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Just got back from my game store and I feel like gak. One of my friends was helping me try out my new guard army, we were playing 1000 points, vs his admech. I tell him I'm going to be running a lot of vehicles (2 chimeras, a russ, a deathstrike, and a wyvern), be able to take that out, as well as 50 guardsmen (CCS, PCS, 3x infantry and a vet). So (pardon my 0 knowledge of admech) he brings 2 of those T7 robots with 2 characters in the squad, 6 of those things on treads, and some allied skitarii with the haywire guns. I already do notice the huge difference in numbers but didn't think anything of it at the time.

Long story short, I shoot first turn, wyvern wipes out a squad, LR does some wounds, he fires back and kills a lone guardsmen, 2 HP on chimera. Turn 2 I drop the deathstrike, kill 3 of those tread things and kill a T7 robot, all of my other collective shooting kills off everything but a lone thing on treads and the two characters, at this point he forfeits.

I wiped out a 1000 point army and he only kills a chimera and a lone guardsman? Was this just obscene luck, was I running a cheese list for 1000, was he running a bad list for 1000? What happened??? It just left such a sour taste in my mouth, especially since it took longer to get out, set up, and move turn 1 all my guardsman than it took to play out the rest of the game.

Your running guardsmen its hardly cheese, if you told him what you were taking beforehand then don't feel bad. Imperial guard is only an average army so I assume probably a mix of luck and good generalling on your part or bad luck for him or bad generalling on his part.

Its ok to feel bad, games like that suck for both parties it just means you have empathy which is normal

You took a death strike. There was no cheese, just dumb luck.

Rather new to playing this edition, but from what I have seen in my local area, IG are never cheese, unless you have 5 allied Knights or something along those lines. I think you just got really lucky. T7 models are rather hard to remove to so good for you.

Guard v ad mech is a pretty poor matchup for admech. Even in an optimized convocation list they tend to bring fairly large amounts of weapons that guard doesn't care about like grav.

Ad mech is made to be anti heavy armor troops and tanks. Now there's units he can take that can work vs swarms but looks like he did not have them

 Griddlelol wrote:
You took a death strike. There was no cheese, just dumb luck.

It actually did bugger all, it only killed 2 of the (I know the names now) kataphrons and did a wound apiece to the kastelans. Seems like a fair trade points wise, as a deathstrike is useless after it fires the missile (outside of silly ramming shenanigans).


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Reavas wrote:
Imperial guard is only an average army so I assume probably a mix of luck and good generalling on your part or bad luck for him or bad generalling on his part.

Some bad luck and generalling on his part since he didn't use cover enough and had some bad saving rolls, and extremely awesome luck on my part when one of my chimeras made 3 successful 6+ night fight saves. Sadly no good generalling on my part as I had no clue what I was doing, my first game using them.

He knew what was coming. I wouldn't feel bad that his list was bad. He should have taken Skitarii onagers dagoons and haywire vangaurd and destroyed you. Don't feel bad you beat him, maybe just help him make a list or tell him to post it on dakka if you want more competitive play


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I believe depending on what he took the breachers even have a haywire gun.

marcman wrote:
I believe depending on what he took the breachers even have a haywire gun.

I don't know why, but he ran them as plasma and grav. I guess the plasma blasts might have done something against my guardsmen, but he kept firing everything at my chimeras flying towards him as the guard were barely in range of shooting back, and they barely did any damage to my chimeras (cover saves helped me a lot). He immobilized one, but it was already in his face and parked in cover (and full of melta). I just really don't get what he hoped to do with the grav, since even if he took out the tanks they're trash against guard. He did ally some skitarii with haywire, but they went down instantly to the wyvern and lasgun arrays.

Now he wants an 1850 rematch with that cheesy free 700 points formation

Here's what I woulda taken just on the fly:
3x10 vangaurd with Omnispex and 3 arc rifles (-1 to cover and 6 haywire shots)
1x5 sicarian rust stalkers (Str 5 on charge w/ haywire gernaids)
1x2 dagoon (Str 8 on charge w/ av 11)
2x1 onager w/ neutron Lazer (Str 10 ap 1 blast)
Even leaves 55 points left over to give the vangaurd alpha arc mauls.
This brings tons of fire power (vangaurd will make you roll 20 wounds) and CC (dagoons and ruststalkers will crush all) to chew through IG and pop vehicles with the onagers shooting in the back focusing whatever is the greatest threat. Ez win if I get in range of your vehicle's. I do have scout so if playing on a 4x4 it would be a really ez game
The only thing Cult could bring would be cohort cybernetics cause torrent flamers = ig death, but that's a 750 point dump for trolls. Other than that Destroyers are why I take them, and grav won't help vs IG


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Ha-ha I found Skitarii get progressively worse in bigger battles acause of lack of range and transports. 1850 will be an easy win if you can stay outta range

marcman wrote:
Ha-ha I found Skitarii get progressively worse in bigger battles acause of lack of range and transports. 1850 will be an easy win if you can stay outta range

He asked me to go "no holds barred", so I'm thoroughly considering an Azrael guard blob for laughs.

