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Are there any new Skirmish games started to build up steam? I'm looking to get into something skirmish wise but all the current batch are not to my taste. I don't like Malifaux's card mechanics, I don't like Warmachines massive models for no good reason. I'm looking for something like Warmachine was during MKI or at least before the Colossals appeared.

I am tempted by Guild ball but not sure if it's what I'm looking for so putting some feelers out there.

There's always Infinity, I guess.

I agree with you that WM's giant models dramatically affected the style of game (in a way I also dislike).

Guild Ball has definitely been seeing a lot of attention, haven't played it though.

I played a little Wild West Exodus, feels like a lighter version of WM in many respects, though without a battlegroup equivalent. I've only played small games with it.

I've really liked Arena Rex, but those models are very expensive.
I believe all of those have free rules online.

The only more combo-oriented game I can think of is Malifaux. There a reason you don't like cards? Otherwise, I might give Malifaux another try.

I've had pretty limited experience with Wild West Exodus, but it feels a bit like Malifaux with dice and without the combos. So there's an option.

Twisted is also coming, which is another steampunk game. It's kickstarter just finished, so I don't know when it's hitting retail.

There's also Wolsung, Microart Studios game. Again, it's a steampunk skirmish game.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I agree with you that WM's giant models dramatically affected the style of game (in a way I also dislike).

Guild Ball has definitely been seeing a lot of attention, haven't played it though.

I played a little Wild West Exodus, feels like a lighter version of WM in many respects, though without a battlegroup equivalent. I've only played small games with it.

I've really liked Arena Rex, but those models are very expensive.
I believe all of those have free rules online.

The only more combo-oriented game I can think of is Malifaux. There a reason you don't like cards? Otherwise, I might give Malifaux another try.

I don't like the level of complexity cards bring to the game, I find it's just too much stuff to manage to the point where you stop playing the game and instead play your hand if that makes sense. I also don't like the cheating system because it gives your opponent too much control of your ability to function. It creates a double choke point where bad "dice" can shut you out of the game. If your opponent draws a good hand they can shut down your okay hand for anything that matters. That isn't my idea of fun, I would rather roll some dice and let them screw me or not.

I find dice feel better than the flip system. When playing with dice most people just go "3 or more", where as Malifaux players want to add the card and stat together then declare that. It's not large maths but it's enough that it slows the game down more than dice IMO.

Add onto the card stuff the 3 objectives and triggers and it's just too much micromanaging for little gameplay. I find the micromanagement over whelms the gameplay and the juice is no longer worth the squeeze.

I find skirmish games benefit from complexity due less actually going on. Infinity uses a dice system, but it's no simple '3 or more' to do something. It uses multiple D20's, different rolls need to be either above or below a stat, and you're stacking so many positive and negatice modifiers before you actually make the roll.

In cover, -3 to hit. Good range band, +3 to hit. Model has camo, -3 to hit. Roll multiple dice to try to get below my resulting BS but as close as possible. Opponent rolls their reaction (shooting, dodging, etc) and tries for the same. Opponents roll cancels and shots they roll higher than if they make their roll as well. It's basically blackjack with dice, but each person has a different target number after firguring out any mods, and the rolls that are under the target but highest are the ones that count.

Then the opponent (or you if they shot in reaction and won!) needs to roll above the damage value of any resulting hits, with more mods. Armour value and cover both add to your roll, but some weapons have abilities that modify either of those. Marksmanship can remove the cover mod, ammo types can affect your armour value or make you save on an entirely different stat.

Skirmish games get a big boring when you're basically rolling to hit, to wound and save. You have so few models on the table that complexity is needed to add meat to the experience.

I'm not saying dumb things down to 40k levels, I think something like Guild Ball has the right balance, where it has some complexity, but it doesn't give you enough control that you have to start micromanaging your own dice rolls. Having 4 triggers on something like a Bayou gremlin is just a little too much complexity.

