so, I won't have enough troops left to capture anything (and to have a legal list) except if the RoW you're talking about allows it.

BTW, where is this RoW, I can't find it?

Are Predator, Medusa or even Vindicator fluffy for the AL because I'd betempted to take one with the points left?

That RoW makes the Headhunters troops, and is located in Book 6 Retribution. Its a pretty neat RoW with lots of perks and a few disadvantages, like you aren't allowed to have allies, but on the first turn enemy units that have not been shot at by the Alpha Legion must role a Ld test to shoot and if they fail they cant shoot at all.

There is a summary of the RoW on 1d4chan; https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_%2830k%29#XX_Legion:_Alpha_Legion

That's really a great and fluffy RoW for the AL Victor!

After a first look at Headhunters : They're very expensive and so fragile.

But they are so fluffy and, if I understand it well, with the help of BS5 and Preferred Enemy, it's a nearly 100% chance to hit infantry (and kill MEQ with the Banestrike).

So, keeping that in mind and with the nice idea of the Glass Cannon (my Headhunter's vision), here is a new project I'd like to submit.

ALPHA LEGION - Headhunter RoW
Counter Attack for all !

Praetor : Cataphractii / Chainfist / Dagger / Digital Laser
7 powerfull attacks in a charge! Just amazing, even against a big AV!

5 Cataphractii : Chainfist / Dagger / 4x PF
Praetor's little guard but with 4 nasty attacks for the Sarge to deal with massive AV.

10 Kill Team : AA / PF / 4x Combi Plasma
MEQ/TEQ killer squad, especially with Preferred Enemy and Plasmagun. AA to make them a little more resilient.

10 Kill Team : AA / PF / Bomb / 2x Combi Melta
MEQ killers, of course but with the ability to deal with AV.

10 Kill Team : AA / PF / Bomb / 2x Combi Melta
MEQ killers, of course but with the ability to deal with AV.

TOTAL = 1480pts

Here is my fluffy point of view for AL : Infiltration and specialists in the art to kill!

What do you think about it Praetores? I'm low on people but everybody scores and is deadly.

I can also switch Combi Weapons to fit with the situation at best (maybe I'm too killy against AV in 1500pts...)?

Terminators can't take power daggers - only character models. The champion can though

Damn! You're absolutly right Chaz.

I've just edited the list above but what can I do with this 20pts left?

Maybe 4 more Combi Weapons on my Kill Teams because it's not very expensive and can really be deadly (4 Combi Plasma = 6-7 TEQ/MEQ dead in 1 turn)?

If doing so, would you go Plasma or Melta (or something else) in 1500pts games?

Now, I have a doubt on my anti-AV potential, maybe too much...

In 1500 Points games the Combi-Melta could be good, as you will be less likely to run into entire armies of Armored Ceramite.

MantaOne wrote:
Damn! You're absolutly right Chaz.

I've just edited the list above but what can I do with this 20pts left?

Maybe 4 more Combi Weapons on my Kill Teams because it's not very expensive and can really be deadly (4 Combi Plasma = 6-7 TEQ/MEQ dead in 1 turn)?

If doing so, would you go Plasma or Melta (or something else) in 1500pts games?

Now, I have a doubt on my anti-AV potential, maybe too much...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
In 1500 Points games the Combi-Melta could be good, as you will be less likely to run into entire armies of Armored Ceramite.

It's pretty difficult to get into melta range as it is, especially with drop pods. Maybe just load up on more melta bombs?

Just so you know, Headhunters no longer have PE (unless you take Alpharius ofc.) :( It got switched out for Precision Shots in book: 6

 Swampmist wrote:
Just so you know, Headhunters no longer have PE (unless you take Alpharius ofc.) :( It got switched out for Precision Shots in book: 6

Book Six or Age of Darkness Legions, because other than a Rite of War, Headhunter rules aren't mentioned in Book 6.

right, no, it's the age of Darkness book, my bad.

 ChazSexington wrote:

MantaOne wrote:
Damn! You're absolutly right Chaz.

I've just edited the list above but what can I do with this 20pts left?

Maybe 4 more Combi Weapons on my Kill Teams because it's not very expensive and can really be deadly (4 Combi Plasma = 6-7 TEQ/MEQ dead in 1 turn)?

