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Hi Dakka,

In a formation-less setting what do you think of this list for a local league (featuring some serious competition)


In summary thats : 72 S6, 3d3+3 D barrage blasts and 10 D cannon shots per turn

Eldrad 195
Spiritseer 70

Windrider Guardians (3) Scatterlasers 81
Windrider Guardians (3) Scatterlasers 81
Windrider Guardians (3) Scatterlasers 81
Windrider Guardians (3) Scatterlasers 81
Windrider Guardians (3) Scatterlasers 81

Wraithguard (5) WraithCannons 160
Wraithguard (5) WraithCannons 160

Wave Serpent Underslung Shuriken Cannon 115
Wave Serpent Underslung Shuriken Cannon 115

Warp Hunter Ghostwalk Matrix, Holofields/Spirit Stones 210
Warp Hunter Ghostwalk Matrix, Holofields/Spirit Stones 210
Warp Hunter Ghostwalk Matrix, Holofields/Spirit Stones 210



Eldrad has d3 units scout as his warlord trait meaning those Wave Serpents with Wraithguard inside have T1 D strikes against hard targets (riptides/ Stormsurges/ Wraithknights etc)

The Warp hunters throw out d3+1 D blasts per turn (-1 on the table but counts as S10 for ID) or a D flamer

Whilst the bikes fill in the gaps with 60 S6 shots a turn

Is that Warp Hunter price correct? No book handy, but 185 base, holo/GWM/stones seems more than 210.

The list as a whole seems solid. Does your meta not have threat of air or are you anticipating Guide/Prescience on Scats to cover you?

You're right, flyers are a concern however the local meta has Tau players so many people keep the flyers at home. That said I'm hoping the Alpha strike will do enough damage to take out the majority of ground units before they come in and the Scat packs should provide enough cover with guide. If the situation gets too bad I can add Crimson Hunters to help in later games though.

The Warp Hunters are 185 base, and for purposes of tactics discussion and not to replace the codex;but to my understanding the holofields and Spirit stones are 15 points each and Ghostwalk matrixes are 10 points resulting in the 210 point total.(the / meaning I could either go for coversaves with ghostwalk and spirit stones or with holofields and ghostwalk - not all three upgrades together)

The concern being I could be using Lynx Heavy tanks at 250 base (3 twin linked full D shots or a Large full D blast or even a AP2 Hellstorm template) so the opportunity cost is killing me!

Fair enough, the amount of skyfire present from Tau in a tournament has turned away most FMC/flying vehicle based strategies in my region as well.

I misunderstood the dash, your points add up then!

I'm not entirely sold on the argument of the Lynx superiority to Warp Hunters. I feel there's a great deal to be said in being able to have less proverbial eggs in your space elf basket. Alpha strike lists are some of the hardest for this codex to overcome, so having multiple vehicles that aren't in a squad seems a better choice to me in diminishing that fear.

The list looks totally mean to play - I love it. The templates from the warp hunters will really nicely handle death star/invisibility spam, too.

Personally, I'm back-and-forth a lot on wraithguard - they're great, but they're also expensive and reliant on transport. A full aspect squad of Warp Spiders (and/or Swooping Hawks) is about the same cost as one of the wraithguard/wave serpent combos, so I think of that as a decent alternative.

I think you would do better dropping the Spiritseer for an Autarch so you can counter-reserve an Alpha Strike list.

Or alternatively drop the Spiritseer plus downgrade one unit of bikers to jetbikers or rangers and pick up a Void Shield Generator to give all your AV12 vehicles an extra 3 AV12 HPs to help against alpha lists.

Eldrad Skyrunner?

 Dreamchild wrote:
Eldrad Skyrunner?

never do your lists on excel folks! especially if you forget to clear everything out!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ibushi wrote:I think you would do better dropping the Spiritseer for an Autarch so you can counter-reserve an Alpha Strike list.

Or alternatively drop the Spiritseer plus downgrade one unit of bikers to jetbikers or rangers and pick up a Void Shield Generator to give all your AV12 vehicles an extra 3 AV12 HPs to help against alpha lists.

Interesting idea with the Autarch for a counter deployment, I'm loathe to put the poor girl on the board with no equipment though, what would you recommend arming her with - Shard of Anaris and Wings for HQ hunting or just throw in a fusion gun in one of the wave serpents or perhaps a launcher on a bike?

Void shields sound like a good plan, but it suggests I'm giving up on the T1 strike with the Wraithguard to hide in the shield, in that case would it be viable to keep the bikers but downgrade Eldrad to a regular farseer and keep everything else back for the counter punch?