I think Malifaux has a problem where the complexity across models doesn't scale well with the system. Consider it like a TCG, your common cards shouldn't be all be hyper complex because most people are going to be playing commons and can't handle that complexity as they start the game. Having a couple of semi complex cards and then a complex card in each booster makes for a nice learning curve. The Bayou Gremlins are the perfect example of an over complex minion, they have 7 abilities, most of them unique to them in some fashion. You don't have to completely trash the game's complexity, but there shouldn't be basic minions with rules more complex than some masters.

If the game was 3-5 models, they much complexity on a basic model would be fine, but when you have 8-10 models and a complex "dice" system, it creates something with too many moving parts for my taste.

Oh, I 100% agree that malifaux can get too complex- some pieces could have really used some reigning in in the editing process and I think it would have really benefitted from a variant with simpler objectives.

I think you're overstating bayou gremlins since an upgraded master is extremely complex, but there are pieces where clearly the design just kept going and getting tweaked and suddenly there were like 5 sentences to describe one rule and its exceptions.

At the end of the day, though, I really like the actual combat of the game, it's a great amount of control for me at least, though it does take a lot of headspace.

I'm very curious what they'll do with their larger scale game due to all that complexity. Not enough to test with them again, but enough that I'll probably buy a rulebook and/or starter.

Also, I really do think you'd like arena rex if you're looking for a small model count with an easy to react to dice system. Whole thing could be done with coin tosses, but it's got a lot of cool positioning tactics.

I suspect it's a problem many IT developers have, where the people testing the UI are already familiar with the UI so can't figure out why it's not functional outside of that sphere. It's frustrating as I like the design in theory, but in practice a model with 7 different rules all requiring different triggers on top of the card system is just a bit too much.

The release schedule also makes no damn sense.

We're starting to see spoilers for the 4th book and yet we're still waiting for model releases from the 2nd book. On top of making it expensive to get hold of models you want because you have to buy 5 other models with them.

I really like Wyrd and I want to like Malifaux, but I suspect it's going to end up being one of those games where I keep a crew in my bag because if I can't get a game of anything else Malifaux is always on the table.

It hasn't gotten a ton of traction yet, but This is Not a Test by http://worldsendpublishing.com/ is a very well-written miniatures-neutral campaign skirmish game in the vein of Frostgrave and Necromunda.

It's a post-apocalyptic setting, inspired mostly by Fallout, and has factions that cover most of the genre tropes (wandering traders, mutants, raiders, technology fetishists, mercenary lawkeepers, anti-technology neo-primitives). Each of the factions has enough variety to field loads of different lists. You could even straight-up field a Frostgrave warband in the game (Tribalists with a Shaman leader; bows and crossbows are viable options in the game).

The printed rulebook should be coming in September. If the author can figure out distribution to get the book into game stores, I'm sure it will take off like Frostgrave did.

 BrokenColony wrote:
I suspect it's a problem many IT developers have, where the people testing the UI are already familiar with the UI so can't figure out why it's not functional outside of that sphere. It's frustrating as I like the design in theory, but in practice a model with 7 different rules all requiring different triggers on top of the card system is just a bit too much.

The release schedule also makes no damn sense.

We're starting to see spoilers for the 4th book and yet we're still waiting for model releases from the 2nd book. On top of making it expensive to get hold of models you want because you have to buy 5 other models with them.

I really like Wyrd and I want to like Malifaux, but I suspect it's going to end up being one of those games where I keep a crew in my bag because if I can't get a game of anything else Malifaux is always on the table.

Agreed with everything there except the model thing. The core bundles are pretty good deals and from a logistical perspective (making HIPS sprues, packaging, shipping), it does make a lot of sense. I'm normally the first to shoot down "but they need to make money" arguments, but think that one's really just practicality.

