Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why is Ghaz, the biggest and baddest Ork since the time of the Emperor only T5? I mean I can make my Ork Boyz T5 just by giving them a Warbike, or really insulting I can make a lower level Warboss T6 by giving him a warbike.

Outside of the new formation that allows ghaz to Waaagh every turn you will never see him except in exceptionally fluffy lists. Why dear god why is he so horrible?

That's a very good and as of yet unanswered question.

Because GW doesn't care

SemperMortis wrote:
Why is Ghaz, the biggest and baddest Ork since the time of the Emperor only T5? I mean I can make my Ork Boyz T5 just by giving them a Warbike, or really insulting I can make a lower level Warboss T6 by giving him a warbike.

Outside of the new formation that allows ghaz to Waaagh every turn you will never see him except in exceptionally fluffy lists. Why dear god why is he so horrible?

Marneus Calgar is only T4. Like all other non-bike space marines.

Why should your ork warboss be 2 toughness higher than Big Papa Smurf?

Smurfs don't keep getting bigger and bigger like orks do. OP is correct that Ghazzy is the biggest since the Beast. He's like the size of a dreadnought.

Edit add: be neat if he became a monstrous creature

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Why is Ghaz, the biggest and baddest Ork since the time of the Emperor only T5? I mean I can make my Ork Boyz T5 just by giving them a Warbike, or really insulting I can make a lower level Warboss T6 by giving him a warbike.

Outside of the new formation that allows ghaz to Waaagh every turn you will never see him except in exceptionally fluffy lists. Why dear god why is he so horrible?

Marneus Calgar is only T4. Like all other non-bike space marines.

Why should your ork warboss be 2 toughness higher than Big Papa Smurf?

Because Orks continue to grow as they get older. The more they fight and the more they win the bigger and stronger they get. Put it another way, an Ork who was overlord over a big portion of the galaxy was strong enough to duel the emperor and almost won. So since Ghaz is the biggest/strongest since that particular ork you think he would be a bit better then a regular Warboss, especially when you factor in a warboss is like 45pts and ghaz is about 200pts more expensive

They never adjusted his toughness as more and more powerful weapons have been added to the game.

He should be a monstrous creature.

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
He should be a monstrous creature.

I agree with that 100%, he should be a monstrous creature. He might be worth his points if he was a MC and if he was T6 or T7. If some ridiculous looking Eldar Wraithknight can be T8 I think Ghaz should be T7

Honestly, T6 wouldn't be nearly enough to fix ghaz.

I mean, for example,......is papa smurf markedly better than a chapter master? I honestly don't know, but I assume he is.

Is abbadaon markedly better than a chaos lord? I think that's a hand-down hell yes.

Is dante markedly better than a BA jump pack chapter master? Again, I think hell yes.

Is ghaz markedly better than a mega armor warboss? Not really. For double the price, you get +1 WS, +1A, +1W, eternal warrior a different gun, and a good waaagh ability. That's pretty much it. If you wanted, you could give a mega armor warboss da super cybork for FNP & EW and still be about 50 points cheaper and almost as good.

To me, ghaz would need: At-initiative power klaw, he and his unit permanently swap S&P for relentless, long as he's alive, and I don't know about everyone else but I'd swap his one turn only 2++ for a constant 4++. T6 would make sense, fluff wise, but not sure if that would be very balanced. He'd be almost as durable as a tyrannofex you can hide in a group of meganobz.

Anyways, I don't know why ghaz sucks so much. But you could reasonably ask that of much of the ork codex, and I think the honest answer is that no one at GW bothered to even half-ass it.

There's so much that doesn't make sense, I really think that the people who wrote it have never even played orks, much less the game in general.

Pappa Smurf isnt very good. You can build him as a regular HQ for cheaper.

Although SM do have Chaplain Casius (?) who is T6 I belive

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Honestly, T6 wouldn't be nearly enough to fix ghaz.

I mean, for example,......is papa smurf markedly better than a chapter master? I honestly don't know, but I assume he is.

Is abbadaon markedly better than a chaos lord? I think that's a hand-down hell yes.

Is dante markedly better than a BA jump pack chapter master? Again, I think hell yes.

Is ghaz markedly better than a mega armor warboss? Not really. For double the price, you get +1 WS, +1A, +1W, eternal warrior a different gun, and a good waaagh ability. That's pretty much it. If you wanted, you could give a mega armor warboss da super cybork for FNP & EW and still be about 50 points cheaper and almost as good.

To me, ghaz would need: At-initiative power klaw, he and his unit permanently swap S&P for relentless, long as he's alive, and I don't know about everyone else but I'd swap his one turn only 2++ for a constant 4++. T6 would make sense, fluff wise, but not sure if that would be very balanced. He'd be almost as durable as a tyrannofex you can hide in a group of meganobz.

Or conversely you could run 2 Warbosses with Mega Armor, one with DLS and a Painboy in the same unit and you would still be under the cost of Ghaz and you would dominate him in a CC fight .

Anyways, I don't know why ghaz sucks so much. But you could reasonably ask that of much of the ork codex, and I think the honest answer is that no one at GW bothered to even half-ass it.

There's so much that doesn't make sense, I really think that the people who wrote it have never even played orks, much less the game in general.

I think that sums it up perfectly. I would love to write the next codex for GW, hell I will do it for half the price of whatever idiot they gave it to last time and I will not only do a better job, but i'll make the company money because the Ork players will actually want to buy more units that would then be WORTH taking.

Because he's severely outdated, that's why.

 Anfauglir wrote:
Because he's severely outdated, that's why.

This, soo many times this.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because GW doesn't care

Bingo

He's also got the same leadership as the standard Warboss which is quite infuriating, and no Fearless other than when he calls his Waaagh!. It would be great to see him T6 and LD 10. He's (supposed to be) tough as hell and has enough leadership to organise a galaxy-spanning Waaagh! larger than any for millennia, blessed by Gork and Mork themselves, greener than green - represented on the table top by a lack of invulnerable save and the ability to be sweeping advanced.

He's probably quite good in the Great Waaagh-band where he can get that permanent 2++, but you better be glad your whole army can run and charge each turn because you won't have enough points left over to actually shoot at anything.

GW probably think he's a real fan favourite because we all own the model, not realising that it's only because there's no other MA Warboss available.

Maybe when GW moves to the end times and brings back the Primarchs, daemon and good, they will make Gazza the size and stats he should be

 Anfauglir wrote:
Because he's severely outdated, that's why.

And yet we had a new codex come out like 2 years ago and instead of updating him they nerfed him into UN-playability.

Or maybe you people are just overestimating Ghaz?

(In which case the solution of making him cheaper seems fine.)

It's not like he has 'T6' written in his lore.

I remember Ghaz from my 5th ed codex and he seemed fine. Going back to that would be okay with me.

In fact, from what I hear the 5th ed codex is better in general.