I've found a Guard gunline to be pretty dang hard at smaller point values.

Think of it this way...the size of the board should accurately reflect the size of the fight. At 1000 points, 4x6 is a lot of territory to cross (of course I'm thinking from an Ork perspective.) I think the guard's ranges do quite nicely on a 4x6 board, and if the guard deploys well it can be tough for anything to get to them.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I've found a Guard gunline to be pretty dang hard at smaller point values.

Think of it this way...the size of the board should accurately reflect the size of the fight. At 1000 points, 4x6 is a lot of territory to cross (of course I'm thinking from an Ork perspective.) I think the guard's ranges do quite nicely on a 4x6 board, and if the guard deploys well it can be tough for anything to get to them.

Given the fact that I don't run drop pods in my C:SM army, I also find IG to be difficult to play against. Too many boots on the ground and too many pie plates.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I've found a Guard gunline to be pretty dang hard at smaller point values.

Think of it this way...the size of the board should accurately reflect the size of the fight. At 1000 points, 4x6 is a lot of territory to cross (of course I'm thinking from an Ork perspective.) I think the guard's ranges do quite nicely on a 4x6 board, and if the guard deploys well it can be tough for anything to get to them.

It was my first time using them, was deploying first, so I just blobbed up a big line in the middle of the board, about 2/3 of it in cover, put my tanks behind that, and ran chimeras up the flanks. Is that a difficult setup to deal with, or did he deploy poorly? Plus most of his army other than the robots was ranged.


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Traditio wrote:
Given the fact that I don't run drop pods in my C:SM army, I also find IG to be difficult to play against. Too many boots on the ground and too many pie plates.

Is a russ, a wyvern, and a deathstrike (that only got two kills) that hard to deal with?

Other than that I just had two chimeras, and even those he failed to pop.

kingbobbito wrote:Is a russ, a wyvern, and a deathstrike (that only got two kills) that hard to deal with?

Other than that I just had two chimeras, and even those he failed to pop.

My comments weren't really a propos your army list.

I ultimately don't know enough about your units or your opponents units to make a fair assessment either way.

That said, I do remember pretty much every game I've played vs. IG giving me the impression: "Stomm! I am outnumbered and outgunned!"

...

...

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Still better than playing against Tau!

Edit: And to be perfectly fair, my army list was horribly suboptimal on the times that I played against IG.

I think this was more a case of your opponent bringing a bad list than your list being op... Then again I don't know a lot about IG so...

I don't think you should feel bad, but that you even do and are considering this is speaks (a positive) to your character as a gamer You sound like a fine opponent to me and hope your games are always enjoyable.

I also have an all CultMech army and I got wiped this week helping a guy prep his tournament list and he felt bad too at some devastating effects but it's legit and Mechanicus by themselves, though we have many tools, just don't possess the array the SMs do.

I hardly see how your list is cheese. The collective shooting of your entire list should not have been able to kill the 2 robots + 2 characters by turn 2. The characters have +2 armor saves and it seems you not that much AP2. Any AP2 could have been look-out sir'ed onto the 5++/5+++ kastellan robots.

On top of that your opponent dedicated a large amount of points to a very small models. That's asking for trouble.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:
You took a death strike. There was no cheese, just dumb luck.

It actually did bugger all, it only killed 2 of the (I know the names now) kataphrons and did a wound apiece to the kastelans. Seems like a fair trade points wise, as a deathstrike is useless after it fires the missile (outside of silly ramming shenanigans).

That's exactly my point. Your list was a fairly weak list, you winning was nothing to do with cheese, or being a TFG who only brings the most powerful stuff. There's no reason to ever feel bad for winning if you bring a Deathstrike, they're like the worst thing in the dex.

Perhaps I may offer a suggestion?

Your list is quite weak but perhaps playing on a board with more LOS blocking terrain would help and make the gun line a little less effective?

I've been on the recieving end of an absolute tonking, and have dished them out. These things happen. If you told him what you were taking before you played or before he had even picked his army then you have been more than sporting.
I'd wager he'll learn more from the loss than had he won.