Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I haven't really played ITC missions that much, which I know is what my American Bredren play predominately. And I'm heading that way shortly. And I'm just wondering - would this CAD approach to Eldar work well at ITC events, and if not: why not! (I'll probably end up bringing more Spiders, but the gimp on the jump at ITC makes me wary.

Eldar CAD

Eldrad (warlord)
Farseer (skyrunner, spear)
5 Wraithguard (D Scythes, Wave Serpent with scatterlaser)
3 Windriders (Scatterlasers)
3 Windriders (Scatterlasers)
3 Windriders (Scatterlasers)
3 Windriders (Scatterlasers)
3 Windriders (Scatterlasers)
3 Windriders (Scatterlasers)
3 Vauls Wrath (D)
3 Vauls Wrath (D)
3 Vauls Wrath (D)
Wraithknight (Heavy D Cannons, 1 Scatterlaser)

With the WK cover nerf, I'm tempted to take the big guy with sword and board, But not built one that way (mine all have guns!)

ITC also weaken D to max 3 on a 6 so sword and board is better. The list looks nasty to me. The spider nerf just makes it so you can shoot them unnerfed WS are broken as hell

Do the D Scythes get needed in ITC formats? Since they already get a minus one, I'm guessing they get played the same? And are actually buffed by lack of proper invis?

Distortion Scythes are more powerful because of the invis nerf, really liking the list although I'd use a sword and board Wraithknight for survivability and throw fortune on it and use it for table control. I'd also be tempted to either get another shoulder gun for the knight or forgo them altogether so I don't get trapped into shooting something I cannot subsequently charge.

Also does your Wave serpent have the underslung Shuriken cannon? if not I'd drop the scatter laser turret and the singing spear for it just to squeeze some more firepower out of it.

If able I would swap the D-Cannon for Skatatch. The template ignores Invisibility and is a key cover save denier in tandem with ranged D being nerfed in ITC.

I do love Spiders myself, but the single jump is pretty relevant. They've done phenomenally regardless of this change but don't pack quite the same punch.

 Cieged wrote:
If able I would swap the D-Cannon for Skatatch. The template ignores Invisibility and is a key cover save denier in tandem with ranged D being nerfed in ITC.

I do love Spiders myself, but the single jump is pretty relevant. They've done phenomenally regardless of this change but don't pack quite the same punch.

I've got a fair bit of FW stuff, including a kitbashed Knight that Can definitely be played as Skathnach (which I have the rules for and love). How are people generally with Forgeworld..?

 Cieged wrote:
If able I would swap the D-Cannon for Skatatch. The template ignores Invisibility and is a key cover save denier in tandem with ranged D being nerfed in ITC.

I do love Spiders myself, but the single jump is pretty relevant. They've done phenomenally regardless of this change but don't pack quite the same punch.

Yeah I wouldn't got for the Hellstorm template, if I'm remembering correctly they don't allow them... besides I don't think it has torrent does it?

It doesn't really need torrent. The template is 18" long and aWK moves 12". So it has a 30" threat range. And with two Hellstorm templates wounding most things on 2s and with pseudo rending it deals with big units that might otherwise tarpit the WK quite nicely.

I'm an ITC veteran** here in California, since its inception a few years ago, so my input carries some weight, I think.

a. Wraith Knight - Go Sword and Board. Getting Cover is gonna be hard and the meta is lovely fun full of GravGuns and Psy-Shriek. I think the h2h WK is better. The shooty WK gets two shots with D guns (ITC nerfed) per turn, but when swinging a glaive it's 4 opportunities to Destroyer something into oblivion. More than the 5 solvos of shooting in a game, because he's winging in h2h on the opponent's turn, too. 10 D shots and no Invuln Save versus 16 (cutting out Turn 1 Assault) swings, and possibly more on opponent's turn, with his sword, and a 5++.

Putting dual ScatLas on him is a reasonable upgrade.

b. Frankly, 18 Scatbikes is a really fragile glass hammer. If you think about it, your opponent just needs to kill 2 (nearly) full tactical marine squads. Not hard, even with Jinks, Farseer & Eldrad buffage aside. Your Alpha smack is gonna be a Freight Train (18x4 shots!) , but the WK's Seize the Initiative +1 for a LoW is going to cut you 1/3 the time. And if you start out going 2nd, then you have to play Reserves. Far more chancy.

