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Hi All,

In a nut shell, I'm curious if KDK can be truly competitive against the best in today's game, namely my weekly opponents of top cheese Tau, Eldar and Guard/Grey Knights. When i started the game 14 years ago i immediately fell in love with Chaos, specifically Khorne. Im sure were all aware of the current state of chaos in 40k, so ill leave my soap box at home for now. My weekly play group is extremely competitive, and i am finding it hard to get motivated to model and play anymore to be honest. I was hoping that maybe a KDK army will light that spark again, but i have Visions of just getting mulched to pieces before i can even get a marvelous turn two assault off. The army i have been conjuring in my head would be something like D Thirster, Jugger Lord, Gorepack with lots and lots of hounds, and then some combination of drakes, dinobots, and grinders. Seems good on paper but im not sure i would stand a chance on the actual table.

Thoughts are appreciated, Thanks!

There is a formation that came out in a warhammer world exclusive book that requires one of the forgeworld droppods (the big one) and 20 berserkers that allows the berserkers to assault on the turn they arrive from the pod. I imagine 3 of those would get most tau players panties in a bunch when 2 pods come down on Turn 1. Those pods are kinda pricy though ($216 each for just the pods...)

My wife is starting KDK as well and I am having tons of fun researching it.

It's generally pretty agreed upon that the Gorepack formation with as many units of Flesh Hounds as possible is the way to go.

As many Flesh Hounds AND Bikers, you mean!

Just be warned that bikers (brand new) are $40 for 3 and flesh hounds are $50 for 5. I have been looking over e-bay for the last week and haven't really seen many used ones pop up for a decent price. You may be stuck with using some of the lesser formations unless you have the $$$ to shell out.

I own a lot of different armies, and I find Khorne pulls me in every time I try to play one of my other ones. That said, they can be difficult.

Gore pack is obviously good, with melt as on the bikes. KDK has few ranged AT options, so the meltas are pretty vital.

The D Thirster I've been trying to master- he's not super survivable, so flying is where you'd want him- but you run into the problem of if he does fly around, he's extremely limited in that he has to land, then wait, then charge. He also is pretty weak to some units and is a big target. That's not to say he's not good, it's just taking me a little bit of time to really figure him out.

I have also seen a KDK list with maxed out Maulerfiends do pretty well in a tournament for what it's worth.

I have found that KDK is very lacking in AA. So I actually started allying in the space marine AA stalker formation, 1. Because I like the models and 2. Because they are actually great at destroying air stuff (tyranid fliers especially). I also run a heavy cultist and terminator army. Isn't great, but looks nice.

Thanks for the Input. I actually have a ton of bikes just laying around from the old days, as well as a mix of Khorne and Chaos hounds from fantasy that i can rebase now. So im not really worried about the cost to get into it. I guess I'm just worried about the ability to stay on the table against 3 armies who will either blast me or run away and blast me haha. Maybe its worth a try anyway.


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Has anyone seen on the the chaos Knights (normal or Kytan) be used to great effect? I would think it would make great book end to take some of the heat off of the bloodthirster as well as add some punch to the army.

The Chaos Knights are meh... The Kytan is the one to compete with Imperial Knights.

 Xerics wrote:
The Chaos Knights are meh... The Kytan is the one to compete with Imperial Knights.

If you aren't grimoiring the Chaos Knight sure.

The Khorne Imperial Knight is pretty awesome, and Nurgle is...okay. Rest of the marks aren't worth it.

 Xerics wrote:
Just be warned that bikers (brand new) are $40 for 3 and flesh hounds are $50 for 5. I have been looking over e-bay for the last week and haven't really seen many used ones pop up for a decent price. You may be stuck with using some of the lesser formations unless you have the $$$ to shell out.

You could perhaps convert the DV bikes into Chaos bikes with a bit of work, and just get WFB/AoS Chaos Warhounds (from the Beastmen faction) to serve as your flesh hounds. Cheaper that way. The only flesh hounds I have I got cheap on eBay (and they were metal and much cooler than the current official Finecrap ones).

 Xerics wrote:
The Chaos Knights are meh... The Kytan is the one to compete with Imperial Knights.

The two Chaos Knights are exactly the same as their Imperial Knight counter-parts, bar the slightly better Foe-Reaper Chainsword on the Chaos ones. Sure you don't get the Carapace weapon options, but you do get the ability to give them an aligned Demon. Plus as CrownAxe said, you can give one a straight up 3+ Invul save with The Grimoire of True Names. How is that meh?

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
The Chaos Knights are meh... The Kytan is the one to compete with Imperial Knights.

