Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Good morning all,
We wanted to share with you the launch of the Kickstarter for London's first dedicated gaming and all round geek pub. The Orc's head. the Kickstarter is now live and we are looking for funding to help with refurbishment cost's and to also help us with gaming table costs. we are looking to raise £45000 to help with this. The pub will be split into two halves, one a public bar for anyone and everyone to visit for a drink and a bite to eat, the second half will be for gamers and games of all type's. there will be multiple gaming systems catered for along with gaming nights and events hosted on a weekly and monthly bases. on top of all this, we will also have a studio, gaming club and shop open 7 days per week so you can always pop in for a game. we hope you will become a backer with this project, we will also have a stand at Salute TH15 if you are there please pop over and say hello.
all the best
The Orc's Head Team

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1047430283/the-orcs-head

Link fixed.
reds8n

Whereabouts in London will the pub be based? Says in the video you can't say which pub, but an idea of where in the city it is would be handy.

Those rewards look well thought-out. A meal, table-use a number of times per year, playtesting....
I pay per visit at the club I go to, so working that over a year would be an amount, and expecting to go every x weeks a year, the reward for that looks OK.

I'm not in the area often enough to pitch in, wherever in London it might be. I may have a spare fiver to throw along though.

Where in London would it be?

Hi, guy's thanks for the feedback, the aim is to be in North London, I know it's a big area but it is the rough location. there is a possible pub in Welwyn garden city we are interested in as it's perfect for us size wise and budget wise. We have also been looking at a few pubs in Camden and Islington but the process for going for any pub is not a quick one.

Welwyn would be awesome as I'm in Stevenage, I'd be much more likely to go there than trek down to London for a pint and a game

Put in for a Basic membership as im in Luton and won't be able to make it every week. I really hope you guys are successful with this.

I've gotta be honest but I think Welwyn garden City is way too far North and you wouldn't pick up much regular trade from gamers although if as you say the ground floor will be open to everyone you should still keep your pub revenue.

But if you don't get the gamers in you wil lose a lot of revenue from the venue hire upstairs that the previous landlord would have pulled in.

Camden or islington will at least be more accessible but i think you will get hammered by business rates in that area.

The biggest gaming club in London is in Hackney although they already have a weekly group in a large pub there on a weekly basis but pull in approx 100 gamers a week. So East London may be worth considering.

I would avoid South London as Warboar already pretty much does what you are doing and once they get their drinks license you will be in direct competition so wouldn't advise that.

StraightSilver wrote:
I've gotta be honest but I think Welwyn garden City is way too far North and you wouldn't pick up much regular trade from gamers although if as you say the ground floor will be open to everyone you should still keep your pub revenue.

But if you don't get the gamers in you wil lose a lot of revenue from the venue hire upstairs that the previous landlord would have pulled in.

Camden or islington will at least be more accessible but i think you will get hammered by business rates in that area.

The biggest gaming club in London is in Hackney although they already have a weekly group in a large pub there on a weekly basis but pull in approx 100 gamers a week. So East London may be worth considering.

I would avoid South London as Warboar already pretty much does what you are doing and once they get their drinks license you will be in direct competition so wouldn't advise that.

Way out in Bromley not on the tube? May as well be off the map in terms of competition.

Welwyn Garden City? Way too far out of the city! Is that even London?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
I've gotta be honest but I think Welwyn garden City is way too far North and you wouldn't pick up much regular trade from gamers although if as you say the ground floor will be open to everyone you should still keep your pub revenue.

But if you don't get the gamers in you wil lose a lot of revenue from the venue hire upstairs that the previous landlord would have pulled in.

Camden or islington will at least be more accessible but i think you will get hammered by business rates in that area.

The biggest gaming club in London is in Hackney although they already have a weekly group in a large pub there on a weekly basis but pull in approx 100 gamers a week. So East London may be worth considering.

I would avoid South London as Warboar already pretty much does what you are doing and once they get their drinks license you will be in direct competition so wouldn't advise that.

Way out in Bromley not on the tube? May as well be off the map in terms of competition.

Welwyn Garden City? Way too far out of the city! Is that even London?

That's why I specifically said South London - Bromley is very easy to access from anywhere in South London and has very good train links. Nowhere in South London is on the tube as we don't have it South of the river, lol.

But yeah Bromley is possibly considered too far from central or North London.

And no Welwyn Garden City is not in London, it's way too far and would make the venture pointless for many Londoners. It would be easier for me to get to Warhammer World from South London than it would be to get to Welwyn Garden City, or failing that could get to Tabletop / Wayland.

So yeah, for this to be worthwhile it really does have to be in London and to be honest although it will be the first "Gamer's pub" it certainly isn't the first venue in London where you can game, paint, get a beer and food and play board games. We have a lot of those.

I do wish the project well but I think investing £100K into a project is a big risk when they don't even have the venue location sorted out.

