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just what the title says really?

does anyone know of a way you can do that?

Skyshield Landing Pad with the "Ready for Takeoff" upgrade.

 Quanar wrote:
Skyshield Landing Pad with the "Ready for Takeoff" upgrade.

ahh thanks mate! I don't have that supplement thanks so much.. is that the only way?

I don't have any of the most recent SW releases, so I've no idea if there's anything in those.

ConanMan wrote:
just what the title says really?

does anyone know of a way you can do that?

Let it transport something that is allowed to arrive on Turn 1 - Grey Knights and Ravenwing Dark Angels might do the trick. The magic behind it is that if you have a unit A (optional: with 1-n ICs attached) loaded in Transport B, you can let unit A arrive and transport B will tag along - and vice versa. Prime example: Drop Pods.

@nekooni that sounds plausible can you elaoborate?

you are saying ally with Grey Knights put them in the storm wolf then add (say) 6 wolf guard terminators?

The rules allow you to make a combined roll forvthibfs to arrive, said rules do not allow you to ignore those things individual restrictions, or rather there is no permission to allow something to arrive when it cannot by saying it is arriving with something that can because the unit that cannot be arriving is not eligible to arrive and cannot attempt to arrive yet so cannot be grouped in a combined roll yet.

ConanMan wrote:
@nekooni that sounds plausible can you elaoborate?

you are saying ally with Grey Knights put them in the storm wolf then add (say) 6 wolf guard terminators?

Is a stormwolf allowed to carry more than one unit?

blaktoof wrote:
The rules allow you to make a combined roll forvthibfs to arrive, said rules do not allow you to ignore those things individual restrictions, or rather there is no permission to allow something to arrive when it cannot by saying it is arriving with something that can because the unit that cannot be arriving is not eligible to arrive and cannot attempt to arrive yet so cannot be grouped in a combined roll yet.

good lord

ConanMan wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The rules allow you to make a combined roll forvthibfs to arrive, said rules do not allow you to ignore those things individual restrictions, or rather there is no permission to allow something to arrive when it cannot by saying it is arriving with something that can because the unit that cannot be arriving is not eligible to arrive and cannot attempt to arrive yet so cannot be grouped in a combined roll yet.

good lord

I will put it in more simple terms for you.

You can make 1 combined roll for things that are allowed to arrive from reserves if they are arriving together.

instead of rolling for things which are arriving together each separately you make one roll for all of them.

not all the things are allowed to arrive from reserve yet so you cannot combine them into such a roll. The combined reserves rule doesn't grant permission to ignore that things cannot arrive yet, it just allows you to make 1 roll for things that can arrive which are arriving together.

blaktoof wrote:

ConanMan wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The rules allow you to make a combined roll forvthibfs to arrive, said rules do not allow you to ignore those things individual restrictions, or rather there is no permission to allow something to arrive when it cannot by saying it is arriving with something that can because the unit that cannot be arriving is not eligible to arrive and cannot attempt to arrive yet so cannot be grouped in a combined roll yet.

good lord

I will put it in more simple terms for you.

You can make 1 combined roll for things that are allowed to arrive from reserves if they are arriving together.

instead of rolling for things which are arriving together each separately you make one roll for all of them.

not all the things are allowed to arrive from reserve yet so you cannot combine them into such a roll. The combined reserves rule doesn't grant permission to ignore that things cannot arrive yet, it just allows you to make 1 roll for things that can arrive which are arriving together.

Actually this is the opposite.

You make a reserve roll for one unit of the combined reserves, and the other unit arrives with it.
Therefore if your Grey Knights can roll for reserves on T1, then if they are in the stormwolf, you can choose to roll for them, and both arrive together.

blaktoof wrote:

ConanMan wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The rules allow you to make a combined roll forvthibfs to arrive, said rules do not allow you to ignore those things individual restrictions, or rather there is no permission to allow something to arrive when it cannot by saying it is arriving with something that can because the unit that cannot be arriving is not eligible to arrive and cannot attempt to arrive yet so cannot be grouped in a combined roll yet.

good lord

I will put it in more simple terms for you.