The two Chaos Knights are exactly the same as their Imperial Knight counter-parts, bar the slightly better Foe-Reaper Chainsword on the Chaos ones. Sure you don't get the Carapace weapon options, but you do get the ability to give them an aligned Demon. Plus as CrownAxe said, you can give one a straight up 3+ Invul save with The Grimoire of True Names. How is that meh?

And the fact that the daemon upgrades gives true 5+ invul?

I find chaos Knights superior to imperial Knights. They just don't have the formations and the ability to be a stand alone army.

TheMetal wrote:
Hi All,

In a nut shell, I'm curious if KDK can be truly competitive against the best in today's game, namely my weekly opponents of top cheese Tau, Eldar and Guard/Grey Knights. When i started the game 14 years ago i immediately fell in love with Chaos, specifically Khorne. Im sure were all aware of the current state of chaos in 40k, so ill leave my soap box at home for now. My weekly play group is extremely competitive, and i am finding it hard to get motivated to model and play anymore to be honest. I was hoping that maybe a KDK army will light that spark again, but i have Visions of just getting mulched to pieces before i can even get a marvelous turn two assault off. The army i have been conjuring in my head would be something like D Thirster, Jugger Lord, Gorepack with lots and lots of hounds, and then some combination of drakes, dinobots, and grinders. Seems good on paper but im not sure i would stand a chance on the actual table.

Thoughts are appreciated, Thanks!

First off, keep the entire army min/maxed. A minimum Slaughtercult such as our Chaos Lord + 2x8 B.Letters, 5 Possessed, 2x8 Cultists, either a single unit of Spawn (for the Lord to join) or 2x1 Spawn, etc...
The main strength of Khornekin is the Blood Tithe system, and to really maximise this, you want small units that will die and thus, generate more Tithe points. army-wide FnP may not be up there with what the real Big Boy armies get, but it's the best thing Khornekin has going for it.

Maximise your Gorepacks! These will be the real work horses of your army. 3 Bikers w/2x Meltas + combi-Melta for tank popping/MC wound stripping, and then your larger units of Hounds for actually killing stuff.
Take as many of these as pts allow!

Ally in Be'lakor and have him casting Invis on your Str.D 'Thirster. Yes it's stupid & cheesey, but if your group are all playing full-on facewrecker mode, then this is among the top level cheese that Khorenkin can produce.
Otherwise, if Be'lakor doesn't make the cut (ie: you want 100% Khorne only!), then definitely consider allying in a handful of Khorne Daemons in order to gain access to the Grimoire of True Names. Even just giving your 'Thirster a 3++ can readily increase his lifespan. Likewise, the above mentioned FW add-ons of a Chaos Knight/Kytan engine are additional options, though they all still fall behind Be'lakor's guaranteed Invis shenanigans.

Again, Thanks for the advice. I do not mind adding in non Khorne units if it increase the chances of glory for the Blood God over all

With the Bel'kor build, I'm assuming he is allied in via the Daemon book via an allied CAD? This means that i would also need to grab two troops from said book, who would still have Daemonic Instability and NOT have the BFTBG rule, thus no BP points? seems like a slightly large tax, but adding troll power to a Thirster does make me warm and fuzzy. And as i believe some one pointed out, The Chaos Knights of any flavor are technically Daemons which means they would be able to benefit from Daemon and Bel'kor buffs as well? that does open up some possibilities.

I suppose the only thing that im really worried about at this point is the prevalent Tau Cheese i will be up against, but then again who isn't haha. That and the grey knights will be a pain, but i believe this army can actually match or perhaps even beat eldar speed, so that seems interesting. For Tau, I know i will be up against at least 2 rip tides, and the formation with GhostKheel and steathsuits that hits vehicles on the rear. Hopefully i could tie these up with hounds before they slaughter everything? Or just win via objectives? looks like ive got more homework to do

saying this as a tau player, I really like the Chaos Biker Lord with Kor'lath. Using it as a delivery system for a bloodthirster is pure win, especially when the tau player will not be able to target it with EWO shooting as it isn't actually coming in from reserves.

They're more competitive than vanilla CSM, that's for sure.

I'm not sure if it's an army I'd invest money and effort in, though. The codex was an excuse to sell the new Bloodthirster kit to 40k players, so far it hasn't seen any continuation in the form of more Daemonkin books for the other Chaos Gods (the most reliable rumormongers have been adamant that there's no Tzeentch Daemonkin book in sight). So it could end up becoming pretty much an one-shot codex and may not survive a new edition (or perhaps it will be still available but left to rot without any kind of updates).

If you know your army inside out it can be very competitive. Check this out, it's a little bit of inspiration http://www.spikeybits.com/2015/12/what-does-the-latest-top-5-gt-lists-say-about-40k.html
I my self too just started KDK and i'm super excited.