If doing so, would you go Plasma or Melta (or something else) in 1500pts games?

Now, I have a doubt on my anti-AV potential, maybe too much...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
In 1500 Points games the Combi-Melta could be good, as you will be less likely to run into entire armies of Armored Ceramite.

It's pretty difficult to get into melta range as it is, especially with drop pods. Maybe just load up on more melta bombs?

With Infiltrate Standard on Headhunters it wouldnt be as hard to get into range, but the Meltabombs could work better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swampmist wrote:
right, no, it's the age of Darkness book, my bad.

No worries, I just wanted to be sure I didnt skim over something.

What the hell, I'm cursed!

With the loss of PE, is there a cost modification too (because I dont have the Book 6) ?

If not, they become less interesting and I'll have to switch my plan (AL always do so)...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

MantaOne wrote:
Damn! You're absolutly right Chaz.

I've just edited the list above but what can I do with this 20pts left?

Maybe 4 more Combi Weapons on my Kill Teams because it's not very expensive and can really be deadly (4 Combi Plasma = 6-7 TEQ/MEQ dead in 1 turn)?

If doing so, would you go Plasma or Melta (or something else) in 1500pts games?

Now, I have a doubt on my anti-AV potential, maybe too much...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
In 1500 Points games the Combi-Melta could be good, as you will be less likely to run into entire armies of Armored Ceramite.

It's pretty difficult to get into melta range as it is, especially with drop pods. Maybe just load up on more melta bombs?

With Infiltrate Standard on Headhunters it wouldnt be as hard to get into range, but the Meltabombs could work better.

You need to be within 6," which is 1" closer than average charge range. I doubt any player is going to let you walk 12"+ from where you Infiltrated from without firing as much AP3 at them as super humanly possible. At least, that's my experience. Melta bombs are that much cheaper, and are Armourbane, not Melta, so they avoid Armoured Ceramite.

MantaOne wrote:What the hell, I'm cursed!

With the loss of PE, is there a cost modification too (because I dont have the Book 6) ?

If not, they become less interesting and I'll have to switch my plan (AL always do so)...

Dont brush off Precision Shots that easily, being able to chose who takes the shots is invaluable.

ChazSexington wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

MantaOne wrote:
Damn! You're absolutly right Chaz.

I've just edited the list above but what can I do with this 20pts left?

Maybe 4 more Combi Weapons on my Kill Teams because it's not very expensive and can really be deadly (4 Combi Plasma = 6-7 TEQ/MEQ dead in 1 turn)?

If doing so, would you go Plasma or Melta (or something else) in 1500pts games?

Now, I have a doubt on my anti-AV potential, maybe too much...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
In 1500 Points games the Combi-Melta could be good, as you will be less likely to run into entire armies of Armored Ceramite.

It's pretty difficult to get into melta range as it is, especially with drop pods. Maybe just load up on more melta bombs?

With Infiltrate Standard on Headhunters it wouldnt be as hard to get into range, but the Meltabombs could work better.

You need to be within 6," which is 1" closer than average charge range. I doubt any player is going to let you walk 12"+ from where you Infiltrated from without firing as much AP3 at them as super humanly possible. At least, that's my experience. Melta bombs are that much cheaper, and are Armourbane, not Melta, so they avoid Armoured Ceramite.

True, but by that standard, getting there with the Melta bombs will be just as hard. But the points saving would be worth it. Put them into some dedicated AT.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


True, but by that standard, getting there with the Melta bombs will be just as hard. But the points saving would be worth it. Put them into some dedicated AT.

Agreed. Infiltrate just doesn't get you close enough. An Infiltrating Rhino will though, so they can use meltaguns, or even better, Legion Drop Pods or Dreadclaws.

Interesting!
I myself have started toying with Alpha Legion - and have tried this RoW.
I found it difficult to deal with armour - that being said I had too many vehicles and it meant most of my army started in reserve,

Head hunters did lose PE - but they all gained combi bolters by default (reroll misses anyway and BS5). So you essentially traded rerolling to wound rolls of 1, with precision shots which isn't so bad.

Keep in mind with the Alpha Legions special terminators, you can replace the axes with fists for 5 points a piece - so youd just need to buy some Volkite chargers to model them and then you'd get a bunch of WS5 fist attacks - with the harrower having 5 on the charge if you give him a dagger. And then give him the Venom Sphere belt thing and they can all have HoW for a turn too because why the feth not.