However if you build it, we will come......

StraightSilver wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
I've gotta be honest but I think Welwyn garden City is way too far North and you wouldn't pick up much regular trade from gamers although if as you say the ground floor will be open to everyone you should still keep your pub revenue.

But if you don't get the gamers in you wil lose a lot of revenue from the venue hire upstairs that the previous landlord would have pulled in.

Camden or islington will at least be more accessible but i think you will get hammered by business rates in that area.

The biggest gaming club in London is in Hackney although they already have a weekly group in a large pub there on a weekly basis but pull in approx 100 gamers a week. So East London may be worth considering.

I would avoid South London as Warboar already pretty much does what you are doing and once they get their drinks license you will be in direct competition so wouldn't advise that.

Way out in Bromley not on the tube? May as well be off the map in terms of competition.

Welwyn Garden City? Way too far out of the city! Is that even London?

That's why I specifically said South London - Bromley is very easy to access from anywhere in South London and has very good train links. Nowhere in South London is on the tube as we don't have it South of the river, lol.

But yeah Bromley is possibly considered too far from central or North London.

And no Welwyn Garden City is not in London, it's way too far and would make the venture pointless for many Londoners. It would be easier for me to get to Warhammer World from South London than it would be to get to Welwyn Garden City, or failing that could get to Tabletop / Wayland.

So yeah, for this to be worthwhile it really does have to be in London and to be honest although it will be the first "Gamer's pub" it certainly isn't the first venue in London where you can game, paint, get a beer and food and play board games. We have a lot of those.

I do wish the project well but I think investing £100K into a project is a big risk when they don't even have the venue location sorted out.

However if you build it, we will come......

The tube goes to plenty of south London!

Agree though, good idea but the venue location really needed to be locked down as its going to be the #1 question.

The tube prettty much doesn't go anywhere South East, except Northern Line via Elephant and Castle towards Clapham / Brixton.

Fair enough a few places South West do have it but who wants to go there...

Yeah, premises and location really should have been number one priority.

Welwyn Garden City would be perfect - open it tomorrow.

It is a mere footstep from my house (errr I mean the gaming hordes of London).

Seriously, as cool as it would be to have as a project in staggering distance of my house, WGC has no gaming community, it's all based around Stevenage or down to North London. WGC has very little of a night time economy in the town centre - making everything local to the suburbs rather than drawing people to the centre is kind of key to the whole garden city ethos, so there isn't a massive town centre crowd already to draw from.

WGC isn't in London at all, even Potters Bar is a stretch to claim as London, and WGC is a good few train stops further out.

All that said, I'd get the first round in for any Dakka types if it did open in WGC (and you didn't order any fancy bottled beers)

Welwyn? Feck me, I was expecting somewhere accessible.

 Ketara wrote:
Welwyn? Feck me, I was expecting somewhere accessible.

Oi - out of the front door and I'm there.

Nice idea, something I'd been bouncing around in my head to do locally.

While I think this is a fantastic idea and wish you the best of luck, it's difficult to back without knowing where it will be located. I'm in St. Albans and fairly mobile, so Welwyn would be fine as well as some parts of North London that are easy for me to get to. Once you have a definite location I might back this. Slightly misleading to call Welwyn 'North London' though lol.

 Ketara wrote:
Welwyn? Feck me, I was expecting somewhere accessible.

Isn't that about 8 miles north of Potters Bar? Does that count as London?

lol 45k ? your are barking mad.

Its a place to game and paint, but it does Magic.

I see a contradiction. There are two types of gaming clubs, those that have no CCG or restrict it to specific times, and those whose tables are covered with it to the detriment of everything else.

Need a 6x4 for a 1500pt game? - magic players are using it.
Want to run an RPG - magic players are all over it. As they only need to port about a deck or two its a lazy way in and portable.

We just got our first here in Canberra Australia. It's pretty sweet. You can order food as well. There is a door through to the regular FLGS so there will be certain nights where it will be adults only and drinks can be taken across to the big room with all the tables. In the actual pub there are only 3 tables. I played Mtg with some guys deck worth thousands of dollars while kinda tipsy. I was sooo scared of spilling my drink!

First off, it’s a pretty exciting concept and I’d love something like that near me.

It does seem a bit haphazard though. It’s a normal, proper pub. It does food, so it’s a gastro pub too (I’d assume, with a new kitchen and all). It’s also a gaming centre, with a painting studio attached and facilities to design and print your own scenery and mats. Heavy doses of (bespoke) Nerd Culture thrown in too. It feels like the pub bit is lost in all the gaming extras.

The £35k for decorating and art work and extras seems quite excessive, but if it's a complete renovation rather than a lick of paint then that could soon add up. Get on Amazing Spaces, or Grand Designs!

Have you considered initially leasing the venue, rather than outright purchasing the lease? This could free up a bit more cash to get it going and the lease should get cheaper as it runs out.

