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Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






My memory of ASOIAF minis is that they're smaller, smaller than GW even. But that could be because the details are finer/less heroically scaled. Haven't held any of the models in my hands just remember seeing a painted army as a convention prize and thinking "wow! those are teeny!"

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I'm fine with that. I used to run LOTR minis in my warhammer armies which were also 25mm vs 28mm
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

Got a ticket for an OP event on Tomorrow.
This will be my first go at the game.
It will be First Blood at 750 points.Been busy trying to get a force together for it.
Just wondering about the Trolls regenerate effect.Do they get four wounds back in total?

   
Made in us
Clousseau




Yes. Yes they do.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

Thanks for that Auticus.
The wording on the rule is not very clear.Maybe having the wording read "Regenerate 4" would be better.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Rihgu wrote:
My memory of ASOIAF minis is that they're smaller, smaller than GW even. But that could be because the details are finer/less heroically scaled. Haven't held any of the models in my hands just remember seeing a painted army as a convention prize and thinking "wow! those are teeny!"


Other way around, the ASOIF are larger than GW minis by a good bit, they stand up next to stormcast pretty well in size, some of them are ginormous too





CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




 manic _miner wrote:
Thanks for that Auticus.
The wording on the rule is not very clear.Maybe having the wording read "Regenerate 4" would be better.


There is an entirely different First Blood system being playtested now (well its on hold for Old Dominion but they will be going back to it after Old Dominion wraps up) that has cleaner language.

And those ASOIAF models look like they will fit in great with Conquest

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/07 16:54:10


 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

Good to hear about the rules wording being made clearer.
The Game of Thrones figures do look like they will fit in well.Wildlings for extra raiders .
Any tips on how to play First Blood?
Got a Nord force sorted.Bare bones at 748 points.
Blooded
Jarl
Huscarls
Trolls
Raiders
Fenr

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/07 17:54:45


   
Made in us
Clousseau




The only real First Blood experience I have is when we playtested it. I didn't like the mechanics since it was basically the core game only skirmish.

I would say the first question is to ask are you playing competitively or are you playing casually?

Nords are one of those forces that are very bipolar in that they are either really powerful (blooded, trolls, etc) or are lacking.

The new balance stuff for them giving them fury helps out quite a bit but I'm not sure how that translated down to First Blood.

My ASOIAF models are bowmen and crossbows that I integrate with the PB models (I bought them originally before those existed as PB models). The wildling idea is pretty solid though.

I also use Arena Rex models for my retinues and characters
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

It is casual from what i know of the event as most are new players.So lots still learning the game
I have the ASOIF Stark bowmen and Lanister crossbowmen.
The Grey-Joy faction seems to have a lot that would work well in the Conquest game.The Nightswatch have some good figures too.
Going to have to dig-out my Norsgard figures to see how they scale upto the Conquest figures.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




For those interested in battle reports - here is one I did in 2020 showing Nords vs 100 kingdoms. This was a photo play by play illustrating how the game works.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/08 17:10:06


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

 auticus wrote:
For those interested in battle reports - here is one I did in 2020 showing Nords vs 100 kingdoms. This was a photo play by play illustrating how the game works.




I enjoyed this, and sent it to a friend who is playing his first game in Sacramento this month. Thanks man.

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Warcry * Dust 1947 * Warmaster 10mm * Firefight * Konflikt '47 * Reign in Hell * Song of Ice & Fire * Horus Heresy 30K * Warmachine MK IV
 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

I had watched this video before.Would have been interesting to have seen what the out would have been if the Giants had came on when they should have.
I could have used the Jarls Surprise attack Yesterday.One of the other players had two Giants then only two characters and a small unit of Bowchosen.
Also forgot to add an extra attack dice for the Leaders in game and also for the re-rolls for wounding.Need to remember the Flurry rule that the raiders have.That too could have changed the last game for me.
Having your cards stacked right does help but then again you never know what your opponent will do with his.
I played against a Hundred Kingdoms force that had quite a few small units of four figures.Then lots of mages casting fire spells.
Got a pack of resin Stalker heads and a coin from the event and picked-up the Campaign book.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




Spam mages and priests are indeed a thing.

I enjoyed this, and sent it to a friend who is playing his first game in Sacramento this month. Thanks man.


