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Just went to pick up my hardback copy of Deathwatch: Ignition from my local GW store (1 of 2 in the capital city, btw my flag is messed up im Austria), of course it was approx half hour before closing time (7 p.m.; I went there around 6:30 pm)

There was absolutely nobody in the store except the lone redshirt at the counter. I kinda felt sorry for him.

So anyway, I know GW has switched to one man stores for about 2 or 3 years now, my question is how well are the GW stores doing? I know it varies vastly from location to location, but is it true that there is a general trend of fewer and fewer people coming to GW stores to play?

I remember in the mid and late 2000s (I was introduced to the hobby in 2004) the GW stores were almost packed (we had people playing on almost all available tables, there were dudes painting at the painting station, 2 or 3 customers chatting with the redshirts at the counter etc.)

What led to the fall?

The rise in quality of minis the competition has to offer?

GW's increasing price hikes?

The rise of discount online third party retailers who sell GW stuff so you can just order from the internet?

A new generation growing up even more with video games replacing traditional tabletop as entertainment?

Economic crisis meaning less disposable income for people in general?

The excuse I heard for there being only one staff member in stores from one of my local GW store managers was that there was some restructuring around the time the GFC hit, and one of the big ways they saved money was to bring it down to one staff member per store. I'm sure there are other reasons (such as some of the ones you mentioned) that have also contributed to the situation, but from what I can gather, the GFC was the driving force.

As for how successful these stores are, it really is a store-by-store basis. For reasons of privacy I won't get into the details, but for the two stores I go to: you'd expect one of them to be doing better because it has more parking, it's easy to get to by car and public transport (arguably) and it's a bigger store with more tables (which are also larger) as well as more painting tables and displays. But in fact it's the smaller store that's done better.

So as I said, I reckon it's a store-by-store basis with success, and the one-staff shops have their roots in the GFC.

 Sir Arun wrote:


A new generation growing up even more with video games replacing traditional tabletop as entertainment?

Tabletop gaming is at an all-time peak despite the first few Digital Natives generations already present

Yeah, tabletop hobby gaming as a whole is very healthy:

http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/32102/hobby-games-market-climbs-880-million

Letting the in-store community/tournament scene die, is what is killing them, there is no need to go to the store anymore, If GW is just a "miniature" company then the online store will suffice.

I think the success of a GW is dependant on more than having one man operating the store. The problem comes when the store is reasonably busy and there's still only 1 man and he can't keep up with it and they really need to expand to more operators. Also when the store can't stay open late due to lack of support, but that depends on the manager, my local store manages to stay open reasonably late on thursdays and fridays (not super late, but most stores aren't open past 9pm anyway).

My local GW has been revived the past few years, it surprised me but most nights you can go in there and find people at the very least painting stuff and occasionally using the tables.

But the weird hours due to having only 1 person operating the store and also the long wait if he suddenly has to serve multiple customers is quite annoying. It's largely stopped me buying stuff because a couple of times I was just stopping in quickly to grab something on my way to or from work and had to wait ages to get served or the store wasn't even open.

It has been pointed out to me that the question may not be 'Is a one man store better than a fully staffed store?', but rather 'Is a one man store better than no store?'.

That it is the idea of brick and mortar gaming stores, specializing in all GW, all the time, are a viable business.

Cutting the stores down to one man did not make them more successful, it just made them more profitable - or even... just profitable.

I actually think that diversifying their stores might have worked better than eliminating staff....

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


I actually think that diversifying their stores might have worked better than eliminating staff....

Carrying the merchandise that they license would be a nice start. It's funny because my local GW store manager bemoans how he doesn't have enough space for product and not nearly enough space for tables, but even he (mirroring the schitzophrenic nature of GW in regards to their retail strategy) will then turn around and say, "Well, this is a modeling store, not a gaming store." No wonder they are re-branding the stores to just say Warhammer. "What games?"

It's just a mess and supposedly whatever organized play they have coming down the pipes will not be in GW stores, but independent stores only. I was speechless when he told me that.

I talk to him about the company and store issues all the time as I used to manage that store directly before him, so I get a little bit of "insider" still, but they still don't tell their people squat (hehe) about what is going on. Said really.

Well, GW's stores are losing money, so I suppose it'd be something of a stretch to say they're doing great.

 Sir Arun wrote:


The rise in quality of minis the competition has to offer?

GW's increasing price hikes?

The rise of discount online third party retailers who sell GW stuff so you can just order from the internet?

Economic crisis meaning less disposable income for people in general?

I think all of these, plus GW's lack of involvement in the community really hurt them. The ease of finding those discount retailers and competing models online is also a factor, since while a lot of people had the Internet in 2004, it was nowhere near what it is today.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
It has been pointed out to me that the question may not be 'Is a one man store better than a fully staffed store?', but rather 'Is a one man store better than no store?'.

