Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello there.

I just saw on the GW website thst they sold some paint for airbrushing.

Have you tried them ? I use Vallejo air but I have to order them while I may find the Citadel ones in a local store.

Thanks !

I've only used Mephiston Red so far... and it's very nice but the lack of dropper bottle is still a major setback for GW paints.

The lack of a bottle dropper will keep me from buying it. I think GW really screwed this part up.

I mean going to a dropper bottle they would need a new paint filling system which i'm sure prevented them for doing it. They aren't exactly cheap.

Yep the pot are not quite good, but with a quick check on Ali Express or Amazon it is easy to find drop bottles and transfer the paint in it...

As Gunzhard said it looks to be a good quality paint so I will give them a try I think...

They're very good, and they're so runny they're easy to just pour over into cheap ebay dropper bottles.

Does one citadel paint pot last a bit? Say like a bottle of vallejo or minitaire.

Hard to get your money's worth when you are looking at about half the pigment and waste due to no dropper bottle from this product.

Better to buy brush paint and pour into dropper bottle with distilled water, matt medium, flow aid and alcohol.
Oddly, you get a very good "out of the pot" paint for brushing on as well.

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Does one citadel paint pot last a bit? Say like a bottle of vallejo or minitaire.

Well Citadel pots are 12ml, Vallejo are 17ml, Minitaire are 30ml.

Since they are prethinned for airbrushing I'm going to assume they are probably all similar viscosity and so Citadel will run out faster than Vallejo and Minitaire. Especially since Citadel don't come in droppers to begin with, so you're more likely to waste paint as well.

Vallejo air ranges are quite good (model and game) but they are more difficult to find than Citadel. I would buy Citadel for 1-2 pots, but when I prepare bigger order I will go with Vallejo.

I think that the Citadel Air paints are awesome.

But I'll start with the cons. First, they come in pots, which SUCK for airbrush painting: the idea of pouring unused paint back into the pot is awful, and very, very often, I only want like, 2 drops of paint. It's just a mess, so I decant them into ebay dropper bottles that cost like 20 cents a piece; ironically, those bottles are actually better than the Vallejo ones. Second, it's a limited selection of the Citadel range, and many, many great Citadel colors aren't there.

Now, the little pros. The consistency is excellent: you can paint from a 0.20mm to a 0.65mm without any thinning, or you can thin it a bit if you want translucency. Both the metallic and non-metallic paints don't dry on the tip or in the airbrush under normal use situations, and the one good thing about a pot is that you can look into it and make sure that it is well-homogenized before you do anything with it. The paint, unlike Vallejo air, does not separate dramatically in short order, and doesn't require infinite agitation.

And the really big pro: the colors in the airbrush range, with the exception of a couple of unique highlight paints, are exact matches to the identically named layer, basecoat, or drybrush paint. I mean, Dawnstone Layer, Dry, and Air are the same freaking color. Leadbelcher, Balthazar Gold, Maccragge Blue... it doesn't matter, all the colors match so precisely that if you airbrush half the model with air paint, and the other half with thinned layer/base paint, you'd never be able to tell the difference.

This is not the case with a majority of the Vallejo line. If you use their airbrush paint (which I love), many, many of the great colors have no match at all in the model color line. Some of them even have the same name, but are different colors. Some don't even have a close match. The new Vallejo Air Metallics don't have any paintbrush equivalent, so your only recourse is to paint with really runny paint if you want to go that route. Often, they don't have the same glossiness.

So... why use an airbrush paint at all? Why not thin it yourself?

There are a myriad of reasons, but mostly, my answer to this is threefold. First, consistency: when I buy airbrush paint (Vallejo or Citadel) it's always the same consistency. I don't have to worry from one pot to the next that it's going to be too thin or clog up my needle because I didn't use quite enough thinner. This matters not so much on basecoats, but if I'm painting details or OSL, it's really, really beneficial to know exactly the consistency of the paint; otherwise, I have to go through a whole testing and sample rigamarole, plus, if I am using 4 paints for NMM, and they're not the SAME consistency as each other, I have to adjust the pressure for each paint.

Second, paints I thin myself separate over time much more than airbrush paints, and require a lot of agitation (sometimes a stir stick) to get them nice and homogenized again. No biggie, but it's a bunch of work popping the cap off a dropper bottle and stirring with a toothpick just to get a little sprinkle of blue.

And finally, convenience/efficiency: my time is valuable, so in a lot of cases, I would rather have the more convenient option.

But of course, it's not absolute. Generally, I use airbrush paints where it's convenient or small models or where the consistency of the paint is important; where that's not the case, like terrain, or basecoating a tank, I'll just instead use the cheaper option. Or, if I want a color that just isn't available in airbrush paint.