You can make 1 combined roll for things that are allowed to arrive from reserves if they are arriving together.

instead of rolling for things which are arriving together each separately you make one roll for all of them.

not all the things are allowed to arrive from reserve yet so you cannot combine them into such a roll. The combined reserves rule doesn't grant permission to ignore that things cannot arrive yet, it just allows you to make 1 roll for things that can arrive which are arriving together.

So Drop pods cant arrive on turn one if they carry regular troops? Would you mind pointing me to the page you're basing this on?

harkequin wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

ConanMan wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The rules allow you to make a combined roll forvthibfs to arrive, said rules do not allow you to ignore those things individual restrictions, or rather there is no permission to allow something to arrive when it cannot by saying it is arriving with something that can because the unit that cannot be arriving is not eligible to arrive and cannot attempt to arrive yet so cannot be grouped in a combined roll yet.

good lord

I will put it in more simple terms for you.

You can make 1 combined roll for things that are allowed to arrive from reserves if they are arriving together.

instead of rolling for things which are arriving together each separately you make one roll for all of them.

not all the things are allowed to arrive from reserve yet so you cannot combine them into such a roll. The combined reserves rule doesn't grant permission to ignore that things cannot arrive yet, it just allows you to make 1 roll for things that can arrive which are arriving together.

Actually this is the opposite.

You make a reserve roll for one unit of the combined reserves, and the other unit arrives with it.
Therefore if your Grey Knights can roll for reserves on T1, then if they are in the stormwolf, you can choose to roll for them, and both arrive together.

^^^this, as long as the transport has the deepstrike rule as well.

@blaktoof I don't think conanman struggled to understand your post because of any deficiency on their part. The post was poorly written, so the snide comment you made was pretty unnecessary. I'm not trying to be rude to you, or police etiquette, but I think it was a breach of Wheaton's law.

nekooni wrote:
So Drop pods cant arrive on turn one if they carry regular troops? Would you mind pointing me to the page you're basing this on?

Don't Drop Pods have a specific rule that allows this to happen?

 Happyjew wrote:

nekooni wrote:
So Drop pods cant arrive on turn one if they carry regular troops? Would you mind pointing me to the page you're basing this on?

Don't Drop Pods have a specific rule that allows this to happen?

Drop pod assault I think

For the most part I think there is an exception that allows a vehicle arriving turn one to bring the passengers but the opposite doesnt work because it doesnt have the same permission. Its possible I'm thinking of something from Scout instead of DS however.

 Happyjew wrote:
Don't Drop Pods have a specific rule that allows this to happen?

Specifically Drop Pod Assault requires Drop Pods and units embarked on them to be placed into Deep Strike Reserves, then makes half of the total number of Drop Pods automatically arrive on turn one.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Don't Drop Pods have a specific rule that allows this to happen?

Specifically Drop Pod Assault requires Drop Pods and units embarked on them to be placed into Deep Strike Reserves, then makes half of the total number of Drop Pods automatically arrive on turn one.

My Point was that Drop pod assault does not tell you that embarked units gain permission to arrive on turn 1, and if blacktoof claimed that units without permission could not arrive on turn one even though their transport could, then drop pods wouldn't work in turn one unless empty. Which would be pretty stupid. But maybe I misunderstood blacktoof.

Well in general all units have to be allowed to arrive that turn. period

BUT the special rule of the drop pods does specificaly tell you that it is possible. so this is the exeption of the general rule.

nekooni wrote:

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Don't Drop Pods have a specific rule that allows this to happen?

Specifically Drop Pod Assault requires Drop Pods and units embarked on them to be placed into Deep Strike Reserves, then makes half of the total number of Drop Pods automatically arrive on turn one.

My Point was that Drop pod assault does not tell you that embarked units gain permission to arrive on turn 1, and if blacktoof claimed that units without permission could not arrive on turn one even though their transport could, then drop pods wouldn't work in turn one unless empty. Which would be pretty stupid. But maybe I misunderstood blacktoof.

