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So as I've come down to it, I'm interested in starting a Chaos army.

However I know absolutely nothing about selecting a proper army, I'm hoping you guys can help me find the army that's right for me.

Thank you.

Also..only Chaos Space Marines.

What do you mean under "only Chaos space marines"?

1) You only want to use the CSM book, and not Forgeworld Renegades, Daemonkin or Daemons
2) You want an army mostly of guys in power and terminator armor, and not cultists heldrakes daemon dogs and spawn

What do you mean with "proper army"? Do you have a competitive list in mind or is it about the fluff?

You should probably think about if you like a specific god or playstyle or Legion/ warband or if you find specific units appealing. If you just want to know which Chaos units are especially strong there are numerous threads about that

Check out the Infernal Tetrad? From what I understand it is a Chaos Demon army consisting mostly of 4 Daemon Princes, one from each god. However you decide to go, it'll give you a core and a good starting point for whatever force you build in the future. **edit** CSM only? erm, still start with the tetrad.

Also, I'm a moderate fan of the Khorne Daemonkin Bloodthirster bomb. Chaos Lord on bike with Kor'Lath. have hime in a squad of ablative wounds turn 1, boost across the board with flat out turbo boost, then die. If it deals any damage it is a bonus. It's real purpose is to drop a Bloodthirster on your opponent's deployment line turn 1.

In the past I was buying miniatures but ended up losing interest in them, after my wallet took a beating I wanted to settle down with CSM, I never really found Daemons to be interesting so I'm more head over heels for power armor.

I just wanted to figure out which Legion/Warband is right for me.

rule-wise, legion rules are gone. All CSM Legions plays the exact same (unless you use supplements, then it's a matter of if you want Veterans of the Long War or Fear)

Are you asking whcih Legion to paint models that you already bought? If you don't like Daemons I propose Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors or Night Lords.

So just a amateur question, is there any way to play with a mixture of different units? Like Plague marines next to Noise Marines?

Yes, you can play with both. However you'd either need a Lord of Slaanesh or Lord of Nurgle in order to unlock said Noise Marines or Plague Marines as troop choices. Otherwise they are taken as Elites, and you'll have to take something else as Troops choices, either Regular CSM with what ever mark you choose, or Cultsits.

However honestly, dont bother starting CSM just yet as an army. Right now they're in the worst spot in terms of Rules and spread out nonsense. Most of our best units come from Forgeworld and the units from the regular Codecies fall behind in every which way compared to similar units of other Codex' All in all, I can't say they would be enjoyable to play, but collection wise they're gorgeous. Some of the most intricate models out there for sure.

I honestly enjoy the look of Death Guards, not so much on the side that they're bloated, I like the bloody look however.

I really like Heresy style World Eaters.

If you like Death Guard, that's good for you, since Nurgle has the best mark right now
If you want Power armour let's point you at some things:
- Plague Marines are very good, they last until forever
- Bikers with MoN are very good, too. Fast and with T6 also very survivable, your MoN Lord likes them as a transport.
- Havocs with autoguns are cheap and do their job
- Raptors with MoN are kind of okay, Bikers are better, but if you want variety, get some of them. They have quite new models as well.

- there's actually no reason to take normal CSM, PMs are better in every way. Recently we got some formations which need CSM, but hardly any of them makes them as good as plague marines. If you don't like the look of PMs you could still get some CSM and paint them Death Guard style.
- Warp Talons and Possessed are considered trash... at least they cost very many points for what they bring, the Crimson slaughter supplement improved possessed at least.

What models do you like the most in terms of troops
Elites heavy support etc?

If you want to keep interest its best to choose the models you like best.

If you like the rules but not the models, you can kitbash and convert alot as chaos.

In the 40k setting most warbands are hodgepodges of mercenary pirates and there is little, if any, structure or formality to the legions.

As such, if you are interested in Legions, have you considered 30k?

As a fellow (well, been many many years) Traitor, I sadly will say that CSM look to be in an absolute terrible place right now. I've held off my plans of an army because of that reason. I kinda like Daemonkin, I even liked the backstory of the Crimson Slaughter, I even like Plague Marines. But the army as a whole is basically worthless unless you use IA13 or cheese out with demons and bikers and the like.

