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I am SO excited to see this, and wanted to call out to all KoW players that a skirmish rule set is now available in Iron Watch #44. These are basic rules, and more advanced rules are on the way. Both the basic and advanced rules are free, so let's talk about some skirmish action!!!

I'm going to try out a game tomorrow, see how Ogres work out in the newest version.

The rules seem pretty clear and easy to use. There are a few editing issues, but nothing that is too crazy. My initial thoughts:

1. Warbands are going to start off small, or full of really weak units. With a 50gp starting size, an Elf warband could be as small as two figures! But, the size limitation of the warband will not last too long.

2. A figure can have a Defense of up to 7, but there are multiple ways to get Crushing Strength or Thunderous Charge. So, don't feel too bad running a knight with a 7 Defense and Thunderous Charge 3.

3. Anything is possible in this game, but it might be expensive. For example, you can hire Allies and Mercenaries, but they will cost you through the nose.

4. It seems like some of the rules are missing. For example, there is a mention of a "Large Limit" for warbands, but I didn't see where this was explained in the rules. Perhaps the Advanced Rules will contain more information.

There's a lot of neat things to explore in here, I'm impressed.

Yeah, the rules are pretty well organized! I do think that the scenario section might work better at the end, because right now they kind of break up the section on actually making your warband.

50 gold limit with ogres means, at the most, two basic ogres with no equipment, or maybe one ogre with a bunch of red goblin buddies. Gotta try them both out to see how it works.

I was slightly disappointed to find that I could not make a dwarven throwing mastiff my warband leader. (Note: mostly not serious)

CaptainLoken wrote:The rules seem pretty clear and easy to use. There are a few editing issues, but nothing that is too crazy. My initial thoughts:

1. Warbands are going to start off small, or full of really weak units. With a 50gp starting size, an Elf warband could be as small as two figures! But, the size limitation of the warband will not last too long.

2. A figure can have a Defense of up to 7, but there are multiple ways to get Crushing Strength or Thunderous Charge. So, don't feel too bad running a knight with a 7 Defense and Thunderous Charge 3.

3. Anything is possible in this game, but it might be expensive. For example, you can hire Allies and Mercenaries, but they will cost you through the nose.

4. It seems like some of the rules are missing. For example, there is a mention of a "Large Limit" for warbands, but I didn't see where this was explained in the rules. Perhaps the Advanced Rules will contain more information.

Oh shoot, the Large limit was a holdover from an older version of Star-Struck City that I thought I'd cleaned out of the current version! What page did you find the reference to that on, so I can make sure to fix that for the next iteration?

toasteroven wrote:There's a lot of neat things to explore in here, I'm impressed.

Yeah, the rules are pretty well organized! I do think that the scenario section might work better at the end, because right now they kind of break up the section on actually making your warband.

50 gold limit with ogres means, at the most, two basic ogres with no equipment, or maybe one ogre with a bunch of red goblin buddies. Gotta try them both out to see how it works.

I was slightly disappointed to find that I could not make a dwarven throwing mastiff my warband leader. (Note: mostly not serious)

I can definitely look at moving the Scenario list around; Were you thinking putting it right before the Warband lists, or after the warband lists?

Also, thanks to the "Awakened" Magic Skill, you can now make a sufficiently-experienced Mastiff your warband leader

My thought was either the warband lists. That way it doesn't break up that section.

One quick thing, not sure if it's a problem. There's a couple of lists (the ogre and brotherhood that i've found) that tell you to select a skill from the "ranged" skills. Is that the same as the shooting skills?

Also, I didn't even notice that awakened skill. That's perfect, and I basically have to play a campaign now so I can have my throwing dog leader.

 toasteroven wrote:
My thought was either the warband lists. That way it doesn't break up that section.

One quick thing, not sure if it's a problem. There's a couple of lists (the ogre and brotherhood that i've found) that tell you to select a skill from the "ranged" skills. Is that the same as the shooting skills?

Also, I didn't even notice that awakened skill. That's perfect, and I basically have to play a campaign now so I can have my throwing dog leader.

Yes, Ranged is the old name for "Shooting" skills.

I know for me, I want to get a Giant Undead Rat/Dog leading my warband...

darkPrince010, could you answer a few questions for us here?

1. Where is the island located? Is it next to the Forsaken Isles, or is it elsewhere?

2. Ronnie mentioned a skirmish game at the last big convention. Is this going to be based on your work, or is it something different?

Thanks!

 CaptainLoken wrote:
darkPrince010, could you answer a few questions for us here?

1. Where is the island located? Is it next to the Forsaken Isles, or is it elsewhere?

2. Ronnie mentioned a skirmish game at the last big convention. Is this going to be based on your work, or is it something different?