I'll second "This is Not a Test". Its a better designed, and tested game than 90% of major releases from bigger studios. If you have a regular group of even 2-3 other players you can sustain and enjoy the game forever. Plus it has a lot of extra content coming down the road, making an insanely rich campaign-game, even better.

Frostgrave is simple, fun, cheap to get into, and slowly getting noticed.

Guildball is growing QUICKLY, and is absolutely an incredible game IF IF IF you are a highly competitive gamer. Like Warmahordes it gets better the more knowledge you have, and experience you have. Its less hardcore, but not by much.

As to Malifaux... I dislike it when people attempt to play it competitively, but its so complex a game that it also isn't a light/fun experience. I'd argue its a good, but unwieldy game, because every model just does SOOOOOO many things.

I'm going to throw Mopngoose Publishing's Judge Dredd Miniatures Game out there. Even if you're not a fan of the setting or the miniatures, it's a fairly solid sci-fi skirmish game for around half a dozen to a dozen models per side (at the extremes, a starting force of Judges will be about three models, while the Lone Vigilante does what it says on the tin, and the Zombie Master can have loads of shambling minions), nice simple combat mechanics and a selection of special abilities you can use to customise your heroes.

If you've already got some sci-fi miniatures, you're sorted. Doesn't matter if they're Space Marines, post-apocalyptic mutants, superheroes or street punks, you're sorted.

Mind you, "up-and-coming" it isn't. You might need to bully your friends into playing it.

The Osprey Wargames series has good stuff in it for Skirmish style games. Things like Frostgrave and In her Majesties Name are pretty fun. So is Lion Rampant/Dragon Rampant and Ronin/En Garde.

Infinity is pretty popular and growign as well.

I'd put a vote in for Guild Ball. The game's halfway through it's season 2 releases, so every guild (apart from the Hunters, who are a new team but have 8 players already, plus the Union players they can take) now has another new player and a new Captain. It's growing pretty quickly as well.

Wild West Exodus is fun, and it is a D10 system. Lots of factions, very terrain heavy. It is only a few years old, so the player base is small, but still very fun game

Have you looked at the Batman miniatures game? I actually haven't played it yet, but I've read the rules, and I think it has some interesting mechanics.

Individual dice rolls are quite simple as they are basically just against a target number, so at least it meets that criteria. Each model gets a pool of dice based on it's willpower stat, which you assign to different functions (attack, defend, move, special) at the start of the turn, so it requires some planning and resource management.

I think the movement rules are overly complex, and the damage rules are a touch messy too, but again, haven't actually played it yet.


And of course it has that "star power" increasing it's ability to draw new players in...

Over the past couple of months, my club have picked-up 'Beyond the Gates of Antares' - some of the recent releases have really boosted interest in the game, and some of the recent previews by Warlord look promising...

Anyone else trying this?

I'm hardly objective as the designer of the game, but The Roots of Magic is worth a look: http://therootsofmagic.com/

Its a duel of wizards in a fantasy setting, with simple rules. The challenge comes in trying to figure out the best moves to take down an opponent. The rules and cards are free downloads on the site.

Games are designed to play in 25-40 mins, so its a game that can fit into the time you have available,

We're enjoying Norsgard, from Poland with 2 funded kickstarters under their belt. Sold out a lot of places but worthy of inquiry. Models are stellar.

Deadzone is pretty amazing.

Wrath of Kings and Relic Knights are very interesting and different, but hard to get in Europe.

more votes for GuildBall and Arena Rex here.

you can see that they had similar design concepts and then went in different directions with them.
Guild Ball has WM/H style resource allocation and alpha strikes.
Arena Rex uses a heroclix style activation with less game winning combos.
both use a combat meter /tree to determine combat results but GuildBall's is less deadly than Arena Rex's.

terrain is much more a part of Arena Rex than Guild Ball and AR handles terrain as a HAZARD which I find really fun.

GuildBall is HUGE right now...nearly every game store in the New England is carrying it and supporting it...Arena Rex is in zero game stores and sold out at the web store.