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Hey everyone, the last time I was able to enjoy a game of 40k was quite a while ago (around 5th ed)

I've been out of the loop for a while and after some reading decided to start up a different army, I've been looking for a reasonable mixed mode army, okay guns or combat, basically have something at least modest to do on each turn, and not made of paper.
crons and gk's caught my eye, but so far crons seem good if a little stale. and gk's seem like a good different experience than my few years with Nids'

I'm a little unfamiliar with how formations and detachments really work? so I just did something I'm comfortable with. this is mostly a placeholder list until I learn a bit more about how both 7th and GK's play out.

HQ

150 - Brother-Captain

Elite

295 Paladins (4 paladins)
-Apothecary
-Brotherhood Banner
-Daemon hammer
-Incinerator

Troop

195- Terminators
-Psycannon
-DaemonHammer

195- Terminators
-Psycannon
-DaemonHammer

Heavy Support

225 -Stormraven gunship
-TL lascannon
-Typhoon ML

225-Nemesis dreadKnight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy psycannon
-Greatsword
-Personal Teleporter

225-Nemesis dreadKnight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy psycannon
-Greatsword
-Personal Teleporter



I've read over the Nemesis strike force formation and the perks seem really good, I'm unsure how their incorporated though, is it just a replacement of the standard force org? or are they attachments?

I personally despise walking any units over the board so the idea of walking anything makes me cringe inside,(which makes the nemesis force seem very appealing) so a few questions


-are terminators just better than the strike squads? I didn't see a lot of lists run them

-I never really saw any stormraven's either, flyers seems really important to have, how do GK's usually deal with them?

-I see librarians over brother-captains in basically every list, why?

-is it possible to take an hq, some troops and say, storm ravens, then add nemesis formation attachment for the bonuses for termie troops? or is it an either or, standard list or formation.

thanks in advance

 btChampion wrote:
Hey everyone, the last time I was able to enjoy a game of 40k was quite a while ago (around 5th ed)

I've been out of the loop for a while and after some reading decided to start up a different army, I've been looking for a reasonable mixed mode army, okay guns or combat, basically have something at least modest to do on each turn, and not made of paper.
crons and gk's caught my eye, but so far crons seem good if a little stale. and gk's seem like a good different experience than my few years with Nids'

I'm a little unfamiliar with how formations and detachments really work? so I just did something I'm comfortable with. this is mostly a placeholder list until I learn a bit more about how both 7th and GK's play out.

HQ

150 - Brother-Captain

Elite

295 Paladins (4 paladins)
-Apothecary
-Brotherhood Banner
-Daemon hammer
-Incinerator

Troop

195- Terminators
-Psycannon
-DaemonHammer

195- Terminators
-Psycannon
-DaemonHammer

Heavy Support

225 -Stormraven gunship
-TL lascannon
-Typhoon ML

225-Nemesis dreadKnight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy psycannon
-Greatsword
-Personal Teleporter

225-Nemesis dreadKnight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy psycannon
-Greatsword
-Personal Teleporter



I've read over the Nemesis strike force formation and the perks seem really good, I'm unsure how their incorporated though, is it just a replacement of the standard force org? or are they attachments?

I personally despise walking any units over the board so the idea of walking anything makes me cringe inside,(which makes the nemesis force seem very appealing) so a few questions


-are terminators just better than the strike squads? I didn't see a lot of lists run them

-I never really saw any stormraven's either, flyers seems really important to have, how do GK's usually deal with them?

-I see librarians over brother-captains in basically every list, why?

-is it possible to take an hq, some troops and say, storm ravens, then add nemesis formation attachment for the bonuses for termie troops? or is it an either or, standard list or formation.

thanks in advance

1-Terminators are sadly overpriced and a major victim of power creep. There's more AP2 in the game then you can shake a stick at. There's plasma weapons everywhere. Storm bolters are pretty meh. Basic cover gives you a 5++. Strike Squads are like 60 points cheaper for what amounts to -1 armour save, don't attract anti-tank fire like terminators do, and get heavy weapons for half the cost that the termies do.

2-Storm ravens are comparatively expensive to other fliers. The AM vendetta is 30 points cheaper and comes stock with 3 tl lascannon. The ork Dakka Jet is almost half the price and could probably beat one in a dogfight. Most players either use an ally, or a fortification that comes with an AA gun emplacement, or just fire at it enough to make it jink so it has to snap fire and ignore it.

3-Librarian is way cheaper and a better psyker, and GK are all about the psykers.

4-You can form a force from any number of formations or detachments you want.

As for your list, you have a third of your force tied up in the paladin and brother captain which can be instakilled by S8 AP2, 2W and FNP be damned. (Power fists, meltaguns, grav weapons, Str D etc.) The terminators and stormraven are another price sink. The GK can be and are pretty much supposed to be amazing psykers, but that part of your list is very weak. A competitive list would have double the amount of warp charges.

You did good with the NDK, besides them the superstars of the GK list are the librarian w/ liber daemonica, Draigo, purifiers w/ rhino, and maybe the interceptors. Razorbacks are your best option for ranged support. The NSF allows you to take a single troop option instead of two, I'd seriously consider it.