Thanks!

1. ( Mantica map) I didn't specify it, so as to not tread on any established canon/fluff, but my thought would be that it would be relatively close to the Forsaken Islands; Not close enough that the Brotherhood would have a stranglehold over it, but still somewhere on the Infant Sea and readily accessible to basically any nation with some boats bordering said sea.

2. I had no idea Ronnie had mentioned a fantasy skirmish game! (Assuming here that you're talking about this interview?) I don't know what they would be basing that off of, but I would certainly be flattered if they take some elements from Star-Struck City for their skirmish game!

Of course, going off on a little positive here, I think they have a lot of area they could expand towards with this incoming system, away from Mordheim. I feel like while SSC is unique and a standalone game, it still pays homage to Mordheim in several ways: The ruined city gameplay, granular weapon choices, resource acquisition and warband expansion, and the game system derived directly from source wargame to name a few.

In contrast, Deadzone is a unique beast from Warpath and is (imo) only tangentially comparable to Necromunda, as it has a unique game system (Warpath is going to be similar, but it's a chicken-and-egg scenario instead of Deadzone being derived from the Warpath system), a unique setting/fluff (Deadzones vs underhive gangs), and has certain areas that are more codified than SSC is (weapon choices, resource acquisition and growing your strike force).

My hope would be that Kingzone/Deadwar (or whatever the final fantasy skirmish system is called) follows Mantic's successes in the Deadzone system, and (most exciting for me) that incorporates some new and awesome fantasy Battlezones for us to look forward to!

Thank you for responding.

I'm not trying to kiss up, but my group has become very excited to play SSC. Buying a warband is much cheaper than buying a whole army, and can lead to some very unique models and characters. One member of our group has already written a story about his warband, and created an entire story for our games to interact with. I told him to submit it to Iron Watch, because it is very good. Each battle will be written up as a detailed report back to the Basilean authorities, so that the story can continue. I will be doing art for the game, so that we have a visual element as well.

This is what I LOVE about Mantic. Creators respond to the fans. Creativity is encouraged. The only limits that we have are our imaginations. Keep up the good work!

 CaptainLoken wrote:
Thank you for responding.

I'm not trying to kiss up, but my group has become very excited to play SSC. Buying a warband is much cheaper than buying a whole army, and can lead to some very unique models and characters. One member of our group has already written a story about his warband, and created an entire story for our games to interact with. I told him to submit it to Iron Watch, because it is very good. Each battle will be written up as a detailed report back to the Basilean authorities, so that the story can continue. I will be doing art for the game, so that we have a visual element as well.

This is what I LOVE about Mantic. Creators respond to the fans. Creativity is encouraged. The only limits that we have are our imaginations. Keep up the good work!

Awesome! I'm glad your group is enjoying the rules, and I can't wait to see the stories for your warband adventures!

Well, we played our first game, and had a blast. We went with 100gp, instead of the 50gp suggested in the rules, because we wanted to have a bigger game. It was Basilean Sisters versus Pirates. The filthy pirates were put down...hard. It was a lot of fun, and didn't seem to be out of balance. We did the first mission, where the Basilean sisters made landfall. Man, those Panther Lancers can be brutal.

All in all, it was a good game, and only took us 45 minutes. That includes looking up rules and such. After this initial run through, we have already scheduled our next game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We have a lot of painting and terrain building still left to do, otherwise we would have filmed a battle report. I am almost 100% sure that we will film our next game, so that everyone can enjoy. We might even "stage" our first game, so that we can film it, and have a series.

We've played a few games of this now, and with a few balancing passes, I think this could, and in fact should be a published Mantic product.

Yes it is.... heavily.... inspired by Mordheim, but love went into it, and it plays cleanly.

I'd make a few design changes, but all in all, I am impressed. I'm totally passing a copy on to Ronnie.

CaptainLoken wrote:Well, we played our first game, and had a blast. We went with 100gp, instead of the 50gp suggested in the rules, because we wanted to have a bigger game. It was Basilean Sisters versus Pirates. The filthy pirates were put down...hard. It was a lot of fun, and didn't seem to be out of balance. We did the first mission, where the Basilean sisters made landfall. Man, those Panther Lancers can be brutal.

All in all, it was a good game, and only took us 45 minutes. That includes looking up rules and such. After this initial run through, we have already scheduled our next game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We have a lot of painting and terrain building still left to do, otherwise we would have filmed a battle report. I am almost 100% sure that we will film our next game, so that everyone can enjoy. We might even "stage" our first game, so that we can film it, and have a series.