Please don’t take this negatively, I genuinely wish you the best of luck with this venture. I’d definitely call in next time I’m in London. Or even better, it succeeds and you open one in Manchester

[Uninteresting stuff]

Welywyn = Welwyn

Welwyn =/= London

It'd work out great if half of Tesco Head Office happen to be gamers, though!

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
Welwyn? Feck me, I was expecting somewhere accessible.

Isn't that about 8 miles north of Potters Bar? Does that count as London?

No. It needs to be fairly central, I would say on or near the Circle Line. The Angel is about as far out as I would go. The Tube and Overground maps are key to finding a good location, because almost no-one commutes or drives in central London by car. If you go much outside the Circle Line, the car possibilities get better, but you increasingly put off people from the other sides of the city, and limit your catchment area.

Zone 2 max would be a way of defining the locale extent.

As a South London gamer, I am now totally converted to Warboar - its only 12 mins on the fast train from where I am in near central London, and then a five minute walk.

While the idea sounds interesting for this place, Welywn is emphatically not London. In fact, London is a stupidly big place which can take many hours to get across depending on where you live. Until I know whether this place is going to be Zone 2 or Zone 6 there is no way I'd consider funding it.

I just don't see this happening - the market doesnt exist in the numbers to keep the pub going alone, and there are plenty of board game cafes and gaming clubs already in London. I'm just not seeing the USP of this idea.

Totally O/T but what is the Hackney group mentioned above and do they play any historical games?

For Hackney, I think you mean H.A.T.E.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hackneyaretabletopenthusiasts

It's a really cool group who play all kinds of stuff - ask them and see.

For historicals i would start by contacting CLWC

http://www.clwc.org.uk/

It's been years since I've been, but it was a great group of grognards, and I can't imagine they would have changed much.

I like the idea in principle.. But I dont think crowdfunding is the way to go about it.. atleast not at this stage.

In theory a pub, that is principally a pub, and generates revenue the normal pub-ways... but has a gaming room upstairs to bump up revenue + attendances, and give you the edge over other struggling pubs, is something I could really get behind.

But I cant see a single chance that this would fund for 45k on kickstarter.. so I would heavily advise you cancel the campaign now, and start again.. save time.

Couple of things:

- You must must must have a location before you start a project like this. Preferably one you have already brought - considering you say you have the money. As mentioned above, many people will only back a location-based kickstarter, if its in their location.. and currently thats no-one, as we dont know much about where it is..

- Lower your target. 45k is huge. Massive for an unknown company with no reputation.. its huge for an actual game, let alone for a gaming venue (which are much harder to get funding for) start with less.. 5k, 10k, etc. what ever you think you could do the absolute minimum job required with (even if it means seeking further funding elsewhere).. you can always rise up to 45k with stretch goals, and people are much likely to back a project they think will fund.

Even if I still lived in london, I would never back this, because I dont think it will fund.. but if the goal was 7k, I probably would.. as would others, and then when it passes 7k, and I know its definetly going to happen, maybe I would be more likely to help you push on further, and recomend it to more people, as its already a certainty.

I actually like your reward ideas, and they seem very well thought out - its just the general proposition seems far to far-fetched to me currently.

One final thing I would say, is consider having this in close proximity to a university. if your going for a trendy nerdy-pub then the university crowd would be a great market for you. I went to uni in london, and a place like, close by to the uni, would have been beyond popular, especially considering the current popularity of nerd-culture amoungst 18-30s

So all in all, I love the idea, and do think that a normal pub, with a couple of nerdy twists, and a dedicated gaming room.. would work very well if you could tap into the young nerd-culture bubble, as well as getting a good core group of gaming members.. but I just think you need to re-think your aproach to kickstarter slightly.

All the best, and if I am ever back living in london, I would love to go to something like this!

Conversely from a construction PoV £45k seems like a drop in the bucket.

Looking at the finishes on your ideas boards you seem to have honed in on some rather bespoke fit-outs and ideas.

A few current examples from the London market:

If your anticipating wood finishes the minimum you would need are Wood topped engineered boards (not laminates!) and the lowest prices I've been quoted on a Central London project this year is over £50/m2 and the was on the basis of enough for 175 apartments so you cost will be hire per unit. Ultimate we rejects those for harder wearing products for £90-120/m2 and that's still not solid wood.

A fit-out for catering kitchen assuming the premises doesn't have one will cost approximately £1000/m2 new - the one I'm doing at the moment was £80k for a 90m2 space that would serve 40-60 covers per hour, which wasn't allot. I'm guess a pub will have a kitchen but you'll probably spend quite a few quid titifying it if nothing else for a hygienic cleanse.

Anyway I wish you luck but your budget looks light. If it's actually in the center of town I'd love to come and play but your backer pledges are just not very attractive.