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Am I making a debatably overpriced unit even more expensive, or am I potentially increasing the melee survivability of the individual marines by a third for a piddly 3pts? What say you?

Too costly. I keep hearing AMs will get some kind of update, hopefully they'll be cheaper base cost.

well, once they get their points decrease, it will be a much better idea then currently.

giving them that terminator invuln save in CC is a god-send against certain units, however I think that, from an effectiveness stand point, if you're going all-out with an assault squad you should choose between 20 melta bombs (to absoutley kill ANY vehicle you end up near) or shields as both would simply be to expensive in standard games.

I can see combat shields working on Command Squads due to their expensive nature, but Assault Marines... I do not see it.

I hope ASMs will get that price drop. I do use them currently, but a squad of 20 is pricy.

I havent looked at 30K much to be honest, I didnt know there were any assault shields used.

As a rule of thumb anything in 30K should be available for CSM in 40K. SM only equipment didnt make it on the journey to the Eye of Terror as it wasnt issued yet.

So combi bolters not storm bolters etc

It depends. The problem is that assault marines are great at taking out 'vulnerable' units - like tactical squads with bolters but no combat blades, or support squads, or....well, pretty much anything that's not a space marine. They have the speed to reach combat quickly, and with no and-they-shall-ignore-most-rules-penalties, losing combat can spell death for even quite expensive units.

What they really, really shouldn't be doing is facing anything that can fight back effectively. Even if you buy a squad combat shields, a legion terminator squad or dreadnought talon will still kill them in the face. The 6++ save is no meaningful protection at range, and a legion assault squad won't stand up to a unit carrying significant numbers of power weapons in melee.

Melta bombs aren't a bad buy, and combat shields aren't bad for a sergeant, but I wouldn't shell out the points to buy them en masse for the rank and file.

Just for the record, I'm playing Blood Angels, so these guys will have +1 to wound in hand to hand, will most of the time be deep striking in turn 1 (where they'll go right behind the tallest piece of LOS blocking terrain, but even if they don't will have a 5+ cover save), and they'll usually be backed up by a legion praetorian with a photonic blade (ie, the best murder machine who isn't a primarch), melta bombs, and maybe a primus medicae with probably a blade of perdition and melta bombs. Give the sergeant a power fist and plasma pistol, have two power swords, and two power axes in the squad, and bam, I should have a squad that can chew through anything.
I realize it'll be a real fire magnet, so getting hit with some crazy blast weapon is my only real fear, but if I can have a twin inferno pistol moritat and a drop pod full of meltagun marines pop in turn 1 as well, then I should have no problem popping any scary tanks my opponents might have.

.....With the Melta squad - be warned that any heavy tanks may well have armoured ceramite - an armoured ceramite land raider will make rude gestures at 10 meltaguns and then run over them.

Are you planning a full-sized assault squad? because finding a 'safe' spot to drop them is going to take some doing - and on turn one you'll be operating without the benefit of Nuncio-Vox guidance.

Note that you can't just pick the Photonic Blade in standard games:

The rules for Relics of the Dark Age of Technology, included in the Campaign Rules section of The Horus Heresy Book Four – Conquest, are intended for use with and acquired as part of narrative campaigns by prior agreement of all involved parties. In casual games, players should seek the agreement of their opponent before including these powerful items of wargear in their armies and they should not be treated as being part of the standard army list.

i.e. it's opponent's permission in pickup games and not really allowed at organised events.


A 20 man assault squad is still lethal, but you're looking at a 700 point 'wrecking ball' of a unit, and - by deep striking - you're going to drop in close to the enemy but not able to charge that turn.

Yeah, shoot, you're making some good points here. Gotta rethink some things...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so, replace the photonic blade with a paragon blade, thanks to blood angels rules I'll still be striking at initiative, wounding on 2+ with AP2 against most models.

I just noticed support squads CAN'T take drop pods for some reason. I guess they figured that would be a bit OP, so nix that, but my twinferno moritat still works.

Point taken about not relying on melta to take out armored vehicles. I'm still new to 30k so I'm not used to armored ceramite being prevalent.

I own a laser destroyer rapier, a sicaran, and a twin kheres mortis contemptor, so I can put out some okay anti vehicle firepower.

I'm honestly not too concerned about about deep striking in a 22 man squad. As a long time blood angel player I'm used to deep striking in lots of guys at once, and it's def doable.

I'd just be aiming for getting them right behind a building or hill or something out of LOS, and letting them jump in next turn, or doing them right in the middle of the field so they don't scatter into anything, and just letting them soak firepower for one turn.
3+ armor save, 5+ cover save, 6+ invulnerable save, feel no pain, and either running to scatter if there are blast or template weapons, or firing on whatever squad they are near to force a pinning test (blood angel rule), and they should hopefully do okay.

I feel it should be pointed out that melta-bombs have armourbane, and are not stopped by armoured ceramite

as for your AV power, beyond it's sponsons the sicaran has 6 S:7 shots with rend, so you will need to roll a 6 to pen anything AV: 13 or better, and the same problem applies to the kheres dreads.

 Brennonjw wrote:
I feel it should be pointed out that melta-bombs have armourbane, and are not stopped by armoured ceramite

as for your AV power, beyond it's sponsons the sicaran has 6 S:7 shots with rend, so you will need to roll a 6 to pen anything AV: 13 or better, and the same problem applies to the kheres dreads.

Yeah, I know I'm used to using my sicaran in 40k where you can give it tank hunter and then it absolutely wrecks, but still, 6 shots should get me one penetrating hit, and then two lascannons could easily get me another. That's not terrible.
Same thing with the dread, should be able to get one penetrating hit per turn. Not the best thing in the world, sort of all I've got, and considering how much of a threat these also are to infantry, I'll take it.

Thanks for point that out with the melta-bombs though! How delightfully counter-intuitive!

Iy you already have models with shields = use them, if not, then don't. Whats a few points per model?

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
Iy you already have models with shields = use them, if not, then don't. Whats a few points per model?

60pts per the squad