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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

The rules for Dominate:
Dominate is a malediction that targets a single enemy unit within 24". Whilst the power is in effect, the target unit must pass a Leadership test each time it attempts to Move, Manifest a Psychic Power, Shoot, Run, or Declare a Charge - if the test is failed, the action is forfeit and the unit can do nothing else that phase. A unit that fails this test when attempting to fire Overwatch does not fire any shots, but acts normally in the ensuing Fight sub-phase.

1) If a unit can cast 3 psychic powers per psychic phase, does it test once for the phase or once for each power they try to test?

2) If a unit can fire multiple weapons in the shooting phase, for instance an MC, does it test once for the phase or once for each weapon they try to shoot?

3) If a unit can split fire, does it test once for the phase or once for each target they try to shoot?

4) If a unit can make 2 shooting attacks, for instance an Anchored Stormsurge, does it test once for the phase or once for shooting attack?

5) Do you have to test for movements that aren't explicitly enumerated? For instance, Turbo-Boosting, or Assault Moves. Would Warp Spiders have to check when they try to move in their opponent's turn?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/27 13:10:40


 
   
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Astonished of Heck

tag8833 wrote:
The rules for Dominate:
Dominate is a malediction that targets a single enemy unit within 24". Whilst the power is in effect, the target unit must pass a Leadership test each time it attempts to Move, Manifest a Psychic Power, Shoot, Run, or Declare a Charge - if the test is failed, the action is forfeit and the unit can do nothing else that phase. A unit that fails this test when attempting to fire Overwatch does not fire any shots, but acts normally in the ensuing Fight sub-phase.

1) If a unit can cast 3 psychic powers per psychic phase, does it test once for the phase or once for each power they try to test?

2) If a unit can fire multiple weapons in the shooting phase, for instance an MC, does it test once for the phase or once for each weapon they try to shoot?[

3) If a unit can split fire, does it test once for the phase or once for each target they try to shoot?

4) If a unit can make 2 shooting attacks, for instance an Anchored Stormsurge, does it test once for the phase or once for shooting attack?

These are the same situations, really.

It is fairly obvious from the text you presented. "Each time" and "can do nothing else that phase" is pretty telling. Basically, if you pass, you test for the next attempt until you fail, at which point you then stop for that unit. Also, each Weapon Name group is treated as a separate attempt to Shoot.

tag8833 wrote:
5) Do you have to test for movements that are explicitly enumerated? For instance, Turbo-Boosting, or Assault Moves. Would Warp Spiders have to check when they try to move in their opponent's turn?

This is a different story. Movement is a very odd situation within 40K and there are rules that allow you to move and then there is the Movement Phase. If you consider Running a move, then it would be affected, for example. This has connections and connotations beyond just this rule. For example, there are some units that treat difficult terrain as open terrain every time they move. I haven't finalized any judgements on this, personally, so I'll leave it up to you to decide.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/26 18:42:17


Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Charistoph wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
The rules for Dominate:
Dominate is a malediction that targets a single enemy unit within 24". Whilst the power is in effect, the target unit must pass a Leadership test each time it attempts to Move, Manifest a Psychic Power, Shoot, Run, or Declare a Charge - if the test is failed, the action is forfeit and the unit can do nothing else that phase. A unit that fails this test when attempting to fire Overwatch does not fire any shots, but acts normally in the ensuing Fight sub-phase.

1) If a unit can cast 3 psychic powers per psychic phase, does it test once for the phase or once for each power they try to test?

2) If a unit can fire multiple weapons in the shooting phase, for instance an MC, does it test once for the phase or once for each weapon they try to shoot?[

3) If a unit can split fire, does it test once for the phase or once for each target they try to shoot?

4) If a unit can make 2 shooting attacks, for instance an Anchored Stormsurge, does it test once for the phase or once for shooting attack?

These are the same situations, really.

It is fairly obvious from the text you presented. "Each time" and "can do nothing else that phase" is pretty telling. Basically, if you pass, you test for the next attempt until you fail, at which point you then stop for that unit. Also, each Weapon Name group is treated as a separate attempt to Shoot.