Glad you liked it. I have a few battle reports for Conquest up there. They are fun to make
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Discussion on the 1.5.1 balance update, apex predators, and the upcoming mounted squires.

https://youtu.be/QDc0Mmzgwy0

5:00pm Phoenix time, 7:00pm EST.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

Another good little video.
Squires have quite a good movement on them.
Close to the Stalkers for getting to the center objectives.

   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






 manic _miner wrote:
Another good little video.
Squires have quite a good movement on them.
Close to the Stalkers for getting to the center objectives.


The Squires are a bit faster than Stalkers, even with the Stalkers having Vanguard. 21" with banner vs 19" with banner. And once they're there, squires are harder to shift!

I must say, I'm getting to a rough spot with list building. There's too many advantages to having multiple cards of the same unit, and too many units I'd like to run. And for theme/flavor I don't like doubling up on heroes, which makes it even harder. When looking at Mounted Squires, for example, I either take 1 of them and the obligatory Household Knights, and lack the advantages of running 2 cards of each, or I run 2 noble lords and confuse my theme (and add more mainstay burden to my army!)

The problem is even worse for my W'adrhun, who I feel have even GREATER advantages to taking multiple cards of the same unit due to warchanting and rigidity of their turn structure caused by that.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I am starting to see a lot of spam yes for that reason - you can mitigate / bypass the card system by having multiples of the same unit since you get to pick what unit goes.

Which is a shame but... it is what it is.

For me personally I stick to theme and narrative over mechanical list power. That means I will be playing at a disadvantage a lot but for me personally I'm not interested in reliving my powerlisting glory days of warhammer and sigmar lol. I got burnt out on those games because I tuned everything all the time and I really just enjoy running what I enjoy.

My list will likely include a unit of mounted squires with a unit of knights. I like my infantry and I like to see different units so my list right now really has no duplicates in them at all - but I do so knowing that if I run into a tuned power list that I'm going to have my lunch taken from me and I'm going to be shoved headfirst into a toilet and given the equivalent of a swirlee. (but I also don't play in tournaments any longer so it is my hope that that isn't a regular occurance for me like it was when I was trying to run sigmar campaigns)
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






I'd be skewered if I suggested this on the official discord, I think, but me and my friend have long been discussing the idea of a "Limited" keyword, which would be added in addition to Mainstay/Restricted for some units. This keyword would limit said regiment to 1 per warband.

So you could make Raptor Riders or Warbred Mainstay (Limited), Mountain/Ice Jotnars Restricted (Limited). And perhaps even some characters, who thematically exist as one-offs for a given organization Limited to mean they can only be taken once per army.

This would cut back on spam and make list building a bit more interesting overall.

But this seems like the opposite of what people want within the community-at-large.

One thing that I'm glad to see is that Para Bellum mostly seems to have unit balance down. It's not super egregious where I feel locked out based on unit choice (except for when I bring currently released W'adrhun Infantry to a match...). But the meta-game optimizations, like duplicating cards, maximizing restricted slots, army bonus rule choices, etc. can really, REALLY make the difference in lists.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




You would be skewered because when I was vanguarding I offered that same idea up and was fragged by a big part of the competitive community lol.

Raptor riders in a lot of the playtesting were medium mainstays and I was very very very vocal in them needing to change to either lights so they can't contest, or restricted otherwise they were opening the door to 7th edition whfb all-cavalry army.

There was enough support from the community to make them light but there was quite a cost in some of the arguments (and one reason I don't miss that discord to be honest).

The competitive crowd will usually always lean toward spamming because thats the natural conclusion of min/max gaming ... find the best and take as many as you can.

Your idea has merit in say a campaign or something though - which is where I spend almost all of my time and have for a great many years now.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






 auticus wrote:
You would be skewered because when I was vanguarding I offered that same idea up and was fragged by a big part of the competitive community lol.

Raptor riders in a lot of the playtesting were medium mainstays and I was very very very vocal in them needing to change to either lights so they can't contest, or restricted otherwise they were opening the door to 7th edition whfb all-cavalry army.

I wish the Movement stat had a larger point cost above 6 or so, because it seems to be hugely undervalued by whatever algorithms they're using. Most of the reason w'adrhun infantry feels bad to me is that cavalry control the engagements and between Household Knights and Centaur Avatara the only time I'm not dying from impact hits is against Dweghom. If cavalry units were like, 5pts more expensive per stand per movement above 6 I'd be like, "sure, all-cav armies, let's go!"

