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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 10:27:15
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I had the pleasure of playing against a Chaos Demons flying circus recently and I wanted to find out how do people (especially experienced tourney players) deal with these types of armies esp. if they do not play Chaos Daemons themselves.
The issue:
1. Lots of rolls on a number of random tables for rewards and psychic powers. The player in question had rolled a number of psychic powers on his 4 flying DPs and 1 Kairos - which was fine as I am familiar with the tables (it helped that he had the rulebook open as well). He did not however have his Daemon book open and made a number of rolls which he declared to be certain powers. By the very end, I noted the rolls he made for some critical powers mentally (e.g. reroll invulnerables) and then resolved to check this at the end of the game. Unfortunately, the roll did not match the power per the table :(
2. By the time I had clarified special rules and what his rewards / artefacts did, we had started late in the game. The other issue was the casting of powers and marking down what each unit did. I mentioned that we should do this as we were getting into disagreements as to what buffs each unit had. I did so for my units, but he did not do it for his own in the end.
3. Placement of objectives on impassable terrain. I should have caught this but didnt. I blame myself. Can gliding monsters land in impassable?
4. Counting of maelstrom points. This was another piece of book keeping that got immensely burdensome together with the psychic powers.
5. In the end we got to turn 3 and a hard fought draw. Good thing is that we agreed ahead where the game was going to end.
The question is how do you get the opposing player to get the book keeping right at the start (which will take up lots of time) while ensuring there is enough game time?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 11:18:36
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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As someone who plays both Tyranids with lots of psychers and Daemons, I dont think keeping all of my powers written on a sheet of paper is very fair to my opponent. So what I've done with my armies for the last few GT's is take a picture of each Psycher and then put them on a printout.
So when I roll psychic powers I then place the psychic card beneath each psychers picture. Heres one from Killadelphia last year:
This takes so much less time and I do the same thing with daemons and their gifts. All of my opponents have been very appreciative thus far.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 13:02:40
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I would be incredibly appreciative as well.
I think the issue is also the rolls on the greater, lesser and exalted rewards tables. Each DP for example rolls 3 psychic powers and then 2 rewards? I might have gotten that wrong.
The sheer number of rolls are hard to keep track of while ensuring that gameplay also occurs on time. I should have ensured that I wrote down what he rolled as well to ensure that I understood which DP had what.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 19:07:31
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Fixture of Dakka
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I (used to) use preprinted tables, with every option & every possible result listed for every psyker or unit w/random items (these would of course match up with the book tables, which were also available to my opponent). I also included a brief summary of each option for anything book-specific.
Say what I'm rolling for, roll, check appropriate box. Repeat. Put the completed results in the middle of the space between us, where they are available to everyone.
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Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 19:15:05
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I have the ITC Missions all laminated for ease of use for practice games. I took this one step further and have the Psychic powers all on a single spread sheet with lines for each Psyker, also laminated so I can easily mark and erase it each game. On the opposite side I have the Deepstrike Mishap table and Perils of the Warp table. It's also laminated.
I have also done what Janthkin did with pre printed sheets that were disposable after each game. In fact i got the idea from him when I played against him at a con 4 or so years ago. it was Psychic Daemons against Psychic Daemons, he was so much better organized.
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Las Vegas Open Head Judge
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings or pride, but your credentials matter. Even on the internet.
"If you do not have the knowledge, you do not have the right to the opinion." -Plato
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 19:32:16
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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It sounds like the list you faced is the Infernal Tetrad (of which there are tons of threads about right now). Whenever I field this, I have a printed army list with space below each Prince's entry for powers & rewards. Even with a list as complicated as the Tetrad, a player who KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING should not take more than 10 mins to finish all of their rolling.
As I roll them, I always have my codex out and show my opponent as I write them down.
In general, I do not play against people's armies I am unfamiliar with UNLESS they have ALL the source materials with them. Every tourney I have every been in requires this.
If your opponent did not have their codex (especially one as random as Daemons) you should have called a judge to make a ruling or disqualify them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/04 19:35:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 20:11:40
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Regular Dakkanaut
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My opponent knew that I did not know the Daemon's codex that well when I started asking questions and I think that might have prompted this behaviour.
I will taking this as a lesson and to insist that any rolling be done against the source material rather than feel bad about it afterwards. That way I will have done myself justice. The sheer number of unique rules that Daemons have are overwhelming - they have a number of effects that you dont see covered by the universal rules in the rulebook.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/04 23:31:50
Subject: Tournament games against Chaos Daemons or other Book-keeping heavy armies
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Grumpy Longbeard
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Nidzrule! wrote: Unfortunately, the roll did not match the power per the table :(
Not cool.
If an opponent asked to see my codex while I roll I wouldn't mind, I would actually prefer it, because making sure your opponent is following and explaining things is what takes longest (I don't cheat though, be wary of an opponent that will not show you his rules).
Also I know which numbers I would reroll beforehand so i don't need the codex.
I have tokens for each psyker that I put on my power cards and tokens with numbers on that I leave on the model's base for rewards (I only roll for greater rewards).
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