E:also, if you're gonna run a NSF, an ADL+comms relay is a must so you don't end up accidentally feeding your troops into the meatgrinder single file.

E2: check out the GK tactics thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/682457.page

Paladins are over costed, never use power armor grey knights like strike squads, max out on termie squads and nemesis dreads as well as a librarian or two or draigo as a tank

That's a lot of good info there Slip thanks! so you'd recommend something like this?

HQ

160- Librarian
-Domina liber Daemonica
-Psyker Mastery Level 3
-Storm Bolter

135- Librarian
-Psyker Mastery Level 3
-Storm Bolter


Elite

200-Purifiers
2x-psycannon
-Daemonhammer
-Rhino

200-Purifiers
2x-psycannon
-Daemonhammer
-Rhino

Troop

170- Strike Squad
-Psycannon
-Daemonhammer
-Rhino Transport

170- Strike Squad
-Psycannon
-Daemonhammer
-Rhino Transport


225-Nemesis dreadKnight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy psycannon
-Greatsword
-Personal Teleporter

225-Nemesis dreadKnight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy psycannon
-Greatsword
-Personal Teleporter


had 15pts left over so I picked up 2 storm bolters with 5 floating.

I'm not looking to spread myself thing off the get go and ally out a lot of resources off the bat. but this seem's do-able enough

I miss the pally star, hahaha. I never got to really have to much fun with a deathball, I was to busy spamming tervigons and hive guard and hoping to live through the leafblower, but regardless thanks again more so for the link!



and @pain4pleasure, MSU use to be a big go to thing, what do you think makes strike squads in rhino's less strong than walking/striking terminators? fewer points and a rhino seem like a good trade off for the 2+ and better weapons. i'm not sure how spammy the meta is right now
but terminators and anything else really dies to being buried under saving throws. and telling your opponents to crack a box before your boys is usually a good thing.

again, thanks for the input guys!

Looking good! 14 warp charges should put the fear into your enemy.

A couple more notes: incinerators are favoured for purifiers. Their signature ability Cleansing Flame can be used while the unit is embarked, is their primary purpose,and only has 9" range. Cleansing Flame and 2x incinerator is your hard horde/troop counter. Your NDK will be your primary anti armour tool and fire magnet tanks, and any hard elite troops should be countered with your psyker abilities. I know it's tempting, but give the hammers to rando squad mates. If you give them to the justicar, he can be challenged out and waste it's potential. This is more preference now, but try rolling on santic for your liber daemonica librarian and pyromancy on the other. Pyromancy has a lot of nice witchfire/beam/nova abilities that can be used while embarked, and a couple abilities granting invulnerable saves that favourably compare to santic's sanctuary. Telepathy is the most popular one for invisibility/shrouding shenanigans, but without tigerius's ability re-rolls you could get stuck with some of the more useless abilities in the game imho. Another preference would be to swap out one strike squad for 2 razorbacks with lascannons & tl plasma guns. Shooting is the most important part of the game now and you'd be trading in a salvo 2/4 (moving the rhino at all means the squad can only fire two shots instead of four.) for a couple lascannons and TL plasma guns that can move and fire more effectively at longer ranges with better AP. Lastly, don't waste your points on storm bolters. I know, I know, it's only ten points. They'b be better spent on combi-meltas, or more importantly upgrading your melee weapons to either falchions or halberds. Leave the staves on your librarians though, adamantium will is a nice bonus.

If you're interested, here's a semi-successful tournament GK list to peruse: http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Aaron-Albert-8th-Overall-Las-Vegas-Open-2015.pdf

(Sadly they are rare.)

e: also, I feel your pain. I was an ork player back in like 3rd ed, came back and was like "I really want to be the one with 2+ armour saves for a change!" Only to find out the 2+ is soo passé and it's all about the re-rollable 2++/3++ now.

e2: totally off on a tangent now, but ork choppas used to reduce all armour saves to a max of 4+, (Making do with a 2nd ed codex for all of 3rd) then 4th ed comes out, their new codex makes their choppas +1s. Which is like fine, it statistically averages out to be nearly identical vs MEQs so whatever. Then the newest one rolls out and now they just get furious assault. Meanwhile the eldar wraithlord, which was considered the most OP unit in the game bar none got essentially replaced by the goddamn wraithknight with the same fething problem. Who is calling for these ork nerfs and eldar buffs??? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

thanks again for the info slip!

the environment I'll be playing in is really anything but competitive so I'm not to worried about it right now, that GK tactics thread was a good source of info (if a little biased), which is to be expected of course, but helpful none the less

as for winning the psyker phase, with the warp charges are those just used then to cancel out opponents psyker powers then?

 btChampion wrote:


as for winning the psyker phase, with the warp charges are those just used then to cancel out opponents psyker powers then?

You get a fresh new warp charge pool in every psychic phase. So during your opponent's psychic phase, all your warp charges are spent canceling powers. You don't need to worry about saving them by not casting powers. It's a fresh pool everytime.

So just having a lot of warp charges means you'll dominate yours and your opponent's psychic phases.