I have been fielding up to 12 bikes since the codex's release. I know their Ins and Outs.

So, by situation, if you get a lot of LoS blocking and hiding opportunities to start with the 18 on the table, reasonably safe from the opponent's first turn shooting, then good. But since you're traveling Across the Pond, you might not have the best idea of the terrain layouts ... well, you'll see that at each battle.

c. Vaul's - 24" is not that big (spread with the 3 units *does* make it far bigger, but). It makes for reasonable board control on Big Guns and Crusade missions, but I think reaching into the Codex for other tools might be a good idea. I'd go with one battery.

Far fewer bikes. Got Spiders? Got Hawks?

My guess is you'll have one sided games. Feast or Famine.

Gonna travel all the way to California?

**
I win roughly 50% of my games. Season advice accordingly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, I missed your comment about spiders:

 Kholzerino wrote:
(I'll probably end up bringing more Spiders, but the gimp on the jump at ITC makes me wary.

One, I wouldn't note the difference about the single FlickerJump use, because I've only used it as a single jump per turn. More than one use per turn would be insanely awesome.

It's still crazy good with just one jump and a little careful planning/placement. I'm finishing painting spiders 21-30, if that's any indicator to you.

Interesting. Had no idea about the +1 to seize the initiative. I really wonder if it is worth it... I should probably read the latest version of the ITC pack.

Thinking Reapers with tempest launcher will be good. Maybe I will bring some of them and go super MSU... That's always a fun way to play if you aren't using kill points in every mission. I usually play Seercouncil, but with the invis/reroll nerf THAT won't work. And I have played mass spider spam (45 spiders) but ITC nerfs the crap out of that too (no repeats of formations, right?

No wonder Gladius is strong over there. Ho hum. I'll have a think and a play. Maybe no big toys. Do most places allow Forgeworld, or is that verboten?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(By the way. Planwiththe Vaul's is to scout move them with Eldrad's warlord trait, thus making them no longer 24" range turn one.)

 Kholzerino wrote:
Thinking Reapers with tempest launcher will be good. Maybe I will bring some of them and go super MSU... That's always a fun way to play if you aren't using kill points in every mission.

So very useful.

 Kholzerino wrote:
I usually play Seercouncil, but with the invis/reroll nerf THAT won't work. And I have played mass spider spam (45 spiders) but ITC nerfs the crap out of that too (no repeats of formations, right?

Wrong. The LVO winner had 2 Aspect Hosts fulla spiders and the Pale Court's allowance of more. I ran 45 spiders at my last tourney, with both sets as Aspect Host.

 Kholzerino wrote:
No wonder Gladius is strong over there. Ho hum. I'll have a think and a play. Maybe no big toys. Do most places allow Forgeworld, or is that verboten?

ITC has a banned list for various LoW.

You really ought to read their tourney format & FAQ:
http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/

Yes. I know Mr Harrison's list. So I guess spiders must be okay. And if I bring a super Forgeworld list to me will I be able to get games with it in Los Angeles? I've got a cool FW Warhost army and I could just pack that and bring it...(I've got a lot of Eldar)

 Kholzerino wrote:
Yes. I know Mr Harrison's list. So I guess spiders must be okay. And if I bring a super Forgeworld list to me will I be able to get games with it in Los Angeles? I've got a cool FW Warhost army and I could just pack that and bring it...(I've got a lot of Eldar)

I pretty much just find time to play the monthly tourney at my FLGS, 2nd saturday of the month and a few garage games. Game Empire Pasadena. The San Diego GE is a good store with good guys, too.

If your LoW is on the ITC's permitted list, then it really opens up for you.

When you get close to arriving, gimme a PM and I will try to see to it that you get plenty of kdk, Battle Co. and other soft opponents to face.

So it seems like this is a legal ITC list, can easily fit these models in my luggage!

Pale Host

Core
Autarch (skyrunner, fusion gun)
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch

Aspect Host
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch

Aspect Host
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch
5 Warp Spiders, Exarch

Hornet Swarm
3 Hornets

Hornet Swarm
3 Hornets

Wraith Construct
Skathach Wraithknight (1 x Deathshroud Cannon, Scattershield, Scatterlaser)

I like that list a great deal more. Have you experimented with double versus single Deathshroud? I've heard double is worthwhile, however the ITC also requires Gargantuans to have 25% cover as opposed to dipping a toe on area.