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I have recently dusted off my Dark Angels to give them another go (I have a unit of Knights on order from amazon that I got excited for) and I thought I'd draw up a Lion's Blade detachment list. My common opponents are assault-meta, such as KDK, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, etc. So how do I make a Lion's Blade detachment worth it?

So far, this is what I have:

Battle Demi-Company
-Mostly grav equipped
-Minimum squads
-Only enough points to budget in 2 transports after the other two formations... which two are best and why?

Deathwing Redemption Force
-Belial
-2 Standard units of Terminators

Ravenwing Silence Squadron
-2 Nephilim
-1 Dark Talon


My logic so far:
So I have most of my army coming in on turn 2 or later. The Silence Squadron has about an 88 percent chance of coming in on turn 2, which is almost enough to be an assurance, but enough of a possibility (given my famous ability to roll poorly) to be worrisome.

Against the standard Assault meta I face, I expect the Silence squadron to be the most effective, since they cannot easily be brought down when zooming with my opponent's lack of skyfire or interceptor weapons. Against Wulfen especially I am expecting the Dark Talon to be particularly handy... even though I am not crazy about the small blast, the BS5 on strafing runs should help put it where I want it to go. The Avenger Bolters on the Nephilim should be effective against other air targets, or against softer ground targets. A question about them... how many of the one-shot missiles can you fire in a turn? It would seem silly for them to have 6 missiles and only be able to fire one per turn, considering they don't start on the board ever.

The Deathwing are a mixed bag. I am relying on them to deepstrike in precisely (thanks, Belial) and get twin-linked shooting on unsuspecting targets. Then, in my assault-heavy meta, they will get full-BS on the overwatch, effectively getting 2 full volleys in before they get charged. So I am going with the standard Assault Cannons, as the Rending should come in handy with all those shots. The downsides I see are that there are so few of them, they are so expensive, and against super-units like Wulfen, they will get crushed in melee after they get off a round or two of shooting. I am just hoping that with invul saves and enough Overwatch, they will be able to mitigate some of the damage they take. When they hit back, they will be able to hit back hard, so it's mostly about surviving the initial charge.

Although I want to go mechanized for my Battle Company, I didn't have the points. So I only have 70 points to allocate to transports. So which squads would be served best by which transports? I expect heavy losses from this portion of my force, as they are minimum sized squads with little protection. I just hope to use them to camp objectives where possible, likely the ones in my backfield. I am guessing that two lonely rhinos, especially ones starting on the board, are going to be slaughtered fairly quickly. So probably drop pods would be the best way to go?

Looking forward to the feedback, I know it's been a while since I ran the DA so I am probably in need of many pointers

- you can fire up to 4 weapons on a flyer per turn. So you could fire 4 of your missiles and then not shoot anything else if you wanted to.

-If you are going lion's blade, I'd say drop the terminators and try to see if you can go double demi-company and make all your transports free. With that much MSU spam it might make your opponents think twice about charging your units if every time they do they are going to have to face what amounts to a free shooting phase for you just so they can kill one of six squads of 5 tactical with at least a special weapon that will whittle down their forces each time they do.

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
- you can fire up to 4 weapons on a flyer per turn. So you could fire 4 of your missiles and then not shoot anything else if you wanted to.

-If you are going lion's blade, I'd say drop the terminators and try to see if you can go double demi-company and make all your transports free. With that much MSU spam it might make your opponents think twice about charging your units if every time they do they are going to have to face what amounts to a free shooting phase for you just so they can kill one of six squads of 5 tactical with at least a special weapon that will whittle down their forces each time they do.

Going double demi-company is my eventual goal. It is taking me a bit to collect all those rhinos/drop pods!

Is taking Belial worth it over a regular captain in terminator armor, if I have to take the Deathwatch?

Belial has only a few benefits over a regular Captain, but why bother when Interrogator Chaplains are available to you?

Depends how much you value the no scatter deep strike.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Belial has only a few benefits over a regular Captain, but why bother when Interrogator Chaplains are available to you?

Mostly because in my assault-heavy meta (Wolfen, Death Company, Khorne) I don't WANT to be in combat, as they all do it better than I do? I won't be getting the charge if I am deepstriking, so what good would the chaplain do then? I figured Belial, for his precise deepstriking, would be much better. He can even take a TH/SS combo and tank wounds, if needed.

If I were running Knights, I would totally agree with you though. I think Knights with a chaplain would be a fantastic assault unit.

why not go with ezekial? he gives whatever unit he's in a flat +1 atk, which will help whether you charge or get charged. He also gets to roll on telepathy or divination. Cover ignoring grav at full bs in overwatch and then vets swinging like bezerkers is just mean. Or, just go invisible and let him charge you and laugh as nothing hits.
Combine him with a xenos inquisitor with psychtroke grenades and your opponent will avoid charging that unit at all costs

Um... I don't think the Lion's Blade gives free transports. Pretty Sure that's just the Vanilla Marine's GSF...

It does if you take two cores. But one needs a Captain and the other a Chaplain.

Oh, does it get that bonus as well? Do... people not just take it because of the lack of Obsec then, or...?

 Swampmist wrote:
Oh, does it get that bonus as well? Do... people not just take it because of the lack of Obsec then, or...?