Drop pod assault tells us that we can put units in it and they can arrive turn 1.

the combined rule tells us to roll a single dice for the unit and or its independent character/transport vehicle.

Some people read this as RAI they can roll for any one of them and apply that result, regardless of other restrictions.

The same rule does not actually grant permission to ignore that things cannot arrive yet, and specifies that things must arrive together. So yes you can make a roll for one of the things possibly turn 1, but you may not have permission for the others to roll yet. As they must arrive together, you are making an assumption that the rules allow for you to ignore the restrictions normally there based on being told an operation. This however is never actually stated in any way. However the operation is written under the assumption you would be able to arrive with all of the things, and instead of rolling them separately you roll 1 dice for them to arrive together.

Another reading of the rule is that you roll 1 dice for combined things which are eligible to arrive- as they must arrive together, in the various states of what could be arriving.

ie
if there is a transport with unit + IC
or the transport + IC
or the transport +Unit
or the Unit + IC

This way does not actually try to ignore restrictions without being given specific permission to ignore said specific restrictions.

tldr- there are 2 RAI to read the combined units rule, one breaks other rules and the other does not. What you are suggesting breaks rules without being given actual written permission to do so.

again drop pod assault gives a specific way of modifying this rule.

Thanks everyone, this became really interesting pretty quickly , I am learning a lot

do bear in mind that a flyer on the skyshield cannot "fly" turn 1.

Trazer985 wrote:
do bear in mind that a flyer on the skyshield cannot "fly" turn 1.

Yep but a stormwolf has hover mode right? The plan was to somehow get 8 terminators into close combat turn 1. I think that in theory this could possibly do it.

ConanMan wrote:

Trazer985 wrote:
do bear in mind that a flyer on the skyshield cannot "fly" turn 1.

Yep but a stormwolf has hover mode right? The plan was to somehow get 8 terminators into close combat turn 1. I think that in theory this could possibly do it.

Generally its impossible to get into close combat on the first turn against normal deployment. There is a 24" gap between you and your opponent deployment zone and deisembarking out of a transport only gets you 12" forward (6" vehicle move and 6" disembark) then with a max of 12" for the charge distance that isn't enough to make B2B.

You need an extra special rule (such as being able to run and charge) to be able to charge first turn.

That's true unless a) they have infiltrated b) gone first or c) there is possibly some ambiguity as to where the sky sheild landing pad is allowed to go and stipll use ready for takeoff. I.E. it can be placed up to half way as a fortification I believe

If the gap is 24" then successfully charging out of a vehicle with the Assault Vehicle rule is perfectly doable on the first turn without any additional special rules, provided the charge distance result is a 12.

ConanMan wrote:
That's true unless a) they have infiltrated b) gone first or c) there is possibly some ambiguity as to where the sky sheild landing pad is allowed to go and stipll use ready for takeoff. I.E. it can be placed up to half way as a fortification I believe

in 7ed fortifications are deployed in your deployment zone, not ha;f the table

@Mr. Shine - They could just deploy 1mm off the deployment edge and they can't get charged

 CrownAxe wrote:
@Mr. Shine - They could just deploy 1mm off the deployment edge and they can't get charged

That's not what you said, though. That would be something like 24.04" which is completely different.

This is slightly off topic but doesn't the new wulfen formation allow charging and running in certain HQ units? I don't have it. Was just wondering.

I would still take 8 terminators in an assault craft for the 30-40 50 % chance of first turn assault and 100 % chance of 2nd turn assault. It's an interesting game twist at any rate.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
@Mr. Shine - They could just deploy 1mm off the deployment edge and they can't get charged

That's not what you said, though. That would be something like 24.04" which is completely different.

Right so in the perfect situation where everyone perfectly had deployed perfectly on the 24" line and you move perfectly straight at the unit perfectly 6" and perfectly disembakred 6" then perfectly move 12" you would technically be in b2b

But giving you know basic human error happen that will never happen (especially since your opponent can just again deliberately deploy 1mm back and mack it impossible)

I suppose, intentionally deploying a few millimetres back aside, it depends on the attitude and... particularity of the people you play with. It's happened in my games many times.