Sweet! Glad to hear it went well, and I can't wait to see the filmed batrep!

As for the lancers, glad to hear they feel appropriately deadly. I've been trying to make sure the costs and advantages/disadvantages for cavalry felt appropriate; Did the panther mount feel okay or undercosted/overcosted when you guys played?

ETA: Also, glad to hear someone else is running some scruffy pirates as their warband! (That has been my favorite warband to run from Mordheim, and I can neither confirm nor deny that an Ironwatch issue in the future may have a separate Pirates warband list to take advantage of...)

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:We've played a few games of this now, and with a few balancing passes, I think this could, and in fact should be a published Mantic product.

Yes it is.... heavily.... inspired by Mordheim, but love went into it, and it plays cleanly.

I'd make a few design changes, but all in all, I am impressed. I'm totally passing a copy on to Ronnie.

Thank you for the praise! We're getting super-excited for the final with-art polished release, and I'm chunking away at finsihing off the terrain, although an upcoming very busy week and a half will unfortunately delay the release till around the end of the month.

I want to make sure the game is as polished and spit-shined as I can get it, and so I would love to please hear your balance and design ideas, and what areas you think would need improvement.

Thanks again!

At first, the Panther Lancers seemed mighty. Their Toughness was crazy good. But, we forgot about the 6's rule. That seemed to balance things out. Also, even at 100gp, they were few in number. 5 Panther Lancers versus 9 Pirates with gear. The 2' X 2' table made combat almost instant. But on a 4' X 4' table, I could position the ranged units better, so it would be balanced.

 CaptainLoken wrote:
At first, the Panther Lancers seemed mighty. Their Toughness was crazy good. But, we forgot about the 6's rule. That seemed to balance things out. Also, even at 100gp, they were few in number. 5 Panther Lancers versus 9 Pirates with gear. The 2' X 2' table made combat almost instant. But on a 4' X 4' table, I could position the ranged units better, so it would be balanced.

Cool; The rules will be changing slightly (if I didn't already make this alteration) to recommend at least a 3'x3' table rather than 4'x4', but either is fine as long as player's deployment areas are separated by at least 24". Shorter than that, and yeah your ranged units will be in hot water fast from quick cavalry

(Also, don't forget Cavalry cannot Climb, so if you can get on top of a building, the panthers won't be able to reach you!)

Other than using larger points warbands, has anyone thought of any good ways to take the edge off the extreme price of Ogres? I would like to do a Sigmarite-as-Ogre warband, but I want more than 1-2 models in it!

We played 2 more games, and had a blast! The best part, was that the random mission generation actually made for a terrific story.

So, after the Sisterhood landed on the island, and had an initial clash on the docks, they encountered some pirates looking for treasure deeper within the city. After the pirates ran, they fled back to a watchtower that they had fortified. The Sisterhood was able to start a fire in the tower, and barely survived the explosion that followed. The pirates are now vowing to destroy the troublesome cat riders!

(First mission was Landfall. The Sisterhood won, but nothing too extreme on either side as far as warband changes. Second mission was Loot Cache, and the Sisterhood was able to out maneuver the pirates due to their speed. Some beat up pirates were left. Third mission was Stronghold. The leader of the Sisterhood went down to a four pirate charge, but she survived the battle. The pirate "captain" was brought down, and came back with Vengeance versus the Sisterhood from the Injury Chart. If there had been 1 more turn, the Sisterhood would have started falling all over the place.)

AegisGrimm wrote:Other than using larger points warbands, has anyone thought of any good ways to take the edge off the extreme price of Ogres? I would like to do a Sigmarite-as-Ogre warband, but I want more than 1-2 models in it!

Unfortunately, I think that even taking another look at the prices, they probably wouldn't end up fluctuating much from ~20-25 gp each. I could introduce some manner of penalty, which would drop the cost, but then again I'm not sure if playing with what might feel like an unfair penalty would be enjoyable? I have enjoyed playing that myself, but I know that playstyle might not be for everyone, and a rule like that wouldn't be a familiar thing for someone used to using the current Ogre lists for KoW.

CaptainLoken wrote:We played 2 more games, and had a blast! The best part, was that the random mission generation actually made for a terrific story.

So, after the Sisterhood landed on the island, and had an initial clash on the docks, they encountered some pirates looking for treasure deeper within the city. After the pirates ran, they fled back to a watchtower that they had fortified. The Sisterhood was able to start a fire in the tower, and barely survived the explosion that followed. The pirates are now vowing to destroy the troublesome cat riders!

