Bring back our gear, Israel's army begs ex-soldiers

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Jihadin**

Tel Aviv (AFP) - Israel's army is searching for hundreds of weapons and tens of thousands of munitions -- from its own former soldiers.

It turns out that many soldiers have ended their service by walking away with memorabilia.

The military is now pleading with them to bring back their boots, sleeping bags and cold-resistant suits -- not to mention guns, grenades and ammunition. No questions asked.

A month-long campaign is underway across the country with the motto "clear out your closet -- return equipment to the army," stressing there is no risk of prosecution.

One hundred collection points have been opened at bases and police stations.

Outside an army headquarters in Tel Aviv, three soldiers were positioned on the sidewalk while men and women of various ages arrived with cardboard boxes or plastic bags.

Some avoided getting out of their cars, apparently too ashamed for making off with the items or having neglected returning them for so long.

Nearby, a bucket gradually filled with equipment and uniforms.

Deminers were ready to intervene in case any of the deliveries still posed a danger.

In three weeks, "thousands of people have done their duty," said the commander of the operation, Brigadier General Yoram Azulai.

"And I can assure you that we have not taken one name," he quips.

An army spokesman said so far the collection has yielded 220 firearms, 20,000 parts of uniforms, 700,000 bullets or grenades, 1,000 explosives and 1,300 pyrotechnic devices -- particularly popular at weddings for fireworks.

- Ready-to-wear military -

Some of the items could even be worthy of a museum.

"A kibbutz decided to give up the cache of illegal weapons it held for decades," said Azulai.

"An officer who served during the War of Independence returned a gun dating from 1948, while we also recovered weapons from the Yom Kippur war" in 1973.

Azulai said the danger of an accident or of weapons being stolen were serious concerns.

"In everyday life, it is very common to come across people who use military equipment for leisure," he said.

"But in Israel and in an enhanced security environment, this is a very bad idea."

"(A man) could blow up his house, endangering the lives of his children and other civilians. And of course, this material could fall into the wrong hands, those of criminal or terrorist organisations," Azulai said.

The issue resonates because military life touches nearly all Israelis.

Men are conscripted for 32 months and then spend years in regular reserves duty, while women serve two years.

Many have found post-military uses for their gear.

A one-piece, cold-resistant "Hermonite" suit can be used in winter, the rugged olive green uniforms and boots are perfect for gardening and outdoor work, and comfortable military sleeping bags are popular for camping.

Infantry helmets have been put to use for weekend motorcycle rides.

Those who hold onto of such gear tend to fall into three broad types, said Azulai.

They include the "nostalgic" who wants to hang on to memories; the "cautious" who feels under-equipped, especially in case they are again called up for reserve duty; and those who simply neglect to return the gear.

A previous collection campaign in 2008 led to the retrieval of equipment worth a reported 7.5 million shekels ($2 million, 1.7 million euros), with the army able to re-use goods worth 4.5 million shekels.

But "when you see the defence budget (60 billion shekels), it is a drop in the sea," Azulai said.

Israel "does not rely on what people bring to win the next war."

So freaking funny. I wonder if the US government does the same what type of stuff will come up on the turn in. War Souviners(sp) I believe ended after Grenada with the gear that was coming back.

**Wyrmalla**

Reminds me of schools asking kids to bring back their text books and calculators (one teacher used to go around charity shops in the summer buying them back...).

Hmn, I guess if Israel's ever invaded again all that loose gear could come in handy. I can imagine some old codger having a stash of Uzis or AKs from Yom Kippur under their floorboards.

Though on the same note, given how regulated the IDF is over guns, it'd be a shame to see some of that stuff making its way into the wrong hands. There was a whole palava in the UK a few years back over a Special Forces guy being caught with a souvenir pistol that wound up with him being thrown out of the army IIRC.

**oldravenman3025**

Nobody used to bat an eye when IDF personnel held on to some of their gear, even weapons, because they were considered reservists that could be recalled at any time. I knew a guy from Israel who was a firearms instructor. He kept his Galil when he went from active duty to reservist. He was allowed to keep it after the Galil was phased out in favor of the M4 and Tavor. Partly because he was contracted as an instructor to the government, and partly because Israel considered itself to be on perpetual war footing at the time.

The only reason they're making a fuss about it now is the massive cuts in Israeli defense spending over the last 15 years is finally catching up with them, and they can't afford to keep their personnel equipped with new gear.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyrmalla wrote:
Reminds me of schools asking kids to bring back their text books and calculators (one teacher used to go around charity shops in the summer buying them back...).

Hmn, I guess if Israel's ever invaded again all that loose gear could come in handy. I can imagine some old codger having a stash of Uzis or AKs from Yom Kippur under their floorboards.

Though on the same note, given how regulated the IDF is over guns, it'd be a shame to see some of that stuff making its way into the wrong hands. There was a whole palava in the UK a few years back over a Special Forces guy being caught with a souvenir pistol that wound up with him being thrown out of the army IIRC.

I don't know about now, but at one time it wasn't uncommon to see reservists and active duty IDF, in civilian clothes, walking around with with their rifles while about town.

**jhe90**

At one point Israel was on a near permanent State of alert to invasion, times change and gear squirreling is not such a necessity.

Though probbly plenty of weaponry hidden away just incase...

**Wyrmalla**

oldravenman3025 wrote:

I don't know about now, but at one time it wasn't uncommon to see reservists and active duty IDF, in civilian clothes, walking around with with their rifles while about town.

Personnel who have been issued a weapon are instructed to keep the gun safe. If they're active then they should be armed. If they're not then its on their neck if someone steals the thing or they're called up at a minute's notice and look gormless because they had to travel 15 minutes home to find the thing.