I'm not sure anyone cares as much as you that the paints match, Talys If I need to airbrush a paint I already own in a non-airbrush line, I just thin it. If I need to hairy brush with a paint I already own in an airbrush line, I just drop it on my palette and paint with it. At worst if the airbrush paint is too thin to get good coverage, I might lay down a basecoat of a similar but more opaque colour first, but the majority of the time in a few coats (or one thick coat when I'm feeling lazy ) I can get sufficient coverage with an airbrush paint.

The thing that makes me decide if I'll buy a paint as an AB paint or a HB paint is whether I think I'll be spraying it more frequently or hairy brushing it more frequently.

Also, you must be luckier than me with Vallejo air as far as consistency goes. I've had quite large swings in consistency from one pot to the next. Most VMA paints I thin ~3:1 paint:thinner and will clog if unthinned, but there's a few that can be sprayed straight from the pot or conversely require more heavy thinning. It's nice because it gets you closer to the correct consistency, but not fool proof.

If I want fool proof I spray enamels or self levelling lacquers, I can thin those with my eyes closed and still get good results first try because they spray over a much wider range of consistencies (though enamels prefer to be thicker and lacquers a bit thinner, the actual range is larger).

Of note I see the same issues with Vallejo Model Air but the Game Air pants have been pretty consistent and I use these typically straight from the bottle.

@Fishboy - I agree. The VMA/VMC matches are horrid; the VGA/VGC matches are much better. Part of the problem with Game Air though, is the same as Citadel Air: both are very limited in palette (Citadel even more so). For painting big armies and buildings, mixing up my own paint just isn't my thing, because I can go through tons, or have to go back and build another building a few months/years later.

@Skink - Absolute color match is not a deal killer -- after all, I used VMA for a very long time, and I still do. But I don't think anyone would deny that having a choice in matched paint in different mediums is a plus. I don't like being limited to just airbrush paints, because I think they're too runny for a lot of applications (especially fine details), and nearly useless for drybrushing.

With regards to VMA, the only paints I have problems with are the old metallics. They would clog up quite frequently. I have nearly the entire set, used up many dozens of bottles, and I've experienced very few problems with painting neat (unthinned from the dropper) on an Iwata HP-CS with a 0.35mm needle. Most of the paints will even work ok on a 0.20mm Iwata -- though I usually thin it a little so that I can run lower PSI on a 0.20mm.

I've had no issues painting directly from Citadel Air from an HP-CS or HP-BH, either (again, 0.35 and 0.20mm).

Back to the original question -- meecham... one issue with Citadel Air is that very few places actually stock it. Though of course GW and independents can both get it in really quickly. It constitutes a Web Order for independents, but, on the other hand, they can buy it in singles (with regular Citadel paints, they must buy them in packs of 6 identical paints shrink wrapped together).

One potential problem with the GW air paints is how often GW discontinues paints and colors

Yep Talys many shop can order the Citadel without cost, they just add it to their regular order.

 Talys wrote:
@Skink - Absolute color match is not a deal killer -- after all, I used VMA for a very long time, and I still do. But I don't think anyone would deny that having a choice in matched paint in different mediums is a plus. I don't like being limited to just airbrush paints, because I think they're too runny for a lot of applications (especially fine details), and nearly useless for drybrushing.

Air paints and Hairy paints are so similar in medium that it ranks very low on the list of things I care about

If we were talking about truly different mediums, like a hobby acrylic that matched an enamel paint or even better an oil paint, I'd soil myself with excitement because unlike air acrylic vs hairy acrylic where I can use them interchangeably, oil vs acrylic means there's completely different techniques I could use. For example if you had a "triad" of matching colours in acrylic, oil and enamel, base coat in the acrylic, washing with an enamel shade then blend back to the base with an oil and use the oil as the highlight. That would be awesome.

For most fine detailing I find Air paints to be a good consistency. I guess super fine details like eyes or text I might not want to use air paints, but then at the same time 99% of the time I want those super fine details to be different tonally to the rest of the model anyway (eg. I don't use the same red to paint the gems on my blood angels as I used to paint the red on the armour anyway).

I don't do a lot of drybrushing these days anyway, but you can still drybrush with air paints if you have to. It's rare that I need to, but a couple of times I've used the technique of airbrushing my base color, washing with a brown and then drybrushing the base colour. You just have to build up the pigment on the brush slowly, dip it in the paint, wipe it off on an absorbent tissue, pick up a bit more paint, wipe it off, repeat a few times and you'll be good to drybrush it.

But I find it's a rare occurrence that you (or at least me) NEED a drybrush colour or a fine detail colour to match an airbrush colour, more often I actually want them to be subtly different anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I have tons of paints, I probably have close to a hundred greys, greens and browns and always have a handful or reds, handful of blues, handful of purples, etc. With all those paints none of of my "air" paints are a perfect match for one of my "hairy" paints for the simple reason it almost never comes up that I actually want or need them to match.