Cieged wrote:Fair enough, the amount of skyfire present from Tau in a tournament has turned away most FMC/flying vehicle based strategies in my region as well.

I misunderstood the dash, your points add up then!

I'm not entirely sold on the argument of the Lynx superiority to Warp Hunters. I feel there's a great deal to be said in being able to have less proverbial eggs in your space elf basket. Alpha strike lists are some of the hardest for this codex to overcome, so having multiple vehicles that aren't in a squad seems a better choice to me in diminishing that fear.

It's a good shout, I've found Alpha strikes really do hurt the Eldar significantly, I only mention it because I've had a great deal of success with the Lynxes in their newest iteration (got paired with a IK player at the finals of the last tourney the club had which went well) so maybe I'm a little biased



Automatically Appended Next Post:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
The list looks totally mean to play - I love it. The templates from the warp hunters will really nicely handle death star/invisibility spam, too.

Personally, I'm back-and-forth a lot on wraithguard - they're great, but they're also expensive and reliant on transport. A full aspect squad of Warp Spiders (and/or Swooping Hawks) is about the same cost as one of the wraithguard/wave serpent combos, so I think of that as a decent alternative.

Very true, and the wraithcannons are especially temperamental in comparison to the flamers you're right, I hope you won't mind me saying that IO feel the same way with the Warp Spiders. Don't get me wrong, in a board heavy (most notably with LOS blocking buildings near objectives) they are amazing...unfortunately my club has limited terrain options (which I am trying to sort out I might add!) and so their worth is limited.

Also the club does not allow for formations this season which is another obstacle for list building.

 Torus wrote:

 Dreamchild wrote:
Eldrad Skyrunner?

never do your lists on excel folks! especially if you forget to clear everything out!

Hahahah, my heart skipped a beat right there after I thought that you could run Eldrad on bike all along

I like the list a lot and I'm a big fan of anything concerning "The Greatest Psychic Presence In the Universe". Question is, which unit are you planning to put him in?

 Dreamchild wrote:

 Torus wrote:

 Dreamchild wrote:
Eldrad Skyrunner?

never do your lists on excel folks! especially if you forget to clear everything out!

Hahahah, my heart skipped a beat right there after I thought that you could run Eldrad on bike all along

I like the list a lot and I'm a big fan of anything concerning "The Greatest Psychic Presence In the Universe". Question is, which unit are you planning to put him in?

Recently I've been using him and Baharroth to gate of Infinity wraithblades/guard everywhere for laughs but Santic with Novas, improved invulnerable saves and a good old D vortex has been great fun... perhaps more boringly I'll probably be using divination for prescience, perfect timing, precognition (3+ rerollable invulnerable saves and rerolls with a force, fleshbane, AP3 weapon? Yes please) in a group of Wraithguard, I've found the T6 is good for his health.

 Torus wrote:

 Dreamchild wrote:

 Torus wrote:

 Dreamchild wrote:
Eldrad Skyrunner?

never do your lists on excel folks! especially if you forget to clear everything out!

Hahahah, my heart skipped a beat right there after I thought that you could run Eldrad on bike all along

I like the list a lot and I'm a big fan of anything concerning "The Greatest Psychic Presence In the Universe". Question is, which unit are you planning to put him in?

Recently I've been using him and Baharroth to gate of Infinity wraithblades/guard everywhere for laughs but Santic with Novas, improved invulnerable saves and a good old D vortex has been great fun... perhaps more boringly I'll probably be using divination for prescience, perfect timing, precognition (3+ rerollable invulnerable saves and rerolls with a force, fleshbane, AP3 weapon? Yes please) in a group of Wraithguard, I've found the T6 is good for his health.

As I ve ordered a bunch of minis for the first half of a Eldrad, daddy sparrow, seer council bomb + friends list I couldn't agree more with what you said above, but I'd really prefer to give Eldrad a run outside of a seer council, hence the constant pestering from my side

I suppose that Wguard (or blades- I'm SO hoping that these guys have a purpose outside outside of being pretty in a fluffy Iyanden list) are the best babysitters for El D, but wouldn't being in a serpent kinda defeat half of his purpose (being the psychic "D" he is)?

Remember that the Wave Serpent is scouting, if all goes to plan he'll be running out of it T1 with Wraithcannon Wraithguard blasting out all the D's

For fun, in a three source list I've had a 10 man wraithblade squad being joined with 2 farseers Baharroth and Eldrad from 2 CAD's and an allied detachment for Lelith Hesperax... I rolled all the santic powers AND fortune....