Though I'm not sure about the specifics of all that. You see plenty of Israelis who are armed, though I guess it varies on whether they're armed because of orders, or their reservists who just feel like it. I know you get Swiss guys who go to pick up groceries with their rifle on the seat next to them because they're mandated to...

Hmn, re: regulations, in modern day Israel I'm not sure how guns used by reservists are handled. Policy dictates that soldiers aren't to carry guns loaded (they use a dummy mag on the M4s), or use an orange chamber stop gizmo. Again, I'm not super clued in on that. IIRC the added safety's only used when combat isn't expected, and I'm not sure how well they're enforced. Heh, but there's a few ex-IDF guys here, so maybe they could weigh in on this?

**Jihadin**

Wyrmalla wrote:
oldravenman3025 wrote:

I don't know about now, but at one time it wasn't uncommon to see reservists and active duty IDF, in civilian clothes, walking around with with their rifles while about town.

Personnel who have been issued a weapon are instructed to keep the gun safe. If they're active then they should be armed. If they're not then its on their neck if someone steals the thing or they're called up at a minute's notice and look gormless because they had to travel 15 minutes home to find the thing.

Though I'm not sure about the specifics of all that. You see plenty of Israelis who are armed, though I guess it varies on whether they're armed because of orders, or their reservists who just feel like it. I know you get Swiss guys who go to pick up groceries with their rifle on the seat next to them because they're mandated to...

Hmn, re: regulations, in modern day Israel I'm not sure how guns used by reservists are handled. Policy dictates that soldiers aren't to carry guns loaded (they use a dummy mag on the M4s), or use an orange chamber stop gizmo. Again, I'm not super clued in on that. IIRC the added safety's only used when combat isn't expected, and I'm not sure how well they're enforced. Heh, but there's a few ex-IDF guys here, so maybe they could weigh in on this?

I really hate it when rounds are exposed in clip...................30 round clip....................

Spoiler:

Though situation dictate the carry. Open Magazine....woops...clip well.....no harm no foul and bolt forward. Though Everyone brush out the chamber once a day....and loaded mag/clip...is secured on the stock with a one mag holder.

Majority of time a chamber lock was used (white version to that red version) though ours a bit thicker...being we can remove the lock as we draw back the charging handle....though that was Garrison but on the perimeter AO.
In a constant threat of contact. Well round chamber....weapon on safe...and MUZZLE AWARENESS

Edit

Also it seems that 550 cord is not gutted.

**oldravenman3025**

I've seen those those devices before. You have these IDF personnel using them:

Some elect to simply go with an empty mag well. Probably have one or more accessible if needed, like the girl with the mag in her back pocket (not the best place to keep it):

Although the guy in the winter pic seems to have a chamber plug in his Tavor.

**Jihadin**

I hate Muzzle plugs....so many times they are forgotten to be removed...and all the time we see pieces of black going down range

**oldravenman3025**

Jihadin wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:
oldravenman3025 wrote:

I don't know about now, but at one time it wasn't uncommon to see reservists and active duty IDF, in civilian clothes, walking around with with their rifles while about town.

Personnel who have been issued a weapon are instructed to keep the gun safe. If they're active then they should be armed. If they're not then its on their neck if someone steals the thing or they're called up at a minute's notice and look gormless because they had to travel 15 minutes home to find the thing.

Though I'm not sure about the specifics of all that. You see plenty of Israelis who are armed, though I guess it varies on whether they're armed because of orders, or their reservists who just feel like it. I know you get Swiss guys who go to pick up groceries with their rifle on the seat next to them because they're mandated to...

Hmn, re: regulations, in modern day Israel I'm not sure how guns used by reservists are handled. Policy dictates that soldiers aren't to carry guns loaded (they use a dummy mag on the M4s), or use an orange chamber stop gizmo. Again, I'm not super clued in on that. IIRC the added safety's only used when combat isn't expected, and I'm not sure how well they're enforced. Heh, but there's a few ex-IDF guys here, so maybe they could weigh in on this?

I really hate it when rounds are exposed in clip...................30 round clip....................

Spoiler:

Mag

Though situation dictate the carry. Open Magazine....woops...clip well.....no harm no foul and bolt forward. Though Everyone brush out the chamber once a day....and loaded mag/clip...is secured on the stock with a one mag holder.

Majority of time a chamber lock was used (white version to that red version) though ours a bit thicker...being we can remove the lock as we draw back the charging handle....though that was Garrison but on the perimeter AO.
In a constant threat of contact. Well round chamber....weapon on safe...and MUZZLE AWARENESS

Edit

Also it seems that 550 cord is not gutted.

We didn't use those in our M16A1s back when I was in Basic. But that was back in 1986-87. Being a 19 Kilo, we didn't have rifles issued to us after training. We had our trusty side arms (some were STILL carrying issued M1911A1s, a few others the "newfangled" M9) and we had old M3A1 Grease Guns stored in our mounts. The SOP for the sidearms and M3A1s were full mags, empty chambers when out in the field in Germany. In Saudi, even in Desert Shield, we routinely carried our sidearms with a "hot" chamber, since the Beretta allowed for this without somebody getting the OD green panties in a wad.

**Wyrmalla**

Aye, practically speaking all those gizmos seem excessive. Presumably they're only in use because of all the out of uniform IDF who don't have any webbing to carry loose mags.

I'm not sure how practical having an open magazine is in a country like Israel, doubly so given how closed the mechanisms on the M4 are.

**Howard A Treesong**

When my grandfather left the tank regiment in 1945 he had a pay deduction for not returning his cap badge after six years! How these people take serious amounts of kit and don't get billed amazes me.

**jmurph**

Heh, love the pics at the bar and beach just chillin' with the rifle. No big.

**jhe90**

Ya know no ones going to annoy the woman with a m16.