I disagree that each Weapon Name group is treated as a separate attempt to shoot (at least for this power not sure on the whole rule as I don't have my brb with me). But as the power effects units if we counted each different weapon name needed it's own test then a squad firing flamers and bolt pistols would have to make two tests even though the "unit" is only shooting once. I feel this also means that for number 2 that MC's and crisis suits and such should only need one test to shoot all their weapons.

HIWPI would be that:

1 and 4 need a test for each and if they fail the first one they are done for the phase. Where 2 and 3 only need one test for the unit.

tag8833 wrote:
5) Do you have to test for movements that are explicitly enumerated? For instance, Turbo-Boosting, or Assault Moves. Would Warp Spiders have to check when they try to move in their opponent's turn?

This is a different story. Movement is a very odd situation within 40K and there are rules that allow you to move and then there is the Movement Phase. If you consider Running a move, then it would be affected, for example. This has connections and connotations beyond just this rule. For example, there are some units that treat difficult terrain as open terrain every time they move. I haven't finalized any judgements on this, personally, so I'll leave it up to you to decide.


First of all running is covered in the power as needing a test so regardless of if you think it a move or not. I think that the "attempts to move" only means movement in the movement phase. So I think that turbo-boosting, assault moves and warp spiders wouldn't need to test to do.
   
Made in us
Not as Good as a Minion





Astonished of Heck

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I disagree that each Weapon Name group is treated as a separate attempt to shoot (at least for this power not sure on the whole rule as I don't have my brb with me). But as the power effects units if we counted each different weapon name needed it's own test then a squad firing flamers and bolt pistols would have to make two tests even though the "unit" is only shooting once. I feel this also means that for number 2 that MC's and crisis suits and such should only need one test to shoot all their weapons.

HIWPI would be that:

1 and 4 need a test for each and if they fail the first one they are done for the phase. Where 2 and 3 only need one test for the unit.

It is the attempt to shoot which is being addressed, not Shooting Attack or Shooting Sequence. Each time you Check Range, it tells you that any model that is out of range cannot shoot, and this is done through every cycle of Weapon Name Group. So, yeah, each Weapon Name Group is an attempt to shoot.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
5) Do you have to test for movements that are explicitly enumerated? For instance, Turbo-Boosting, or Assault Moves. Would Warp Spiders have to check when they try to move in their opponent's turn?

This is a different story. Movement is a very odd situation within 40K and there are rules that allow you to move and then there is the Movement Phase. If you consider Running a move, then it would be affected, for example. This has connections and connotations beyond just this rule. For example, there are some units that treat difficult terrain as open terrain every time they move. I haven't finalized any judgements on this, personally, so I'll leave it up to you to decide.

First of all running is covered in the power as needing a test so regardless of if you think it a move or not. I think that the "attempts to move" only means movement in the movement phase. So I think that turbo-boosting, assault moves and warp spiders wouldn't need to test to do.

As I said, it depends on how one views "move". I have seen it brought up too many times on both sides that I won't get in on it, and I don't feel like researching it in depth right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/26 22:01:10


Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

This is my feeling on it.

It appears to me that the term "Fire" or "Firing Unit" is used to describe the entirety of the "shooting attack". See the Stormsurge rules for an example of this:
"Stabilising Anchors: In your Shooting phase, in addition to firing normally.... .... In the Shooting phase of your next turn, and in each subsequent Shooting phase, a Stormsurge with its anchors deployed can fire twice. Make the second shooting attack directly after the first has been resolved."

Meanwhile the term "Shoot" is used to describe steps 3-6 of the Shooting Sequence. as per the Main rulebook page 30:
"First, select a weapon that one or more models in your unit are equipped with. The selected weapon cannot be one that the unit has shot with during this phase. All models in the unit that are equipped with the selected weapon can now shoot at the target unit with that weapon."

So I would say that each time a unit executes step 3 of the shooting sequence, they need to take a leadership test.

This doesn't feel right, as it makes this power absurdly powerful against certain units (Stormsurge).

Question #5 is a bit of a different case. I think that movement in other phases besides the shooting phase is still movement. For example, the Thrust Move by Jetpack units:
"A Jet Pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2D6" in the assault phase, even if they have shot or Run in the preceeding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Jet Pack units move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they move just as they would when using their jet packs in the Movement phase."

The same is true for Turbo-boost:
"Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their shooting phase."

So I would say that units have to check for turbo-boost, jet pack moves, and probably Warp Jump moves as well.
   
 
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