Hi sm3g and all Praetores involved in this subject.

I've just have a look on the HH 6 book and if I can see the new Headhunter RoW, no way to find the rule modifications about AL Kill Team!

Do you have the page number please ?

BTW, nobody told that I was totaly wrong with the list above because I can't give my KT any Combi Meltagun or Combi Plasmagun...

I'll make my brain work on that again so, maybe coming back to the PotL RoW (AL fluff afterall).

The rule modification is not in HH6, its in the Age of Darkness Legions book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And you can give them those options, because of the mentioned update in Age of Darkness Legions book.



Had to edit, I meant AoDL rather than book 6 in the second part.

Its page 126 of the AoDL Book, they can take a Combi-Weapon with Banestrike bolts for the same price that Legion Terminators can take a standard Combi-Weapon.

Thanks a lot Victor.

So, I'll finally be touched by the 40K curse and the Pride of Legion approach.

I know, that's not "fully 30K" but AL is also well known for specialist and elite troops so it's still fluff.

Here is my new vision (and probably the last to begin with AL) :

RoW : Pride of the Legion - Infiltrate
Prateor : Cataphractii / Chainfist / Dagger
Still my B@C leader, with an AL Dagger to stay fluff and send 6 attacks on charge!

10 Cataphractii : Chainfist / 9x PF Banestrike
Praetor's retinue which will infiltrate to quickly launch a Banestrike storm.

10 Veterans : Sniper / AA / PF
Infiltrated MEQ/TEQ response if I can have enough 6 and not a joke in close quarter.

10 Veterans : Sniper / AA / PF
Infiltrated MEQ/TEQ response if I can have enough 6 and not a joke in close quarter.

10 Veterans : Tank Hunters / Melta Bombs
Mobile thanks to the LR, charging and destroying any AV14 stuff in one turn.

Land Raider Phobos : Ceramite
The Tank Hunters transport which will not be infiltrated, of course, but solid enough to get close to AV threats.

What do you think about this try ? 40 scoring units (10 of them being 2+/4++) is really nice in 1500pts and even if squads of 10 Marines could seem fragile in the 30K universe, they will be all in ruins or a transport, at fire range, to avoid loses on the road to Hell.

Maybe give your Veteran Sergeants Power Daggers too? If you can find the points. Maybe consider giving your tank busters meltaguns too.

You have very little anti TEQ. I'd maybe suggest giving the Veterans plasma guns for a little utility.

I use the Headhunter RoW with Alpharius in 1750+ points games (25% rule)
I use...
Armillis Dynat (All round HQ with a rule that gives you +1 on the vehicle damage chart, allowing you to reliably pop tanks with basic infantry)
Exodus (4 Shot Sniper Rifle? WHY ARENT YOU TAKING THIS!)

2x Headhunter Killteams (A reliable unit that has Power Daggers, dont be afraid to charge them into combat)
2x Recon Squads w/ Power Armoura nd shotguns (soak up some wounds for exodus and dynat)

Alpharius (He hides in units, Has an ID spear with armourbane which makes him DESTROY Mechanicum lists, Plus he buffs your guys with PE everything)

Thats what you need for the basics

Very impressive and fluffy list Dante (an infiltrated Blood Angel amongst infiltraitors)!

Chaz,

For my Tank Hunters, I think they are already well armed to do their job in 1500pts fights : 12" with the Phobos, disembark then charge for 10 Melta Bombs attacks.

You're right about some Plasma help against TEQ/MEQ/Low AV and I could give 2 of them to a Veterans Squad in a Rhino to shoot by the hatch while moving protected (even with AV 11, better than nothing).

BTW I have a big question about Snipers : In the BRB, they always wound on 4+ and count as STR 4 against vehicles but how to read this with Plasma which already wounds on 2+ and can glance AV 10 on 3+?

commander dante wrote:
I use the Headhunter RoW with Alpharius in 1750+ points games (25% rule)
I use...
Armillis Dynat (All round HQ with a rule that gives you +1 on the vehicle damage chart, allowing you to reliably pop tanks with basic infantry)
Exodus (4 Shot Sniper Rifle? WHY ARENT YOU TAKING THIS!)