I'm not sure anymore. The 1-man stores don't carry anything you can't get from an independent or any other store, and you often need to order in anyway as they keep such little stock. So from that point of view it's minimal value, at best. I reached a point quickly where the capital city GW store didn't stock anything I wanted (mostly metal guard stuff at the time), so it was only of value for paints and everything else needed to be special ordered.

Then there's availability of the store; the 1-man stores can't be open as much as a 2-man store, you can't really play long games in them as you need to get kicked out for lunch and any bathroom breaks. You can't guarantee it's open at any given point, so long trips to it on spec are a gamble (I made a 30 minute drive to buy a new army to find it closed, for instance).

Then there's the availability of the staff; the big advantage is that you have an expert to ask questions and get help with. That's great, but if there is another customer in you have to split time, so you may be waiting ages or keep getting interrupted. Since the 1-man stores seem to be staffed more and more by people who have no hobby experience, the value of that assistance is minimal.

So I guess it's better than no store at all, by a small margin. But it's far poorer than a real store, and doesn't provide anything I couldn't get from an FLGS or a shelf at a craft store.

Would I mourn my nearest 1-man GW closing? To be honest, it'd probably take me months to notice it's so hidden away. I've bought a total of 2 paints from them, and I can get them from a closer independent anyway. At least the multi-man has gaming tables.

Lack of stock is what makes the stores useless for me. I buy whole armies and that's impossible now.

What is the real question is .. Why go to a Games Workshop store if your FLGS stocks the same?
I lived just a few hours away from the Memphis battle bunker but never went to it... Why??
There is nothing special there to draw me in.. If they sold Forge World or had a set up like Nottingham,
I would consider going..
One man store is trying to reduce over head... but what about higher sales to make up for over head..

I live in Chicago and I have only been to 1 or 2 stores that really needed more then one person to run.

One was located in a very busy mall (not sure if they are still there or not) and the other was in a strip mall. The one located in a strip mall was busy when I was there, not sure if its like that every weekend, but it could definitely be handled by one person, the only thing I would worry about would be theft especially when having to play cashier.

The other stores I've been to were small enough where if you needed someone to help you... you probably shouldnt be a manager lol

Yes I do see the managers by there lonesome but thats usually during the week, not the weekend when games are going on.

I think you underestimate how hard it is to do *anything* when you're the only one there.

You have to close the store to take a dump
You can't visit the stock room when a customer is in
You can't supervise games whilst dealing with a customer
You can't deal with cash/stock/book-keeping when a customer is in
You can't tidy up or clean when a customer is in
You can't handle more than 1 customer at a time

Basically, you're pinned to the register for all but the briefest intervals. You can't really do much of the above when the store is open, because what happens if a customer comes in whilst you're already in the back rummaging for stock?

Literally the only other stores I've encountered with a single staff member are mall kiosks (where they usually have a neighbour to cover for them), or a sandwich shop that was really struggling and couldn't afford a 2nd staff member.

And the phone, God, don't forget the bloody phone!!

 Genoside07 wrote:
What is the real question is .. Why go to a Games Workshop store if your FLGS stocks the same?
I lived just a few hours away from the Memphis battle bunker but never went to it... Why??
There is nothing special there to draw me in.. If they sold Forge World or had a set up like Nottingham,
I would consider going..
One man store is trying to reduce over head... but what about higher sales to make up for over head..

Price isn't the only factor in purchasing. Personally I value availability and convenience more on some purchases as I find I have more money than time. That is not always the case though.

Its a truism but a GW store is going to push 40k/AoS so that's perfect if you want that strongly represented in your group. It is less certain what support an independent will give your particular game system or for how long if something new comes out.

Will one person stores continue - yeah I suppose so. They've been about for a while now and don't seem to have drastically changed anything. ONe person is a perfectly manageable model (hell most small shops have been since time immemorial!) plus I don't imagine GW are so staid that they wont make keytime staff available for store that have busy periods. That's certainly true of the 3-4 GWs near me where you can expect an extra guy at weekends.

Herzlos wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
It has been pointed out to me that the question may not be 'Is a one man store better than a fully staffed store?', but rather 'Is a one man store better than no store?'.

I'm not sure anymore. The 1-man stores don't carry anything you can't get from an independent or any other store, and you often need to order in anyway as they keep such little stock. So from that point of view it's minimal value, at best. I reached a point quickly where the capital city GW store didn't stock anything I wanted (mostly metal guard stuff at the time), so it was only of value for paints and everything else needed to be special ordered.

Then there's availability of the store; the 1-man stores can't be open as much as a 2-man store, you can't really play long games in them as you need to get kicked out for lunch and any bathroom breaks. You can't guarantee it's open at any given point, so long trips to it on spec are a gamble (I made a 30 minute drive to buy a new army to find it closed, for instance).

