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Here's the think, I have 2 armies, 1 for orks and 1 for Ultra and I use warbikers/bike squads in both of them. However they always die in the first turn... I must be using them wrong. Could you help me by telling me what is the purose of these units and how should I use them? Until now, I'm trying to find a weak spot in the enemy lines and attack it with Big shootas or bolters but the enemy always targets them and kills them easily. Should I keep them back and use them only to capture objectives? My friends (necrons, Eldars) use them very nicely with deep strikes and nice blasts.

My first detachment is 1600pts orks with 9 warbikers in it and my other detachment is Ultramarines 1700 pts with 6 bikes

Well, bikes can be fast and tough but they are not terminator or meganob tough. Personally I use fast ground units to start a little farther back and come in the back up standard unit on turn two, using there increase speed to get to where ever you need some more muscle.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Well, bikes can be fast and tough but they are not terminator or meganob tough. Personally I use fast ground units to start a little farther back and come in the back up standard unit on turn two, using there increase speed to get to where ever you need some more muscle.

Aha!! I get it. Send da boyz first and then if they need help send the gunz xD thanks

vezirtziszarok wrote:

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Well, bikes can be fast and tough but they are not terminator or meganob tough. Personally I use fast ground units to start a little farther back and come in the back up standard unit on turn two, using there increase speed to get to where ever you need some more muscle.

Aha!! I get it. Send da boyz first and then if they need help send the gunz xD thanks

Exactly! For example, let's say you send out two squads of boys, and your opponent moves a squad of warroirs to attack each, sending the bikes to backup the more injured of the the two squads could give it the boost it needs to overcome them and win the skirmish.

They can also be VERY useful for intercepting objectives and catching run-away wounded squads and weakened characters.

vezirtziszarok wrote:
Here's the think, I have 2 armies, 1 for orks and 1 for Ultra and I use warbikers/bike squads in both of them. However they always die in the first turn... I must be using them wrong. Could you help me by telling me what is the purose of these units and how should I use them? Until now, I'm trying to find a weak spot in the enemy lines and attack it with Big shootas or bolters but the enemy always targets them and kills them easily. Should I keep them back and use them only to capture objectives? My friends (necrons, Eldars) use them very nicely with deep strikes and nice blasts.

My first detachment is 1600pts orks with 9 warbikers in it and my other detachment is Ultramarines 1700 pts with 6 bikes

1. Are you familiar with the jink special rule?

2. What upgrades have you purchased on your bikes?

3. What is your overall army composition?

Moved to the 40K Tactics forum.

Since bikes are so fast to get around (i.e. able to get in the enemy's face faster) people like to pick them off first. If you run your bikes up head on, they're the first units in your opponent's rapid fire/charge range. If all your other units are at least a turn away from hurting a unit, they'll obviously target the most immediate threat, your bikes.

As a DA player I often run a lot of bikes. I will say mine are more durable (that rerollable jink, praise the Emprah), but black knights especially draw a lot of fire because they are so devastating if they get into rapid fire and charge range. The best use of bikes is to hit your opponent in the flanks, hit the stuff they're keeping in the backfield that they want to keep safe, and being able to rapidly support units in other areas of the battlefield.

While you can move your bikes forward more slowly, you also have the option of just keeping them out of the line of fire. Keep them out of LoS, wait for your opponent to focus on something else. Move them in when and where your opponent least expects it, A bike that's parked a foot away from your opponent on turn 1 gets chewed up fast. A bike squad that pops out from behind a building on turn 2 instead is now close enough to do some damage before it takes return fire.

Unless you're running a bike only army like Ravenwing, use your bikes as a support unit instead of a mainline soldier. Get them where your opponent least expects it, go after vulnerable shooty units, or take some melta and go after their vehicles.

Something has to die first so if they are focusing down bikes (which are generally considered quite durable) then that's shooting not directed at your other units. Your bikers are getting focused down first most likely because there aren't other immediate threats to draw fire away from your bikes. If you really need to protect that unit then use the terrain to your advantage to hide out of LoS or start the unit in reserves to hide from the initial alpha strike.

For Orks in general they operate on redundancy so while 1 unit of something (bikes, tankbustas, boyz, etc) aren't gong to do a whole lot but a strategy built around lots of the same unit type will be much harder to shut down. If your bikes are the key to your strategy then it might be wise to add more bikes and cut out the less useful units so that way if your bikes get focus fired then you have more on the field to do what you need done.