Ravenwing is generally better and if you want the free transports you'll take a Gladius which has better bonuses for a similar thing.

pm713 wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Oh, does it get that bonus as well? Do... people not just take it because of the lack of Obsec then, or...?

Ravenwing is generally better and if you want the free transports you'll take a Gladius which has better bonuses for a similar thing.

Unless you are a purist

With my meta being as it is, I am really looking at Dark Angels for their effectiveness at overwatch. The Lion's Blade detachment is extremely effective at overwatch, allowing all the models in the detachment to fire overwatch at their full BS, so that is my reasoning for choosing the detachment. For non-assault metas that have lots of Eldar and Tau, for example, this may not be the more effective choice, in which case you'd probably want the Gladius for the flexibility of choosing chapter tactics.

pm713 wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Oh, does it get that bonus as well? Do... people not just take it because of the lack of Obsec then, or...?

Ravenwing is generally better and if you want the free transports you'll take a Gladius which has better bonuses for a similar thing.

Both give ObSec. It's Full BS Overwatch versus 4 Doctrines (1 of each of the 3, and a Tactical Doctrine that affects only the 2 Demi Companys - not the Auxiliary)

Lion's Blade Gladius is 'better' in regards to you only have to bring 1 5man Scout squad for their mandatory Aux)

Saythings wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Oh, does it get that bonus as well? Do... people not just take it because of the lack of Obsec then, or...?

Ravenwing is generally better and if you want the free transports you'll take a Gladius which has better bonuses for a similar thing.

Both give ObSec. It's Full BS Overwatch versus 4 Doctrines (1 of each of the 3, and a Tactical Doctrine that affects only the 2 Demi Companys - not the Auxiliary)

Lion's Blade Gladius is 'better' in regards to you only have to bring 1 5man Scout squad for their mandatory Aux)

Doesn't Gladius give ObSec to everyone rather than just the Core choices?

Doctrines are way better than Overwatch though because they actually work on every army whereas Overwatch only works against some armies.

pm713 wrote:

Saythings wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:
Oh, does it get that bonus as well? Do... people not just take it because of the lack of Obsec then, or...?

Ravenwing is generally better and if you want the free transports you'll take a Gladius which has better bonuses for a similar thing.

Both give ObSec. It's Full BS Overwatch versus 4 Doctrines (1 of each of the 3, and a Tactical Doctrine that affects only the 2 Demi Companys - not the Auxiliary)

Lion's Blade Gladius is 'better' in regards to you only have to bring 1 5man Scout squad for their mandatory Aux)

Doesn't Gladius give ObSec to everyone rather than just the Core choices?

Doctrines are way better than Overwatch though because they actually work on every army whereas Overwatch only works against some armies.

Exactly. While gladius might be "better" in a competitive setting, in my local club, I am going to try out the actual Dark Angels codex. Also, Dark Angels have a really cool aesthetic, which I am all about in this game. I'm probably more of a hobbyist than a competitive gamer... there is a good reason I don't put my win/loss record in my signature like some people

With Dark Angels, however, the Assault squad seems like a bit of a tax since they have lousy special weapon options. Any tips for using the mandatory assault squads?

Can they be switched out for a bike squad like with the Demi-company? If so, do that. If not, do what the rest of us do. 5 man flamer+combi-flamer in Drop Pods for hordes, or just a combi-melta for a chance to bust a tank.

They cannot be switched for a bike squad, unfortunately. If they could, that would be super nice due to the ravenwing rerollable jink saves.

The combi weapon is for the sergeant?

I'm glad to see someone besides myself giving the Lion's Blade a go! I usually run it with Ravenwing, as Deathwing just aren't that good for the points cost. Way too much AP2 and grav spam floating around these days. I've got a list I'm considering running with two Attack Squadrons with 2x Grav gun apiece, plus a libby on a bike to roll Divination for one of the squads. I don't have enough transports or marines to do the full battle company thing, and I'm not about to go and buy that many Razorbacks and Drop Pods. Instead I'm focusing on my Ravenwing, and maybe this summer I'll run my own Silence Squadron since I have two more DA flyer kits waiting to be put together.

You are right about that. Wulfen claws at AP2 seems really lame, since they also get shred. Reminds me of 5th edition where all power weapons bypassed saves...

The grav spam really is a problem competitively. It's so prevalent, there really is not much you can do about it, except grab some decent cover. Ideally, I'd run my terminators into some ruins after they land to protect them from grav a bit. But the Deathwing are pretty spendy for what they do, especially when compared to absolutely broken units like Wulfen.

I do like the Ravenwing, but there is a local player that runs Ravenwing very heavily and I am trying to differentiate myself from him haha. I am going heavy on the flyers though, since he doesn't normally take them. The formation seems pretty solid, as far as flyers go, so I'm willing to give them a shot.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
They cannot be switched for a bike squad, unfortunately. If they could, that would be super nice due to the ravenwing rerollable jink saves.

The combi weapon is for the sergeant?

Yup. If your Assualt marines are anything like the vanilla ones, your options are flamers (ok for anti-horde, depends on your meta.) and \or Plasma Pistols (Terrible in like 90% of situations outside of narrative stuff.) Then you can take a combi on the sarg if i remember correctly.