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So these armies currently don't have any box sets (aside from the eldar battle force and dark vengeance, which I'm not necessarily interested in) that are on par with the other armies that have "get started" boxes. I will probably end up fighting Tau (sigh) and was looking for a starting point to match my friend who's going to use the "get started" for Tau. I'm not trying get to go OP or whatever because it's just for starting but....to be honest, I don't want to handicap myself in the process and would like a fighting chance. I'd love some suggestions for force composition!

Thanks!

-Z

The DA battleforce is still available for around the cost of a "getting started" set and has some pretty decent value - an attack bike, 3 black knights, and a land speeder, all of which Ravenwing will use.

That's definitely a good thought! How do you think it would fair against the Tau starter?

Thanks for the rain!

-Z

 Zadkiel wrote:
That's definitely a good thought! How do you think it would fair against the Tau starter?

Thanks for the rain!

-Z

How do you think an elite force that relies on cover saves to survive is going to fare against an army that ignores the things that keep you alive? Not sure if I'd even bother deploying my bikes against space commies. Just shake hands and call it a day.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Zadkiel wrote:
That's definitely a good thought! How do you think it would fair against the Tau starter?

Thanks for the rain!

-Z

How do you think an elite force that relies on cover saves to survive is going to fare against an army that ignores the things that keep you alive? Not sure if I'd even bother deploying my bikes against space commies. Just shake hands and call it a day.

Sort of agree but not really, the big issue here is that you won't be able to counter the Crisis suits drop in and he'll markerlight one unit, prob the bikes, all to hell and then blast it with AP2. It basically comes down to 1 Do I go first? Did he deploy close enough to shoot? Did I kill all his markerlights/most of his warriors. If the answer is nno then you lose, if yes then you wipe out the crisis suits and laugh as the fiire warriors plink off your armor.

There is a simple, popular solution. Break squads up into small units, rather than big ones. There is only so many things he can shoot in a turn with marker lights.

Those are very accurate and depressing assessments of what is probably going to happen. I hate to get discouraged before I even hit the table, but you all painted a pretty picture of bloody black armor....


-Z

The existence of the Dark Angels and Blood Angels Battleforces does not preclude them from releasing Start Collecting boxes for those armies. The Space Marine Battleforce was discontinued when the Start Collecting set came out. I imagine the same will happen to the DA and BA Battleforces if Start Collecting sets come out

I think a BA SC box could go a number of ways. A Death Company formation with the Jump Pack Chaplain, a squad or two of Death Company, and a Death Company Dreadnought is one. They could also do something like release a Sanguinary Priest, a Tactical Squad, and a Rhino/Razorback kit. Or they could put Karlaen, a squad of BA Assault Terminators, and a Furioso Dreadnought in a box.

Dark Angels Ravenwing can definately handle Tau. If you have bike and speeder in MSU you basically get tons of units and Tau can have reel trouble getting enough markerlight or even firepower to make it matter before you smash them hard.

My friends Tau army is the only one I do not feel like a complete gak when I play because he can at least answer back againts my rerollable cover save and deny it.

I'm currently holding 7 wins in a row againts him on multiple point level from 500 to 1500 thanks to psychic and mobility superiority with my Ravenwing list.

I would like to see GW release the other Started Collecting! soon.

Initially I'd only be using what comes in the ravenwing battle force which is 3 bikes, and attack bike and a landspeeder. Though I dont think it'd be unfair to include an hq of some kind since all the starters have one. Still a little worried about the numbers but maybe it'd be ok...

-Z

I'm not a Sisters of Battle expert, but I have a friend who plays them as her main army. I think this'd be pretty close in points to the Tau starter set

5 Battle Sisters: heavy flamer, flamer
Repressor
5 Dominions: 4 meltaguns
Immolator (twin linked meltaguns)
Celestine

What ever you do, do not get in to CSM right now. It's in flux and not in any good way. Get back to it if it ever get's a new codex and it still interests you.

I'm not really sure that going that direction is very fair-ish lol going with all the extra stuff plus Celestine seems a bit much. Just trying to find a balance between what you did and not getting run over by pulse shots.

I'm hesitant to go chaos marines for that same reason mentioned, just not much to get excited about as much as I do like them.

Anyone have any thoughts on a Dark eldar "get started" force? I think I could get into them....but again, looking for a starter sized force like the box sets offer, that has a fighting chance against the Tau starter.

Thanks!

-Z

For Dark Eldar?
Maybe a Homonculus, a squad Wracks and a kabalite warrior squad and a Raider

Thanks for the reply! That could work decently! I think at the moment I'm most interested in Eldar, Dark Eldar and Ravenwing, so that helps!

-Z

 Zadkiel wrote:
I'm not really sure that going that direction is very fair-ish lol going with all the extra stuff plus Celestine seems a bit much. Just trying to find a balance between what you did and not getting run over by pulse shots.

The two forces actually come to about the same points - roughly 450pts. That's with the Crisis Suits having fusion guns and missile pods and 2 drones apiece, which is not unreasonable equipment.

There is absolutely no reason to hold back against a Tau player - especially with a weak dex like Sisters of Battle. If the Tau player is even half-competent, he shouldn't have any trouble making a good account of himself with what he has to work with.