Traditio wrote:

vezirtziszarok wrote:
Here's the think, I have 2 armies, 1 for orks and 1 for Ultra and I use warbikers/bike squads in both of them. However they always die in the first turn... I must be using them wrong. Could you help me by telling me what is the purose of these units and how should I use them? Until now, I'm trying to find a weak spot in the enemy lines and attack it with Big shootas or bolters but the enemy always targets them and kills them easily. Should I keep them back and use them only to capture objectives? My friends (necrons, Eldars) use them very nicely with deep strikes and nice blasts.

My first detachment is 1600pts orks with 9 warbikers in it and my other detachment is Ultramarines 1700 pts with 6 bikes

1. Are you familiar with the jink special rule?

2. What upgrades have you purchased on your bikes?

3. What is your overall army composition?

1)yeah of course, I don't use it much though because of the snapshot

2) The warbikers have squad is 8 boyz with choppa and slugga and 1 nob with power Klaw. My space marine detachment has only 6 bikes with no warbike in it. I've upgraded them only with a plasma gun

3) Space marines:

HQ: Librarian (psyker level 2, terminator armour) 115p
troops: 10 tacticals imperial fists (multi melta, melta gun) with rhino 190p , 10 tacticals Ultra (Flamer, Missile launcher) 160p
Elite: 5 Assault terminators (storm shields, thunder hammer) 225p, 5 assault terminators (lightning claws) 175p
Fast attack: 6 bikes (with sergeant plasma gun) 140p
Heavy support: 5devastators (4 lascannon) 150p, 5 devastators (2 heavy bolters, 1 plasma cannon, 1 missile launcher) 120p 1 Venerable dreadnought (extra armour) with drop pod 165, Land raider redeemer 240p

My ork list:

HQ: 1 warboss (mega armour twin linked shoota and power Klaw, da lucky stick) 125p 2 painboyz 100p
troops: 20boyz ('evay armour) 200p 20boyz ('eavy armour) 200p
Elite: 10 nobz (3 power klaw, 4 Big choppa) + trukk 350p
Fast attack: 3 Deffkoptas (twin linked rockit launcha, 2bigboom), 9 warbikers (1 boss nob with power Klaw, bosspole) 200p
Heavy support: 2 battlewagon (1 kannon, 4 rockit launcha, Deff rolla) 300p (I use the wagons as transport for the boyz and when they're done with that they target mostly vehicles, if they fail i use the nobs to take down vehicles)

thanks for answering

Hang on buddy, are you mixing chapter tactics in the same detachment? Each combined arms detachment cam only have one chapter tactic. You can take another chapter tactic if you take another CAD or allied detachment.

Ok while I understand the reluctance to jink because it forces you to snap fire you forget a main benifit of bikes.

Twin-linked weaponry (bolters/sluggaz [or shòotas dnno what o4c have])

They're a general priority target for all armies because depending on chapter tactics and load outs they can bring so much pain if you don't take care of them ASAP. Between speed and firepower/melee competency they're super versatile, hence the habit of wiping them. However unlike their foot slogging brothers you can abuse a benifit they don't have. Jinking and twin linked guns throw them in cover and you get a 2+ save.

X

Spiritfox22 wrote:
Jinking and twin linked guns throw them in cover and you get a 2+ save.

Sorry to tell you this, but jinking gives a cover save, it doesn't improve a cover save. The two are distinctly different, and thus worded differently. Things like stealth, shroud, camo cloaks or netting, all improve your cover bonus, as in a 4+ cover goes to a 3+ or 2+ depending on what you have, or they count as a 6+, 5+ etc. in the open. Jinking, OTOH, grants you a cover save, meaning that if you don't have a cover save you have one now. However, if you already have a cover save, this only gives you a second cover save. Having two cover saves means you only get the best one, not that they combine.

Granting shroud to bikes or stealth to skilled riders will give you a 2+, but that's about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vezirtziszarok wrote:

1)yeah of course, I don't use it much though because of the snapshot

Just to make sure, don't orks already only hit on 5+? Going from a 5+ to a 6+ isn't that devastating, plus as mentioned above it's better than the bikes dying.

I mean sure, space marines are a slightly different story since there's always the chance your opponent won't hit you, but you need to keep in mind still that bikers that can't shoot that well for a turn are better than bikers gone for the rest of the game. And you still have CC if you're up against soft enemies.