EDIT: I don't mean to take away from your point that it's a nice thing the paints match. It's just you often list it, as in this thread, "a really big pro", to me it's a only minor positive, I think if many people thought about it for a while they'd realise they don't need their air paints to match their hairy paints. Especially with many airbrushing techniques that use transparency or blending you don't have the option of doing a hairy brush touch up anyway.

With regards to VMA, the only paints I have problems with are the old metallics. They would clog up quite frequently. I have nearly the entire set, used up many dozens of bottles, and I've experienced very few problems with painting neat (unthinned from the dropper) on an Iwata HP-CS with a 0.35mm needle. Most of the paints will even work ok on a 0.20mm Iwata -- though I usually thin it a little so that I can run lower PSI on a 0.20mm.

My only thought then is either the Iwata brushes have reasonably steep tapers on the needles and wider air cones.... or Vallejo sends crap paints to Australia I have 2 brushes, one is a 0.35mm needle with a dual taper and the other is a fine detail brush, also 0.35 but with a long single taper (the taper is as important if not moreso than the actual diameter). Of the 30 or so VMA I've tried, only a handful I'd even consider spraying neat for fear of clogs, and even of those I'd still thin them to avoid tip dry and spatter.

I have heard good things about their paints, but as everyone on here has said, the lack of a dropper bottle makes them kill.

IMO, just get vellejo game air, about the same price, and comes in a dropper bottle. Just take a look at the conversion chart.

I had harassed GW a few times about if their paints have "Chromium" in them.
That stuff is very bad when sprayed (cancer causing).
I never got a good answer out of them.
This is why I like Liquitex when I "experiment" because they list the ingredients.

 Talizvar wrote:
I had harassed GW a few times about if their paints have "Chromium" in them.
I never got a good answer out of them.

That's strange, because companies that sell any material that is considered potentially hazardous to human health, which in practice just about means anything that is not intended for human consumption, are required by EU, US, and Canada laws to provide a Safety Data Sheet upon request. In the US it's referred to as "Right to know".

Even if the material does not technically have any hazardous chemicals, companies typically publish a safety data sheet stating such. For example, from Game Workshop's old base colour paint line the general hazard statement was, The product does not have to be labelled due to the calculation procedure of the "General Classification guideline for preparations of the EU" in the latest valid version. In other words, it should not make you sick or pose any measurable risk to your health, your pets health, or the environment except in very large amounts. Furthermore it recommends, The usual precautionary measures are to be adhered to when handling chemicals.

I am pretty confident that if you called their customer service or went into a GW store, they could hook you up.

There is chromium everywhere around you, so you are exposed whatever you do. There are several forms of chromium and some are most dangerous than others. By the way you have to wear a mask when you use an airbrush because of the solvents.

I thought Cadmium was the worser one. I don't know if Cadmium has to be listed or not as it's only dangerous to inhale, it's fine in paint that is only going to be brushed on, so I don't know if it has to be listed because of that.

Cadmium, mercury, lead, chromium, nickel... are all heavy metals and dangerous for human health. No problem with the liquid paint but just keep in mind to wash your hands (if you are a bad painter like me) if you have paint one. Airbrush paint is quite volatile and should be used wit care.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
I had harassed GW a few times about if their paints have "Chromium" in them.
I never got a good answer out of them.

That's strange, because companies that sell any material that is considered potentially hazardous to human health, which in practice just about means anything that is not intended for human consumption, are required by EU, US, and Canada laws to provide a Safety Data Sheet upon request. In the US it's referred to as "Right to know".

Even if the material does not technically have any hazardous chemicals, companies typically publish a safety data sheet stating such. For example, from Game Workshop's old base colour paint line the general hazard statement was, The product does not have to be labelled due to the calculation procedure of the "General Classification guideline for preparations of the EU" in the latest valid version. In other words, it should not make you sick or pose any measurable risk to your health, your pets health, or the environment except in very large amounts. Furthermore it recommends, The usual precautionary measures are to be adhered to when handling chemicals.

I am pretty confident that if you called their customer service or went into a GW store, they could hook you up.

Update - contacted GW customer service and got all of their current safety data sheets for all of their paints within less than 24 hours. Surveying by types, i.e. metallic, base, layers, shades, etc., I didn't see anything that would be of any real concern, assuming of course you don't drink buckets of the stuff. Also cadmium nor chromium were listed as ingredients and typically any "hazardous" substance made up less than 2.5%.

They do all include typical warnings/precautions such as it may irritate your eyes, etc.

Yep, deserve a slap for that one.
I meant the Cadmium.
I am glad they are more forthcoming now.
I asked at the time they released that "flamer" airbrush of theirs.
It could be likely their last reformulation of paints addressed those concerns.
I thought of it as an easy thing to mess up since in normal brush applications Cadmium is not a concern.
As you were...

I actually questioned that as well since the one airbrush paint I wanted was a red and I know the non airbrush Vallejo reds have a 'do not spray' sticker on them. With GW's current customer interaction setup I was never able to speak to anyone who had any idea what was in the paints.