You're right. I guess I had just considered doing a starter vs starter kinda idea. A good jumping point to get back into things. I guess you can't go easy and try to play a balanced force against the Tau..

Thanks!
-Z

Covens Supplement Formations can get you into DE at a low price point. Old metal Wraithlords can be found on eBay for ~$10, and 2-5 of those can get you between 300-700 points in a formation. A couple extra bits on a Wrack is all it takes to make a Haemonculus. And cheap grotesque substitutes can be found all over the place. (Crypt Horrors, old Rat Ogres, Confrontation prepainted minis, old Dreamblade minis, and the list goes on...) Finally, 3rd edition Kabalite Warriors can be found on resale sites for $1 or less fairly often.

Its pretty easy to get started with eldar by just using wraith units. Pretty strong too.

Let's say I wanted to do a wraith themed army for Eldar, what would fit into this small a game?

-Z

 Zadkiel wrote:
Let's say I wanted to do a wraith themed army for Eldar, what would fit into this small a game?

-Z

possibly a wraithseer, 2 squads of wraiths with d-scythes, one in a wave serpent.

Well. looking at the contents of the Get Started box for Tau, I'd point out that it can field at most one unit of marker drones.

Now, he's either going to have to take a Buffmander, to add Ignores Cover to one squad, but then his drones are going to be BS2. Or he'll have to do a Drone caddy commander. Either way, your best bet is to get into combat with the fire warriors, or drone squad.

I don't want to sound like a dumbass, but it seems crazy that you need to do pretty pumped up lists for other armies to have a chance against a starter army of Tau. Makes me think I should just play Tau and be done with it! I guess I didn't realize they were so strong....

-Z

All armies have different power levels at small points. Thats the cost of having such a varied game with so many options.

If you and your friend plan on only buying 1 box each and playing forever that way, then yes it could be brutal for you. But when your addicted like the rest of us and start building bigger points games, you will find ways to counter his army with mostly any army you choose to play.

Like I said, I'm not really trying to go crazy OP, especially since in the beginning we'd be looking at around 450-500pts (depending on upgrades). All I was trying to accomplish is not getting steam rolled while keeping it sort of an easy start. This may not be possible and I may just have to take the losses until we move up in points, just who wants to lose repeatedly? Definitely not trying to fuss, nor am I new to the game (15 years, off the last two). Just trying to keep it fun against an army that has been made into some crazy long ranged juggernaut.

Anyways, I appreciate all the replies and suggestions!

-Z

Dark Eldar is a lot more simple than their Craftworld brethren. For a DE box I'd like to see:
Archon (Will be used every game, by everyone)
10 Kabalites (Again, used all the time)
A Talos Pain Engine (My ideal box would have a transport but the Start Collecting Boxes are avoiding them, so I'm doing the same)

Eldar could go either an infantry route or a bike route. Both will have people complaining about cheese anyway so here goes:
Either:
Farseer
10 Guardians (I'd prefer Dire Avengers, but Guardians are more realistically what GW would do)
Wraithlord (Because it'd be more fun than a War Walker)
Or:
Autarch on Bike (I'd say a Farseer again, but I'm mixing it up)
3 Bikes (Any more would be ridiculous compared to other Start Collecting boxes)
Vyper (Not my favourite, but a staple in bike lists)

I think the first would be a lot more balanced against other Start Collecting boxes, but the second would probably sell more because people love bikes.

I do like those suggestions, I'll have to see if I can piece together any of them haha

Thanks for that!

-Z


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, after some planning and plotting, I made some lists based on aforementioned criteria, coming to about 400pts. What do you guys think?

Dark Eldar: 398pts.
Archon, agoniser, shadow field, splinter pistol
10 Kabalite Warriors, splinter cannon
3 Reaves, blaster
Talos, TL splinter cannon, CCW

Chaos Marines: 401pts
Lord, power sword, plasma pistol, aura of dark glory
Helbrute, multimelta, DCCW
7 Marines, plasma gun, Champion with plasma pistol
5 Warp Talons

Ravenwing: 395pts
Librarian, force axe, mastery level 2
4 Ravenwing Bikers, plasma gun, attack bike with heavy bitter
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike, multimelta
1 Ravenwing Landspeeder, heavy bolter, assault cannon

Eldar Wraith army: 390pts
Spirit seer, Spirit stone of anath'lan
5 Wraith guard, wraith cannons
1 Wraithlord, brightlance, two flamers, ghostglaive

I kinda like the DE and the Ravenwing, but I think Chaos and Eldar aren't that bad either.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

-Z

any thoughts?

-Z

Those forces would probably be a bit of Dark Vengeance type set up: Where it's balanced enough to play and enjoy, but not quite balanced enough to be entirely fair. I'd say the CSM have seriously got a lot more wounds than anyone else (And at T4 3+!) but I think any player could handle it with a few games experience.

But I'd go for it with those lists.

So I ended up going with the Space Wolf "start collecting" set because I dug up some models I had forgotten I bought haha, against the Tau? Total knife to a gunfight...lol

Gotta try a little harder next time, but it was really hard to close the distance, as my friend kept constructing missle turrets which ended up burying my Wolf Lord in said missles. Thunderwolves took a crazy amounts of shots before they eventually succumbed.

Not sure if I want to proceed with the Wolves of Fenris, but it was fun to play after a 2 year hiatus!

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas!

-Z