The Fist of Khorne is a great way to tie up multiple of his units on the first turn if he clumps em together. Bring down the Kharybdis Assault Claw on T1, drop out the 20 Khorne Berzerkers and assault/multi-assault and tie up as many of his things has you can. With 20 berzerkers it should be easy to get a multi-assault off.


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The formation says that they can assault on the same turn that they leave the claw (its a formation rule not an assault vehicle rule). To me it reads if they leave the claw on T1 they can assault on T1.

 Xerics wrote:
The Fist of Khorne is a great way to tie up multiple of his units on the first turn if he clumps em together. Bring down the Kharybdis Assault Claw on T1, drop out the 20 Khorne Berzerkers and assault/multi-assault and tie up as many of his things has you can. With 20 berzerkers it should be easy to get a multi-assault off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The formation says that they can assault on the same turn that they leave the claw (its a formation rule not an assault vehicle rule). To me it reads if they leave the claw on T1 they can assault on T1.

Unless the Formation states that it's a 'Khorne Daemonkin Faction' in its datasheet, it's actually a terrible idea, since none of it will gain the BftBG rule and thus, not gain/be unable to contribute to the Blood Tithe. (Khornekin's biggest strength)
The main thing they'll do is 'steal' kills from the rest of the force, while their own eventual demise will bring 0 benefit. Plus, Khornekin should always be aiming for extreme MSU as that's how they keep the Tithe going strong... a 400+pts unit AND a super expensive Drop Pod just don't work.
At least a 'Thirster, while potentially topping over 300pts, brings with it some Blood Tithe pts, and more importantly, gains hugely from the table! (T6/5++/5+++ is pretty beefy!)

The Be'lakor option brings with it a model who's really not trying to actively 'steal' any kills from the army, (at worst, Psy Shriek a PitA unit such as a Riptide/Stormsurge to death), and brings only an additional 99pts 'tax' in a unit of 11 Pink Horrors. (as they bring +2WC's, and can just spend the entire gaming in hiding!)
Be'lakor himself spends the entire game flying about, which makes him the rough equivalent of a Nurgle DP in terms of trying to shoot him down. Tau will manage it if they really want to, but overall, he's hugely annoying to deal with.

Yes, the Fist of Khorne Formation does add the BftBG to the Kharybdis Assault Claw and the berzerkers. The formation also lets you try and land on vehicles for a D-hit (immobilizes the claw though) and the Berzerkers can hop out the turn they deepstrike and assault. It is around 650+ for the formation but that lets you tie up so many units with a good multi-assault that the rest of your army can advance and grab objectives etc.

Allying in Be'lakor only needs one troop choice from the codex you pick he is from (daemons or CSM). So you just need a unit of extra bloodletters or CSM but I see a lot of lists that add to his psychic dice by adding in Pink Horrors.

It might be pints intensive but I would love to see a bunch of drop pods with a crap load of bloodthirsty men with daddy issues storm the enemy lines in an apocalypse game on the first turn. I am literally thinking of doing KDK just to have 160 Berzerkers and 8 Karybdis Assault Claws


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It's 665 points for a barebones squad of 20 Berzerkers with Icon of Wrath and 1 Assault Claw.


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The claw has 10 Twinlinked S: 6 AP: 5 Pinning shots at 24" as well.

9 units of 5 hounds + whatever else.

The rest doesn't really matter.

I admit the fist does seem Fluffy and awesome, reminds me of the Sky Hammer force for imperials, just worse due to Chaos tax haha. While 665 is better than 888, its still seems like a huge points sink to this army. If the berserkers could combat squad or something similar, i think there would be more value to the formation as you could get more BP out of it. As it is now i feel the only real game plan is to hopefully keep something locked down for a turn while the rest of the army moves up...assuming theres enough left after the intercept and or overwatch

People have found that basing the army on mass hounds is "killy" enough? The speed and msu options for great for tieing up units and the like but the hounds themselves are pretty darn squishy imo.

with20 berzerkers I feel like you should be able to survive the overwatch and be able to multi assault at least 2 units of guys.

 Xerics wrote:
with20 berzerkers I feel like you should be able to survive the overwatch and be able to multi assault at least 2 units of guys.

Playtested against a Tau army, tied up 4 units (Broadside, Stormsurge, guy with bunch of drones and a kroot unit) for two rounds (killed kroots and broadside) which was enough for my other power hitters to get there to finish off the Stormsurge and drone guy, while bikes and dogs were going around doing "Secure objective X" cards. or going after the markerlight drones/pathfinders.