Playing a Legion-esque CSM force with mostly Marines is a bad thing right now; you might as well, curse His name, play a SM army and "fluff" them as Chaos to at least get some good benefits, because right now there are little or no benefits.to going CSM beyond how cool they look.

I am in the same boat. I love Chaos. I love the Legions. I don't want to play 30k, I want to play the corrupted remnants of the once-mighty Traitor Legions, rotted from within and shrouded in darkness, using the fires of Hell itself to forge weapons to strike anew at the hated Imperium. But sadly it's not really possible right now :(

People tend to exaggerate on the whole aspect of the legions falling apart. Most Legions did fall apart and no longer operate as a cohesive army. But the legions were a lot bigger than current chapters, so even if the legion as a whole splintered, you could easily still have warbands the size of an loyalist chapter and those would still operate in a organized manner, although perhaps not quite like the legion it belonged to.
Not to mention that entire loyalist chapters have since gone rogue and those will very much still stick together.

In other words it's entirely acceptable to run with a cohesive force rather than a melting pot of marks and daemons/marines.


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WayneTheGame wrote:
As a fellow (well, been many many years) Traitor, I sadly will say that CSM look to be in an absolute terrible place right now. I've held off my plans of an army because of that reason. I kinda like Daemonkin, I even liked the backstory of the Crimson Slaughter, I even like Plague Marines. But the army as a whole is basically worthless unless you use IA13 or cheese out with demons and bikers and the like.

Playing a Legion-esque CSM force with mostly Marines is a bad thing right now; you might as well, curse His name, play a SM army and "fluff" them as Chaos to at least get some good benefits, because right now there are little or no benefits.to going CSM beyond how cool they look.

I am in the same boat. I love Chaos. I love the Legions. I don't want to play 30k, I want to play the corrupted remnants of the once-mighty Traitor Legions, rotted from within and shrouded in darkness, using the fires of Hell itself to forge weapons to strike anew at the hated Imperium. But sadly it's not really possible right now :(

It still is, but it comes with a lot of ifs and buts. Playing smaller games for one, having a like-minded opponent is helpful too. Basically you can only play them if playing with friends. Playing for objectives helps too.
But playing the game is only half the fun. I've played other people's armies or decks (if you play magic the gathering) but it's not the same. So look into the different legions and perhaps renegade marine chapters like the crimson slaughter to see if anything tickles your fancy.

If World eaters intrigues you, khorne daemonkin aren't exactly a fluff match, but... they work. They're the closest thing to a working world eaters army you can have atm. And they're stronger than regular csm.

Roknar wrote:
People tend to exaggerate on the whole aspect of the legions falling apart. Most Legions did fall apart and no longer operate as a cohesive army. But the legions were a lot bigger than current chapters, so even if the legion as a whole splintered, you could easily still have warbands the size of an loyalist chapter and those would still operate in a organized manner, although perhaps not quite like the legion it belonged to.
Not to mention that entire loyalist chapters have since gone rogue and those will very much still stick together.

In other words it's entirely acceptable to run with a cohesive force rather than a melting pot of marks and daemons/marines.

Exactly. It bugs me to no end people who say "Oh well there are no more Legions". Yes, there are. The Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Death Guard (who are marked anyways) and Alpha Legion are all very much still like how they were before. I can't recall if the Night Lords are, but IIRC there are some roving warbands and some that operate closer to a Legion. The Black Legion, of course, are a hodgepodge but operate like a Legion. It's really only the Emperor's Children and World Eaters who are roving gangs, and as has been mentioned many times in the books not all Berserkers are World Eaters, and not all Noise Marines are Emperor's Children.