Ork bikers are honestly one of the best units to get a turn 2 charge with. Or turn 1 if you went 2nd.

I always put the bikes on a flank and turbo boost them. When Ork bikes jink they get +1 cover. So they have a 3+ jink save. Sure I am snapshooting the next time, but 6+ twin-linked isnt all that bad with all the shots they get. Also I will be able to charge. This unit of bikes will make short work of a juicy backfield target or any vehicle.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Hang on buddy, are you mixing chapter tactics in the same detachment? Each combined arms detachment cam only have one chapter tactic. You can take another chapter tactic if you take another CAD or allied detachment.

oh... i didn't know that



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icculus wrote:
Ork bikers are honestly one of the best units to get a turn 2 charge with. Or turn 1 if you went 2nd.

I always put the bikes on a flank and turbo boost them. When Ork bikes jink they get +1 cover. So they have a 3+ jink save. Sure I am snapshooting the next time, but 6+ twin-linked isnt all that bad with all the shots they get. Also I will be able to charge. This unit of bikes will make short work of a juicy backfield target or any vehicle.

you have a strong point here

 Icculus wrote:
Ork bikers are honestly one of the best units to get a turn 2 charge with. Or turn 1 if you went 2nd.

I always put the bikes on a flank and turbo boost them. When Ork bikes jink they get +1 cover. So they have a 3+ jink save. Sure I am snapshooting the next time, but 6+ twin-linked isnt all that bad with all the shots they get. Also I will be able to charge. This unit of bikes will make short work of a juicy backfield target or any vehicle.

Minor clarification: Jink is 4+ cover. When Ork Bikes turboboost, they gain +1 to their cover save until the end of the controlling player's next turn. (I know what you meant, I just wanted to make sure this was clear.)

 Cleatus wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Ork bikers are honestly one of the best units to get a turn 2 charge with. Or turn 1 if you went 2nd.

I always put the bikes on a flank and turbo boost them. When Ork bikes jink they get +1 cover. So they have a 3+ jink save. Sure I am snapshooting the next time, but 6+ twin-linked isnt all that bad with all the shots they get. Also I will be able to charge. This unit of bikes will make short work of a juicy backfield target or any vehicle.

Minor clarification: Jink is 4+ cover. When Ork Bikes turboboost, they gain +1 to their cover save until the end of the controlling player's next turn. (I know what you meant, I just wanted to make sure this was clear.)

Yeah i thought I had typed "after turbo-boosting" to the +1 cover from jinking, but apparently i missed that. But yes, thats why I usually turbo-boos them in turn 1. I just wish the WAAAGH! special rule would include turbo-boosting instead of just "Run" moves.

vezirtziszarok wrote:

HQ: Librarian (psyker level 2, terminator armour) 115p

Elite: 5 Assault terminators (storm shields, thunder hammer) 225p, 5 assault terminators (lightning claws) 175p
1 Venerable dreadnought (extra armour) with drop pod 165, Land raider redeemer 240p

I'm assuming that all this stuff is either in reserve, or behind 14 armour. There's not much else in the list that's going to be an immediate threat other than your bikers, since it's all hidden away. You opponent doesn't really have any other options to shoot at!

I've had great luck with a ork biker heavy army led by Zhadsnark. Using his skilled rider and turbo-boost, his squad can have 2+ cover while being in the enemy's face on turn 1. Add a DLS warboss to tank and a painboy for a fun biker-star with great survivability. As to not have them focus-fired, I suggest further small bike squads, solo-koptas, and tankbustas or MANz in trukks moving up flanks simultaneously to apply threat saturation. With enough targets of opportunity, your opponent will have difficulty choosing just one. I've also found using lootas and lobbas excellent for keeping my opponent's head down on that first turn giving me the room to maneuver into advantageous position. Any artillery should do. Using a cheap disposable kopta to soak a bad overwatch during a Waaagh has been absolutely game changing on occasion, as well.

The basic tenant I learned with bikes: use a lot of them or don't bother. five or six bikes is usually just a target. Twelve can be downright threatening. I run 33 bikes in my list.

Can you still use Zhadsnark? I thought since he wasnt in the book and forge world got rid of his models he went the way of Vect and wasnt able to be put on the table anymore. I'm brand new so its possible im just wrong lol.

Zhadsnark is technically still available...
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf
*cough* last page *cough*