2x Headhunter Killteams (A reliable unit that has Power Daggers, dont be afraid to charge them into combat)
2x Recon Squads w/ Power Armoura nd shotguns (soak up some wounds for exodus and dynat)

Alpharius (He hides in units, Has an ID spear with armourbane which makes him DESTROY Mechanicum lists, Plus he buffs your guys with PE everything)

Thats what you need for the basics

sorry dante, in 30k you need a minimum of 2,000 points before you can even bring a LoW :( but that could be resolved with some terminators, or other such troop to give you a durable 'foot hold' of sorts.

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:
I use the Headhunter RoW with Alpharius in 1750+ points games (25% rule)
I use...
Armillis Dynat (All round HQ with a rule that gives you +1 on the vehicle damage chart, allowing you to reliably pop tanks with basic infantry)
Exodus (4 Shot Sniper Rifle? WHY ARENT YOU TAKING THIS!)

2x Headhunter Killteams (A reliable unit that has Power Daggers, dont be afraid to charge them into combat)
2x Recon Squads w/ Power Armoura nd shotguns (soak up some wounds for exodus and dynat)

Alpharius (He hides in units, Has an ID spear with armourbane which makes him DESTROY Mechanicum lists, Plus he buffs your guys with PE everything)

Thats what you need for the basics

sorry dante, in 30k you need a minimum of 2,000 points before you can even bring a LoW :( but that could be resolved with some terminators, or other such troop to give you a durable 'foot hold' of sorts.

Since when did you need 2000 points?
I know about the 25% rule (meaning you would need 1661 points minimum to field him)

commander dante wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:
I use the Headhunter RoW with Alpharius in 1750+ points games (25% rule)
I use...
Armillis Dynat (All round HQ with a rule that gives you +1 on the vehicle damage chart, allowing you to reliably pop tanks with basic infantry)
Exodus (4 Shot Sniper Rifle? WHY ARENT YOU TAKING THIS!)

2x Headhunter Killteams (A reliable unit that has Power Daggers, dont be afraid to charge them into combat)
2x Recon Squads w/ Power Armoura nd shotguns (soak up some wounds for exodus and dynat)

Alpharius (He hides in units, Has an ID spear with armourbane which makes him DESTROY Mechanicum lists, Plus he buffs your guys with PE everything)

Thats what you need for the basics

sorry dante, in 30k you need a minimum of 2,000 points before you can even bring a LoW :( but that could be resolved with some terminators, or other such troop to give you a durable 'foot hold' of sorts.

Since when did you need 2000 points?
I know about the 25% rule (meaning you would need 1661 points minimum to field him)

from the crusade list red book: "Availability: In a battles in the age of Darkness game of 2,000 points or greater, Lords of War selections will be available to an army based upon the specific Force...." Pg. 8

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:
I use the Headhunter RoW with Alpharius in 1750+ points games (25% rule)
I use...
Armillis Dynat (All round HQ with a rule that gives you +1 on the vehicle damage chart, allowing you to reliably pop tanks with basic infantry)
Exodus (4 Shot Sniper Rifle? WHY ARENT YOU TAKING THIS!)

2x Headhunter Killteams (A reliable unit that has Power Daggers, dont be afraid to charge them into combat)
2x Recon Squads w/ Power Armoura nd shotguns (soak up some wounds for exodus and dynat)

Alpharius (He hides in units, Has an ID spear with armourbane which makes him DESTROY Mechanicum lists, Plus he buffs your guys with PE everything)

Thats what you need for the basics

sorry dante, in 30k you need a minimum of 2,000 points before you can even bring a LoW :( but that could be resolved with some terminators, or other such troop to give you a durable 'foot hold' of sorts.

Since when did you need 2000 points?
I know about the 25% rule (meaning you would need 1661 points minimum to field him)

from the crusade list red book: "Availability: In a battles in the age of Darkness game of 2,000 points or greater, Lords of War selections will be available to an army based upon the specific Force...." Pg. 8

Well gak, I also did not realise it had to be 2000 points (just thought it had to be 25%).
Also dante, curious how you deal with significant amounts of armour with all that, going to get shot up a fair bit before being close enough to do anything to it in combat.