That was 3+ rerollable invul saves on the guard, 2+ rerollable saves on Eldrad (and Lelith in a challenge

Strength 9 guard with a stength 5 Lelith (rerolling in challenges)

Deep striking without scatter with Baharroth, running an extra d3 with his warlord trait.

Not the most competitive thing when you bump into an assassin but great fun regardless

 Torus wrote:
The Warp Hunters are 185 base, and for purposes of tactics discussion and not to replace the codex;but to my understanding the holofields and Spirit stones are 15 points each and Ghostwalk matrixes are 10 points resulting in the 210 point total.(the / meaning I could either go for coversaves with ghostwalk and spirit stones or with holofields and ghostwalk - not all three upgrades together) !

Just a slight correction on the vehicle wargear costs.

Holo fields are 15
Ghostwalk and Spirit Stones are 10.

So Holo/GWM would come to 210, whereas Spirit Stones/GWM would come to 205. So you could have 15 points to play with somewhere depending on which option you choose.

I've been running something very similar to this in a campaign we have been running and it's worked really well so far. It is a narrative escalation with no LOWs, formations or allies at this stage, but we are now up 2000 points. I tend to outflank rather than scout up the board in order to get behind cover and have 1 unit of W.G with scythes.
The problem I find is Eldrad himself. Putting him with 1 unit of W.G can help with cover but really does put a massive target on the unit's head and he doesn't have eternal warrior. His scouting trait is so valuable though. So what to do.....

How about using a building such as a bastion or bunker etc and an escape hatch to deploy 1 W.G unit and or hide/ contain eldrad with some reapers, vaul's support weapons etc, quad gun or comms relay? I'm also thinking defence from the turn 1 drop pod lists.

I do quite fancy a Lynx with the S.Lance not being banned here, and taking the point above, using Eldrad to outflank 1 could be awesome esp against gunline? Maybe with 1 unit of W.G guard with scythes in a W.S and a unit of Hornets. Eldrad rolling on Divination and with a comms relay would negate the need for an Autarch? Add in some W.Hs and bikes and spiders to pad it out?

What do you think guys?

The warp hunters are good but they do roll with -1 on the D chart. This is why is use 2 Lynx instead.

Since you do ForgeWorld consider adding a Skathach Wraithknight. A Void Shield can be good against pod gravs so that is also a consideration.

So for no-formation competitive something like this:

Farseer Skyrunner Singing spear.

5 units of Scatterbikes

2 Units of 2 Hornets with Pulse lasers

2 Lynx with Holo fields and sprits stone.

Wraithknight Skathach with Deathshroud cannons and TL Scatterlasers.

VSG with 3 voidshields

That's a very good point about the D chart. If you couldn't use a VSG would you still use the 2 Lynx?

Thank you for that list it's really good!

I would still use them. My concern is grav, if you face a lot like podding grav etc then the VSG is really good. Without the VSG and facing lot of grav i would consider reserve manipulation with an autharc, probably a completely different list.

Thanks for the help guys!

I've mentioned it before in couple of threads now but is the voidshield generators still viable now? Just a little worried that the faction with the meanest grav induced alphastrike also have the opportunity to steal fortifications with their psychic, do you think VSG's are still the way to go?

I think some Allied Dark Eldar for the Wraithguard would be good. Even if it's just Raiders so that they aren't slow (I think their weapons are 12", so you can either DS or move 6" disembark 6").

VSG are still good. You could take Farseers/Seer Council that let's you re-roll DtW (one of the two, if I'm not mistaken). I wasn't aware that Geokinesis could move Fortifications. Interesting stuff.

Yeah the rerolls to DtW are good but the Farseer has to be targeted for them to be allowed to deny... maybe a Culexus Assassin in the shield to stop that nonsense?

Good shout with the DE but that also means they come in from reserve, and there are some heavy interceptor lists in my meta

X078 wrote:
I would still use them. My concern is grav, if you face a lot like podding grav etc then the VSG is really good. Without the VSG and facing lot of grav i would consider reserve manipulation with an autharc, probably a completely different list.

A good point. If that was the case, what would you use? I've never used a null deployment or reserve manipulation list before

Eldar don't really do "null" deployment in the true meaning but the concept is similar, so what you do is deploy enough units tactically so your survive an alpha (or beta) strike.
This lends itself to an MSU based army so make use of scatterbikes and warpspiders, and I would skip mostly all vehicles when going this route. The units you choose to deploy depends on your opponent, the mission etc.

The Autarch will help with reserve rolls due to his special rule.

A competitive formation based list could look something like this:

Or

CAD no formations: