Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello!,

I was poking around at horus heresy pictures for inspiration for an early great crusade theme, and I came across this picture:

[/img]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/46/Emperor_Great_Crusade.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120707231118[img]

First off, all I know about the image is that it seems to be by Kevin Chin and titled as The Emperor of Mankind, and appears to be gamesworkshop supported by virtue of being in the in the warhammer art website:
https://warhammerart.com/shop/imperial/the-emperor-of-mankind/

Now to my question/opinions. 3 of the legions are obvious; we can see the Luna Wolves to the left/in front of the Emperor, with an Emperor's Children marine clearly in the foreground and to the right/behind the emperor. On the right at the back we see the Ultima of what must be the Ultramarine legion (I would bet a good chunk of teeth on that flag behind the EC's bolter magazine ). If you saw the Ultima then you probably see the additional banner that is inbetween the 2 legions, behind the front aiming post of the EC's bolter...

This banner is interesting because it has an emblem and color scheme not known to any of the legions (A single headed Dragon (? maybe a snake, or a wrym, hard for me to say) that is red/brown and has a yellowish background. What is even more interesting is the 2 that is at the bottom of the flag. My first reaction was maybe it was some Alpha legion banner (2 standing for 20 somehow and the reptilian theme), but if you look at the legion next to the Luna Wolves we see a multi-headed hydra or snake, which seems like the only fit is the Alpha legion. The legion besides the multi-headed banner (again presumably Alpha legion- while secretive I can see them being "social" in this case since it is the Emperor) and further down line another banner that I can not tell. My guess was Iron Hands merely because the black/white banner seems to loosely match but I can not tell for certain.

My next thought was maybe a Salamander's banner before the finding of Vulcan (The Salamanders used a different color scheme at the battle of the tempest galleries according to the wiki so a different banner could make sense and kind of fits the sulfur yellow/sable color mentioned), but for me the "2" sort of kills this possibility as all the banners present seem to be legion banners and not personal/company banners as evident by the Ultramarines and the Luna Wolves, so as far as I know a 2 has never been significant for the Salamanders, especially when the legion number is XVIII for the Salamanders.

My next thought is that maybe the banner did not belong to an astartes legion at all? This though also seems doubtful in my mind because the three legions in the front are lined up without any interuption, so I do not see a reason why the sons of Guilliman and Fulgrim would be seperated from each other, especially since no animosity should exist between the two at the time.

Or maybe it is the Custodes? They would have to be nearby the Emperor, and there does seem to be an Aquila at the top of the banner. However I am not familiar with any custodes banner so I am not sure how reasonable that would be, and they are further away from the Emperor than I would expect them to be, which is right where the Emperor’s Children marine would be (that is opinion though). Furthermore who is to say that the Emperor did not give permission to use his Aquila (assuming it is an Aquila and not just a similar but different design because zooming in it looks like it might not be an aquila, and the ultramarines have a similar thing on their banner), after all he allowed the EC to wear his insignia and we all know how that turned out…

So that to me implies that the banner seen may belong to one of the legions, and I really want to think that this may be a little hint at one of the legions that eventually get expunged from all memory, but I am curious about second thoughts because I have not seen anyone mention this before. Can this work be considered source material/have weight in basing such a legion from the design? What do you all think?

Thanks for reading!

Fixed. the /img is at the end not the front.

edit also the image is TINY its like a picture for ants.

Thanks for the fix! Hopefully people will be able to see what I am talking about now haha.

I can't even see what's on the frontmost banner, much less the other two. You wouldn't happen to know of any larger versions of that pic, would you?

Follow the link and hold the cursor over the picture; it zooms in to give a clearer view.

Hopefully this works, I zoomed in and snipped the corresponding segments, first picture is the banner in question with the ultima in the back, it is grainy but much clearer when I zoomed in with my phone earlier. Second is the Luna Wolves banner, and the third is the probable Alpha Legion/Ironhands (in back but uncertain for both of these).

The "2" if it is a 2 would typically stand for the company (grand company or whatever they wish to be called), not the legion. As such it's quite possibly an image for the fire drakes of the Salamanders.

Every banner is different to a degree and it stands to reason if a proxy of a legion is present, such as at Ullanor, they would present the highest ranking colors they have with them. The legion standard (as seen for the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines, and possibly the Alpha Legion in the image) accompanies the Primarch or Legion Master.

That is true, and it may indeed be a Salamanders banner, as the only caption from the wiki is the Emperor leading his men at the outset of the Great Crusade, and the official warhammer art website merely states:

The Emperor leading his Legions during the Great Crusade

The seeming MkII and MkIII armor without any later marks does indicate an early start of the crusade, but I can't say how early, and that would dictate exactly how I feel about such an idea (Before Vulkan the Salamanders did not have that name, they have never said what name exactly so it can easily be a second compnay/etc. being present after the horrible losses at the tempest galleries- maybe a banner that somehow survived? This assumes at the outset of the crusade- if not then any explanation would work) But my next question is then is it only chance that this banner seems to be only the one with a number on it like that? There is script on the other banners but it is not made in any readable manner so I am not sure, would it just be stylistic choice to have the number easily visible on one banner but very hard to see on the others?

The one next to the Luna Wolves is definitely Alpha Legion. The banner has a three-headed dragon thingy and is being held up by a marine clad in blue armour.
The unknown banner is in green and yellow, which are the Salamanders Colours and it has a reptillian creature on it. The number 2 on it is somewhat odd, but could be explained as being the banner of a 2nd Company. Why the artist would paint only one banner as a company banner is beyond me though. The symbol on it also does not match the reptillian head used by the Salamanders. Very odd.

It is very interesting, do we have any information about the IInd Legion's "theme" ?

 godardc wrote:
It is very interesting, do we have any information about the IInd Legion's "theme" ?

No there is zero info about the 2nd or 11th theme or primarchs.

I'd make an argument for it being yet another alpha legion banner. I'm sure I've seen the hydra in a clock face pattern before, can't seem to find a picture though.

Like this:

It sucks that he had to put a Emperor's Children's marine right in front, who's to say the 2 isn't really a 3? Issues with this, Legion names are almost always written as roman numerals, So i'd have to say its either a company banner or that 2 is really just another object that looks like a 2, like a snake or another drake.

More likely a company banner