(First mission was Landfall. The Sisterhood won, but nothing too extreme on either side as far as warband changes. Second mission was Loot Cache, and the Sisterhood was able to out maneuver the pirates due to their speed. Some beat up pirates were left. Third mission was Stronghold. The leader of the Sisterhood went down to a four pirate charge, but she survived the battle. The pirate "captain" was brought down, and came back with Vengeance versus the Sisterhood from the Injury Chart. If there had been 1 more turn, the Sisterhood would have started falling all over the place.)

That sounds awesome! I'm glad the Vengeance injury result has seen some good use, as tbh it's probably my secret favorite injury result to recieve because of the delicious story elements it can inject. I can't wait to hear what happens next!

What is your take on the Deeplings darkprince010? I was thinking of getting a bunch of zombies and ghouls, but painting them up like they all drowned. Is that close to your idea of what they are, or are they more like salamanders or naiads?

I was thinking that the same curse/magic that sank the island also had an effect on the people that lived there...that's pretty tragic.

Drowned corpses would be awesome! In my mind, they'd basically be crustacean-color-scheme Hormagaunts, but I specifically left it undefined so people could use whatever beasties they preferred. Plus, the idea that the Deeplings are actually the original inhabitants (or their depraved/insane/cursed descendants) is a perfect dovetail for the fluff!

(Also, SSC Deluxe Edition incoming within the next two hours or so, as long as the print file looks good! EDIT: Files are uploading, but thanks to molasses internet upload speed, will not be until tomorrow morning after everything uploads to scribd/google docs/dropbox)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Star-Struck City Deluxe Edition is out!

https://ironwatch.wordpress.com/2016/08/03/the-star-struck-city-deluxe-edition/

I have a question about equipment and weapons. I know that you can only use a shield with specific weapons, but can you also use a bow? I ask this, because I love Sea Guard, but I want to make sure that I can field them. They use the bow, and only get their defense. Then, they switch over to their spear and shield, and get the benefit of the shield. Is this correct, or was the limitation of not using shields with specific ranged weapons a balancing mechanism?

 CaptainLoken wrote:
I have a question about equipment and weapons. I know that you can only use a shield with specific weapons, but can you also use a bow? I ask this, because I love Sea Guard, but I want to make sure that I can field them. They use the bow, and only get their defense. Then, they switch over to their spear and shield, and get the benefit of the shield. Is this correct, or was the limitation of not using shields with specific ranged weapons a balancing mechanism?

Hmm, I realize I didn't clarify this section very well; I want to avoid someone freely claiming the shield bonus and also using a 2-hand range weapon, but restricting a unit to only a bow and for the entire fight might seem counter-intuitive.

I'd say if you have the shield and 1-hand melee weapon, as well as a 2-handed ranged weapon like a bow, you can only claim the +1 Def when attacked in Melee (As the rest of the time, your hands are presumably busy with the bow!)

Thanks for the question, and keep them coming!

Actually, the rules make sense. You can take 1 Melee Equipment, 1 Ranged Equipment, 1 Mount Equipment, and 2 Miscellaneous Equipment in a battle. And, the Melee weapons clearly state that you can only use certain weapons with shields or tower shields. So, you cannot use any other Melee weapons with shields, and the same goes for bows.

I just wanted to make sure that you could take a spear, shield, and a bow. You can, so it's all good. When you use the bow, you do not get the benefits of the shield. When you use the spear, you do. No problem at all!

Just downloaded the low res version. Seems like there are some text display issues in the pdf.

 bbb wrote:
Just downloaded the low res version. Seems like there are some text display issues in the pdf.

Oh crap; I hadn't realized the low-res versions didn't embed the font.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention; I'll try and get a fix up ASAP.

Regarding Fury, it still says...

"Fury

While wavered, this unit may declare a Counter-Charge."

Even though there is no wavering in this game

Oh shoot. I am so sorry that slipped into the final product, and I'll fix it when I clean up the low resolution issues (As well as add an errata link on our blog).

In the meantime, please use the following rule instead:

Fury: While Stunned, enemies attacking this model in Melee get no bonus to hit, rather than the normal +1 to hit.

Sorry...one more thing is missing from the deluxe rules...there are no stats for Deeplings...

 CaptainLoken wrote:
Sorry...one more thing is missing from the deluxe rules...there are no stats for Deeplings...

Sleep deprivation rears its ugly head again...

The stats for a Deepling are as follows:

Deeplin - Infantry

Unit Size..Sp..Me..Ra..De..Att..To...Gp

Unit (1).....6....3+....-.....4+....1..5/6..N/A

Special: Crushing Strength (1)

I've also updated the Errata to match as well.

Again, my deepest apologies for missing these issues. I'll try to have an updated document up within the next few days.