I maintain, now and forever, that "Chaos" in 40k needs to be several different armies:

1) Traitor Legions - basically the old 3.5 Codex, where your Word Bearers were as distinct from the Iron Warriors as the Salamanders are from the Dark Angels in a Space Marine army. If anything, I feel they should be closer to Grey Knights; smaller but more powerful to represent the fact these are 10,000 year old veterans who fought alongside the Primarchs and heroes that are remembered only in legends, and wiped out entire species from existence so that they too are remembered only in history. Maybe give them some limited access to the old 30k weaponry (retcon that stuff about it falling apart) to make them distinct in 40k, but closer to 30k. Not as extreme like entire squads armed with special weapons, but something to make them feel different and "archaic" compared to modern Marines, plus Daemon Engines. that was one of the original design intents back in 2nd edition, was to make CSM feel like baroque relics of days gone by, with a sinister twist. Let them have like Volkite weaponry, or older pattern weapons that the STCs have been lost to the Imperium. Access to old legion tanks (suitably corrupted of course). Things like that. Seeing a Traitor Legion army should feel like you've stepped into a time warp back to 30k, with the evil sensation of daemons and corruption.

2) Renegades - Your Red Corsairs/Crimson Slaughter/etc. these are newer Marines who have fallen. I'm not really sure how to handle these ones, maybe sort of a mix between Space Marines and current Chaos. There's no reason why they wouldn't have Razorbacks or Land Speeders or things that Chaos no longer has access to. This would also allow for flexibility on "grey" Marines that are on the cusp of falling traitor but haven't yet.

3) The Lost and the Damned - Your cultists/Traitor Guard, basically as they are but with allied CSM/Daemons and some access to daemon engines. But essentially your horde of mooks thrown into the meat grinder. Like in the olden days, could also throw in your Beastmen guys in here too (i.e. Chaos mutants).

4) Pure Daemons- As they are now, mostly/all daemons from the Warp.

Of course that will never happen.


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Roknar wrote:
It still is, but it comes with a lot of ifs and buts. Playing smaller games for one, having a like-minded opponent is helpful too. Basically you can only play them if playing with friends. Playing for objectives helps too.
But playing the game is only half the fun. I've played other people's armies or decks (if you play magic the gathering) but it's not the same. So look into the different legions and perhaps renegade marine chapters like the crimson slaughter to see if anything tickles your fancy.

If World eaters intrigues you, khorne daemonkin aren't exactly a fluff match, but... they work. They're the closest thing to a working world eaters army you can have atm. And they're stronger than regular csm.

Actually my "options" are either Khorne Daemonkin (not World Eaters, not quite Daemonkin either but they fit the best, basically a custom warband), Crimson Slaughter as themselves (what can I say, I read the novella and I like them) or Crimson Slaughter rules fluffed as Word Bearers (which seems appropriate as well, with Gal Vorbak/Possessed and such). Assuming I chose Chaos, which is still up in the air due to the general feeling of "fighting against the tide" that the army gives off.

Well, i have bought csm, crimson slaughter, black legion, and daemonkin books, because i started csm and i like to read and think about tactics and army compositions.

You could just start with wichever one you like and expand in the direction you want later.

You probably need csm or daemonkin book to start, so one of those first.

You are going to need to paint and read up on it first so buy some chaos space marines first.

Csm, spawn, cultists, possessed, chaos lord, tanks and daemonengines, are in both books.

There are also more units in both books than i mentioned.

Get Plague Marines, our best troop choice.
Get bikes, give them Mark of Nurgle, very good choice.
If power armour is your thing havocs aren't terrible, and remember they can be equipped with special weapons instead of heavy weapons changing their battlefield role.
Raptors aren't too bad, as mentioned above.
Obliterators are our second best unit (imo) but they look more like Daemons than marines.
Basic Chaos space Marines aren't worth taking at the mo, die too easily or run away.

Csm get fearless in formations and if they are with a fearless charachter.
Im thinking about csm and possessed being a requirement in so many formations, you might as well buy some.



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One of the formations give you zealot and feel no pain if the dark apostle in the formation screams a litany instead of shooting, trading 1 or two str 4 ap4 shots for so much more.
Add mark of nurgle and they are t5 fnp reroll to hit at first round of combat and will not run away.

I imagine a blob of these with a sorcerer giving buffs too. Perhaps even fabious bile to give one extra strength.