Then there's the availability of the staff; the big advantage is that you have an expert to ask questions and get help with. That's great, but if there is another customer in you have to split time, so you may be waiting ages or keep getting interrupted. Since the 1-man stores seem to be staffed more and more by people who have no hobby experience, the value of that assistance is minimal.

So I guess it's better than no store at all, by a small margin. But it's far poorer than a real store, and doesn't provide anything I couldn't get from an FLGS or a shelf at a craft store.

Would I mourn my nearest 1-man GW closing? To be honest, it'd probably take me months to notice it's so hidden away. I've bought a total of 2 paints from them, and I can get them from a closer independent anyway. At least the multi-man has gaming tables.

More 'better from a corporate standpoint' than 'better from a consumer standpoint'.

From a consumer standpoint... I will take the general FLGS over the dedicated GW store - whether corporate or independent.

My area now has two dedicated GW stores, one is independent, doing fairly well... and GW did what GW does, and moved into the area..

Now neither store is doing well.

They did not grow the market, merely split it between two stores.

The Auld Grump

GW will no doubt sink some cash into the crisis to outlive the FLGS... kinda sad to see that sort of behaviour

I'd imagine GW would just close down it's own store due to lack of profts, and re-open in a few years when the other store starts doing well again.

That said, it's entirely possible it's not the GW store that's causing the problems, and the local area is just going off Warhamer.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
[More 'better from a corporate standpoint' than 'better from a consumer standpoint'.

Yeah I guess, if you work on the basis that the customer will go to lengths to buy stuff anyway, then it makes sense to pay as little as possible for your sales channel. But then if customers are doing that work why not just point them at the webstore for even more profit?

Herzlos wrote:
I'd imagine GW would just close down it's own store due to lack of profts, and re-open in a few years when the other store starts doing well again.

That said, it's entirely possible it's not the GW store that's causing the problems, and the local area is just going off Warhamer.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
[More 'better from a corporate standpoint' than 'better from a consumer standpoint'.

Yeah I guess, if you work on the basis that the customer will go to lengths to buy stuff anyway, then it makes sense to pay as little as possible for your sales channel. But then if customers are doing that work why not just point them at the webstore for even more profit?

Of course, there is also the fact that it means that they are treating their retailers as competitors.

Moving a one man store into an area that already has a successful dedicated store, to chisel out that extra 25% profit... is kind of a move.

When it results in both stores going under it is a stupid move.

The Auld Grump

-

 Bottle wrote:
I think they are moving away from one-man stores where they can. My local is a 4-man store currently which is great!

I'd love to see that strategy move across the pond.

No because running a successful retail store is a different business than running a game company. Disney sold off all their retail stores to children's place because they didn't want to be in the retail business. Hasbro shut down their games stores too. If two big companies like Hasbro and Disney can't do it, what makes GW think they can?

Having a store that sells one product in a niche market and thinking it can be profitable is insane. What GW needs to do is look at the stores like a marketing tool. If it breaks even then keep it. They will expose new customers to the brand and even if people don't buy at the store they might buy elsewhere.

I would personally shut down most stores except in high profile cities and focus the money and attention on supporting local game stores. Hire merchandisers who travel to local stores, run games and demos for the store owners, help the owners merchandise their products, give out promotional materials. Also hit the conventions and do similar things there.

We wrote:
No because running a successful retail store is a different business than running a game company. Disney sold off all their retail stores to children's place because they didn't want to be in the retail business. Hasbro shut down their games stores too. If two big companies like Hasbro and Disney can't do it, what makes GW think they can?

Having a store that sells one product in a niche market and thinking it can be profitable is insane. What GW needs to do is look at the stores like a marketing tool. If it breaks even then keep it. They will expose new customers to the brand and even if people don't buy at the store they might buy elsewhere.

I would personally shut down most stores except in high profile cities and focus the money and attention on supporting local game stores. Hire merchandisers who travel to local stores, run games and demos for the store owners, help the owners merchandise their products, give out promotional materials. Also hit the conventions and do similar things there.

I would agree with this, there isn't really ever a reason to go to a GW store. They don't offer anything a FLGS doesn't offer. Most don't even let you game there.

I wonder though if GW has trapped themselves. A lot of LGS don't like them and have stopped selling their products or supporting their games. It used to be there was always at least one game of 40k or WFB being played with a few stalwarts. It seems like now though, most of the stores I go to are just ex players who are salty as feth. Even the guys throwing dice around pretty much acknowledge being kinda fed up with GW. If they closed all their stores down, I don't know if the LGS would be welcoming them back with open arms. Sure there will always be supporters, but the market opened up to competition now and isn't likely to close.

