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So i was initially going to run one more unbound army before i get used to formations and proper structure of an army. it was suggested that as i have over 10k points in dark angels i have no excuse for not fielding a proper army.. So this my attempt to field one tomorrow night in my gaming garage.

Rules
-Nightime
-allowed to use up to 3 elite units to represent up to 3 lesser version (ie black knights can represent rw bikers 1:1)
-a budget of 1840-1860 points. no more, or less.
-Wanting to use the Vindicator linebreaker.
-Wanting to use the Dreadnoughts i just finished painted tonight.


Narrative
We have received sensor reports of a lone Razorback of the space wolves sitting in the open upon the dead world in our charge. No signs of battle, no nothing. (objective Prime being to secure this Razorback).
We have a couple locations that our we need to secure to provide overwatch on the razorback. I can only presume whatever force left the razorback abandoned also has a pair of locations where it too can keep can eye on the razorback. This is a nasty trap after all.

My Units consist of the following list.
1 Formation Ravenwing Strikeforce
(160) HQ Interrogator-Chaplain
------- on Bike with Mace of Redemption
(345) Ravenwing Attack Squadron #6
------- 1 RW Landspeeder Typhoon/MM, 1 RW Atk Bike MM, 1 Vet Sgt Biker w Power Sword, 2 Bikers Plasma Gun, 3 Bikers
(345) Ravenwing Attack Squadron #5
------- 1 RW Landspeeder Typhoon/MM, 1 RW Atk bike MM, 1 Vet Sgt Biker w Power Mace, 2 Bikers Plasma Gun, 3 Bikers


(390) Vindicator Squad #1
------- 3 Vindicator's with Siege Shields
(375) Dreadnought Squad 5-1
------ 3 Dreadnoughts with Plasma Cannons and Missile Launchers
(140) Predator Squad #1
------ 1 Predator with TL Lascannon and a Lascannon on each side.
(095) Darkshroud #1
------ 1 Darkshroud w Assault Cannon




This gives me a Force of about 25 Figures on the field of battle.
Darkshrould will be hovering near the vindi's to stealth them.
Intending to Combat Squad the bikers and possibly the Dreadnoughts.

have a great day

I'm confused, this army is still unbound (the Ravenwing Strike Force can only contain models with the Ravenwing special rule and/or HQ units on bikes)? Also, you can't have RW Attack Squadrons as part of a Strike Force - they are Formations in their own right, and a unit can only belong to one detachment (not counting things like the Lions Blade, which has permission to do this).

If the entire game is going to be using the Nightfighting rule (as opposed to just the first turn which is what it normally is) then the Darkshroud isn't helping the Vindicators (they'd get Stealth anyway from Nightfighting and it doesn't stack with the Stealth from the 'Shroud) but can be used to prevent Overwatch against your units.

Unbound = the whole army must be in specific formations? not just a part of it?

Then i guess im unbound.

The army is only bound if every unit is in a detachment. A formation is just a type of detachment.

An Unbound army only loses it's Command Benefits (i.e. the bonuses of the RW Strike Force) but keeps it's Formation Special Rules (i.e. the bonuses of the Attack Squadron), so it's not a major loss.

what about if I make the strikeforce allied? would it then retain its info?

plus side is I know what I need next to make this work bound.
conclave of the ancients is only formation I could see as only dreadnoughts, ven dread, 3+ dreads, ironclad x1.

found a formation for both vindi and pred. next time.


many thanks for the help

Edit: about that Conclave of the Ancients formation.
Is is possible to use the Ironclad Dreadnought as a Dark Angel army unit or would this one dreadnought need to be allied from another sm faction, as the ironclad is not in the codex:da, as otherwise it is codex compliant. Is it ok for a successor DA chapter to deviate enough from the ultramarine standard to allow a some ironclads in the armory?

Army construction in 7th with Detachments, Formations and Super-Detachments (Lions Blade, Gladius, Decurion etc.) can get super complicated really quickly:

If even a single model does not belong to a Detachment, the entire army becomes Unbound.

Let's have a look at the Conclave of the Ancients (I don't have Warzone: Damnos, so this is pretty much me guessing, to an extent). On the page with it's rules, have a look at the top of the page: On either side is a double-circle with three skulls in it - this is the symbol that shows it is a Formation. In the top middle of the page is the symbol showing what Faction the Formation is usable by, and the different symbols are shown on page 118 of the main rulebook - you'll find the Space Marine symbol is very similar to the Dark Angel one, but unfortunately it doesn't mean we can use them with DA rules (unless the Damnos book says something different, or if it has more than one Faction symbol. Like I said, I'm guessing here). Another stumbling block is that it's an Apocalypse Formation, so check with your opponent first to make sure they're ok with you using it.

If they are ok with you using it, we can still fit it into the army despite being the Space Marine Faction instead of Dark Angels - just treat it as an allied formation, just like you would if we were allying-in some Imperial Guard. Use the rules from the Space Marine codex (meaning you get to pick a Chapter Tactic) for that detachment.

I think formation detachments still get special rules in an unbound army, but the Ravenwing Strike Force detachment would not get rules unless the entire force is Battle Forged.

Of course you could make it Battle Forged bound by adding a Combined Arms Detachment and replacing some tanks or bikers with two tactical squads in Razorbacks and another HQ. That sticks to your mechanized theme while providing useful Objective Secured. This is probably the only good Battle Forged way to field your dreadnaught unless you go for a Demi- Battle Company.

And yeah Apocalypse formations are NOT 7th Edition formations. But since this is a narrative event, maybe your opponent can compromise: you can field the Apocalypse formation to make your army Battle Forged, allowing your Ravenwing Strike Force to use its rules, BUT that Apocalypse formation's rules will not apply (they might be kinda powerful).

 axisofentropy wrote:
I think formation detachments still get special rules in an unbound army...

If by 'formation detachment' you mean a detachment like the Gladius Strike Force or the Necron Decurion, then no you would not receive their benefits in an Unbound army. They are detachments, not formations.

 Ghaz wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
I think formation detachments still get special rules in an unbound army...

If by 'formation detachment' you mean a detachment like the Gladius Strike Force or the Necron Decurion, then no you would not receive their benefits in an Unbound army. They are detachments, not formations.

no, just formations like we're talking about in this thread, which are a kind of detachment.