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Note: This applies to 40k, just so you know.

Recently, my friends were playing some matches, one of them was proxying an IG army, and he used the "Take Aim" order. Or something like that. He said that when he uses this order, all to hit rolls become Precision Shots, and that allows him (the attacker) to choose which model/s takes the hit, not the defender, who would normally choose (I don't know about that either). But then the other guy said that the Precision Shot rule only takes effect if the attacker rolled a six. (In case your wondering, we also don't have an IG codex, we just used the info we already knew)

So yeah, the question is, what exactly does the Precision Shot special rule do?

The rulebook oddly enough covers this.

defender doesnt normally allocate wounds, it is closest model that does so. a lot of poepl think precision shots are allocating "hits", when they arent, theyre just wounds with a special rule that lets the shjooting player decide who they get allocated to, as opposed to following thenormal wound allocaiton rules.

Asking on a forum really isn't a great replacement for actually having and referring to the rules - you'll almost certainly have more fun more easily and won't be breaking forum rules by asking for the rules

SixT4Pixels wrote:
Note: This applies to 40k, just so you know.

Recently, my friends were playing some matches, one of them was proxying an IG army, and he used the "Take Aim" order. Or something like that. He said that when he uses this order, all to hit rolls become Precision Shots, and that allows him (the attacker) to choose which model/s takes the hit, not the defender, who would normally choose (I don't know about that either). But then the other guy said that the Precision Shot rule only takes effect if the attacker rolled a six. (In case your wondering, we also don't have an IG codex, we just used the info we already knew)

So yeah, the question is, what exactly does the Precision Shot special rule do?

You got the "Take Aim!" order right - it gives Precision Shot to the unit ordered around. Precision Shot itself is explained in the BRB, I assume you have access to that, so just look it up.

It's worth checking the codex... the rulebook covers the base precision shot rules (6's are counted as precision shots) but there are a few exceptions which state that ANY hit is counted as a precision shot rather than just a six (i.e. Eldar Pathfinders and Vindicare assassins)

So as I say it worth checking the AM codex to see if there is such a stipulation

Edit: Deleted because I was being a tool.

Precision shot is one of those fun little rules where both the rule and the effect of the rule have the same name(gets hot is another). This can lead to some questions(like this one).

Thankfully in this case the Take Aim order is perfectly clear that it grants the rule.

The Emperor's Benediction relic bolt pistol for a lord Commissar is also clear in this edition(ot was a point of contention in 6th when the codex came out as all characters already had the precision shot rule) as it is a special rule on the pistol with no further instructions or notes and is thus the special rule as well.

In short: a unit that receives the take aim order still requires a 6 to hit in order to place those wounds(and those to wounds should be made separately for fairly obvious reasons).

X

Incorrect. Read page 169

"wounds from precision shots are..."

Not hits. Wounds.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Incorrect. Read page 169

"wounds from precision shots are..."

Not hits. Wounds.

What exactly are you saying is wrong? Dave is correct in his example.

No, theyre not

Theyre saying you allocate the precision "Hit", when actually you roll to wound and then you allocate the Wound (note their parens at the end - saying you roll to wound for that model)

let's modify the example daveh974 gave us:

Example: 5 guys with bolt guns have the precision shot rule.

They fire and have 1 miss, 3 hits, and one hit that was a '6'.

Roll to-wound against the Majority Toughness of the unit for the 3 hits, and then a separate to-wound roll for the '6', again, against the Majority Toughness. (for this example assume they all cause a wound)

Apply the 3 wounds to the models in the unit closest to the shooter, doing saves as appropriate.

Apply the '6' hit/wound to whomever the shooter wants, that model now takes saves as appropriate.

Modify it to be correct

Roll to wound for all 4 hits, including the "6" to hit, using majority toughness as normal.

Allocate any successful wounding rolls frmo the 3 to hits that were not precision using the normal rules

IFF the 6 to hit successfully wounds, allocate this to whoever you want in the unit. THat model takes saves as appropriate.

Yeah, thats what was said.

Sigh. No, it wasnt

"The 6 gets allocated to maybe the missile launcher guy in the back of the group or whoever you want to pick off (then you roll to wound/armor saves for him separately)"

First bold: this is stating the HIT gets allocated. It does not. A HIT is not allocated even for precision shots

The second bold reinforces this (common) error, by suggesting you roll to wound for the model separately. You dont. You stil roll to wound against the unit, and ONLY IF the precision hit wounds do you then allocate the wound.

ALL this chanegs is the WOUND allcoation process. Nothing to do with HITS at all.

Being a Precision Hit, the Wound would be rolled for separately for it, and then allocated separately for it, much like any To-Wounds of 6 from the Sniper. This is detailed in the Wound Pool section which tells you to separate Wounds with different Special Rules applied to them.

He may have missed the successfully Wounding part of the 6 Hit, but that was all he missed. At worst, he separated the Precision Hit out early to make sure that the Precision Hit did or did not Rend.

Yet you still wound against the untis majority toughness. Stating you wound him "separately" suggests youre suddenly wounding vs a model.

He separate it out by ALLOCATING A HIT. Not a Wound. That is just flat out wrong.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yet you still wound against the untis majority toughness. Stating you wound him "separately" suggests youre suddenly wounding vs a model.

He separate it out by ALLOCATING A HIT. Not a Wound. That is just flat out wrong.

But, as long as you use majority toughness, does it really matter?

As long as you use majority toughness to wound, it will not alter anything whatsoever.

In your example:

I roll 10 dice and get two 6's.
I tell you I am allocating those two hits to your missile launcher.
You tell me "No you're not, you need to wound first."
I say OK and roll two dice to wound, getting one wound. Take a wild guess where that wound is going?

I have to roll the precision shot rolls separately, but telling you where they are going before or after I roll the dice changes nothing. Now, if I tried to precision shot them onto a T3 model in a squad of all T4 models and then try to use T3 as the factor to wound, that would be wrong.

Because wounds are allocated one at a time.

Doing it the literal wrong way round leads people wondering to what to,do when their two hits turn to two wounds and both saves are failed. Does just one guy die? If two, which one? Etc

It's just easiest to follow th utterly unambiguous rule.

Of course you do have to roll the to-wound on the "6('s)" sepatately from the rest of the hits, but other than that Nos is correct about the allocating the wound, not the hit(not that it usually matters but could via special rules).

As I said , it often ends with confusion. Like people thinking you can on,y "allocate" one hit, or that excess "hits" (that wounded) are somehow lost

Doing as the rule says resolves all issues and is stunningly simple as well...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As I said , it often ends with confusion. Like people thinking you can on,y "allocate" one hit, or that excess "hits" (that wounded) are somehow lost

Doing as the rule says resolves all issues and is stunningly simple as well...

So you're saying:

I roll 10 dice and get 3 6's. All 6's manage to wound.
You're saying you allocate one wound. Roll the save die.
Allocate the next. Roll the save.

OK. I can see where that would make a difference.

Yes, that's also what the rulebook says.

Literally all precision shot is doing is changing wound allocation from "closest" to "model I choose". Nothing else

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, that's also what the rulebook says.

Literally all precision shot is doing is changing wound allocation from "closest" to "model I choose". Nothing else

It also changes the Wound Pool you are allocating from, remember.

True, but that's better than making up hit-allocation rules...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
True, but that's better than making up hit-allocation rules...

While not presented in the proper order, I do believe that the end result would have been the same over all.

 Charistoph wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
True, but that's better than making up hit-allocation rules...

While not presented in the proper order, I do believe that the end result would have been the same over all.

Outside of effects on a model hit(which is incredibly rare); it is the same general effect. But any special rule that details models hit(again, most "hit" special rules are "units hit") won't get allocated until after the precision shot wounds(so no wound would be no models hit; oddly enough).

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
True, but that's better than making up hit-allocation rules...

While not presented in the proper order, I do believe that the end result would have been the same over all.

Outside of effects on a model hit(which is incredibly rare); it is the same general effect. But any special rule that details models hit(again, most "hit" special rules are "units hit") won't get allocated until after the precision shot wounds(so no wound would be no models hit; oddly enough).

Indeed. Which is why it is important if there are any To Wound effects associated with the Precision Hit, that the Precision Hits be separated out for potential Wound Pool separations. Technically speaking, a Precision Hit is already in a separate Wound Pool (even without a Rending possibility), all it needs is to be successful at Wounding to be finish the separation.

Just gonna leave this here:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Warhammer_40000_Rules_EN.pdf
because precision shots are definitely on the to hit rolls, not the to wound, and saw multiple assertions to the opposite.

Yes, the trigger is the to-hit. The effect is if "that" hit wounds you allocate the wound.