My thing is: why bother going into a GW when the online store, and indeed discount retailers, have a way better selection? You can also save money.

The only time I find myself going into a GW is when I want a kit asap, and my LGS which is close to me doesn't have it. Then I'll drive the extra 20 mins to buy what I'd like to work on that day.

As far as the gaming goes, imo the staff were pretty strict with what can be done in the store. When my friends and I used to chill at the local GW to use their tables (we always bought something, even if it was a paint pot or whatever), the manager was a douche.

We couldn't use Forge World stuff, if it wasn't 3-paints + based it couldn't be on the tables - even if we assembled and bought it that day we couldn't play it to try it out. Don't dare discuss buying models off eBay or online trading sites/swaps. Other game systems were off-limits as well. Rules clarification? Don't ask, they aren't 'walking rulebooks' as it was put to us one time. Eventually I just bought a realm of battle board, and overnight they lost our attendance in bulk. Jerkoffs.

Anyway, that location closed last year. A new store opened up and it's a one-man operation with a new fellow who seems cool enough. Hours are all over the place though, and they seem to change on a monthly basis (updated often on the FB page).

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:


As far as the gaming goes, imo the staff were pretty strict with what can be done in the store. When my friends and I used to chill at the local GW to use their tables (we always bought something, even if it was a paint pot or whatever), the manager was a douche.

We couldn't use Forge World stuff, if it wasn't 3-paints + based it couldn't be on the tables - even if we assembled and bought it that day we couldn't play it to try it out. Don't dare discuss buying models off eBay or online trading sites/swaps. Other game systems were off-limits as well. Rules clarification? Don't ask, they aren't 'walking rulebooks' as it was put to us one time. Eventually I just bought a realm of battle board, and overnight they lost our attendance in bulk. Jerkoffs.

Anyway, that location closed last year. A new store opened up and it's a one-man operation with a new fellow who seems cool enough. Hours are all over the place though, and they seem to change on a monthly basis (updated often on the FB page).

To be fair, essentially all the stuff you listed is manager dependent, but I understand where you are coming from. I travel 50 minutes to buy/paint/play at a GW store because I can't walk into an LGS and do the same there without someone trying to grind their +1 Axes of GW Hate on me.

I think one man stores where a large part of your customer base are minors is unwise. There's all sorts of things can go wrong there.

A good indy store will blow the pants off a GW store in regards to service and play support. Always support them 1st if able to is my honest opion on the situation. I wouldn't realy be that upset if my local GW store closed down. I would just have to drive a extra 5-10 min to go to the indy. I only shop/play at the GW because it's closer to me.

Herzlos wrote:
I think you underestimate how hard it is to do *anything* when you're the only one there.

You have to close the store to take a dump
You can't visit the stock room when a customer is in
You can't supervise games whilst dealing with a customer
You can't deal with cash/stock/book-keeping when a customer is in
You can't tidy up or clean when a customer is in
You can't handle more than 1 customer at a time

Basically, you're pinned to the register for all but the briefest intervals. You can't really do much of the above when the store is open, because what happens if a customer comes in whilst you're already in the back rummaging for stock?

Literally the only other stores I've encountered with a single staff member are mall kiosks (where they usually have a neighbour to cover for them), or a sandwich shop that was really struggling and couldn't afford a 2nd staff member.

Have you ever visited a GW store before?

You have to close the store to take a dump - Hang a sign "Be back in 15 mins" They all do this, or hold it in until lunch.
You can't visit the stock room when a customer is in - 98% of GW's 1 man store inventory is on the shelves.
You can't supervise games whilst dealing with a customer - You dont need to supervise a game. Your job is to sell, you can answer questions when they come up and play judge, but this is not their primary job.
You can't deal with cash/stock/book-keeping when a customer is in - Book keeping is done end of day with no customers in store. Stock is out on shelves already a mention.
You can't tidy up or clean when a customer is in - They are hardware stores, cleaning can be done end of day when everyone leaves.
You can't handle more than 1 customer at a time - Unless its the weekend yuo dont really see to many people in the store at once, and most of the time people are just looking anyways.

Basically, you're pinned to the register for all but the briefest intervals. You can't really do much of the above when the store is open, because what happens if a customer comes in whilst you're already in the back rummaging for stock? You are not pinned to the register, there isnt an overflow of customers piling into GW stores and buying out there stock. The only thing the store manager would need to go to the back room for is Web orders. These should all be labeled ready to go before the store opens. So it should take the manager 30 seconds to grab and go.

I've worked in hardware stores that are easily 100x bigger then small 1 man GW stores with only 3 people. 1 cashier, myself and the manager and have a lot more people to deal with then a GW store. Like i said, a 1 man GW store is just that and shouldnt need more then 1 to run it.