The competitive crowd will usually always lean toward spamming because thats the natural conclusion of min/max gaming ... find the best and take as many as you can.

Honestly why I want a rule that restricts how many you can take. If it was just me and my buddy playing, we're pretty good at limiting ourselves for theme/matching power, but a semi-local community is actually forming and because Conquest (or at least locally?) organizes itself in the form of tournaments, it's bringing the competitive spirit. I can't show up to a 3-4 round event with prizes and expect anything but good lists.

On an unrelated note, it sure is funny hearing people's opinions on what are/are not good. It's so wildly varied from person to person. And if any unit is bad for what somebody is suggesting to use it for, well, there's a specific combo you can put to buff them through the roof! (Ignore that you can employ that on a unit that's better to begin with...) but that's enough from me, I think.

Excited to get to play Conquest for the first time since before Xmas tonight. 1500 points, W'adrhun vs Nords I think it's going to be. Over TTS, so time to come up with a list with as little wheeling as possible...

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I'm more in favor of my own system's rules which give anti-cavalry bonuses to pikes and spears.

It means if my opponent goes all cav they risk facing all spears so it incentivizes taking a more balanced force instead of spam skew.

More expensive cavalry only stops that when it becomes suboptimal to take (and then you never see cavalry which is going too far)

because Conquest (or at least locally?) organizes itself in the form of tournaments, it's bringing the competitive spirit.


PB's goal is a robust tournament scene so yes... as the months and years roll on and as our community's grow which encourages the tournament gw crowd to consider it... you will start to see some hard skew in the next 2-3 years even in for fun lists.

For fun will be like sigmar for fun events - just another word for tournament tuning lol. (which is why campaign organization and deviation from standard is so important to me lol)

On an unrelated note, it sure is funny hearing people's opinions on what are/are not good


Indeed - its all about their local meta. Which is fun... and if you're a game designer trying to playtest it can be hard to get through all that noise to find the true reoccuring pattern!

But it is fun to listen to.

I spent a ton of time on the TTS platform so yeah it can be a pain but I'm glad to hear you get to get some games in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 20:38:54


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Not sure I understand what the problem is with taking multiple identical units, thats the way this game - and most others *should* be played. I always, regardless of the game, build my armies around redundancy with multiple identical units equally capable of fulfilling the desired role within my army, and *surprise* thats also how real world military forces are organized too. Frankly it just feels more realistic to have multiple instances of the same unit within my army, rather than each and every unit being a one-off/one-of-a kind unique single instance. The only time I would take a one-off if its a big centerpiece kind of model or unit (or character) in which case I usually build my army around that.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Different feels for different styles.

I was a 19k in the army - tanker. At Warsteed in 1996 in Korea (wargames involving the south korean army, the united states army, and we had some folks from New Zealand and the UK as well that year) we had about 40 different unit types in the wargame (I know that because I was a part of the S-3 regiment that had to set up the sand tables and put the models where they needed to go)

There were a dozen tank-types there alone.

Real war can and often does highlight various unit types fulfilling similiar if not same role - the dependency is on cash and supply.

If everyone could have the best tank for the job, everyone would just spam that. That's just not how the real military worked though - hell the ROK army was still running some Refitted Sherman Tanks straight out of 1944. The North Koreans (not a part of the wargame for obvious reaosns) were mainly fielding T-38s and T-55s (very old WW2 tanks) with a handful of soviet 1980s era T-72s. If they could... you damn well better believe they'd have been spamming the T-80s and better but they didn't have the economy for that.

In our batallion alone we were rocking M1 Abrams, the M1A1, and the M1A2s. Those involved different calibre main guns (105s and 125s), one had an auto loader and differing smaller arms.

In game terms that would produce differing results and therefore differing unit profiles and points - but all of our tanks were fulfilling the same role.

The benefit of spam in tabletop gaming is take the best, repeat it over and over. If your opponent pops it - no big deal. You have redundancy (as you mentioned).

The problem with spam in tabletop gaming is that it also leads to burn out and player attrition due to boredom and losing interest in facing the same thing over and over, which is counter to trying to community build.

In games like 40k that's not a big deal because you have tens of thousands of people wanting to join the ranks every day to replace the people who quit.

In smaller games it becomes more noticeable.

That all being said - is it bad? Does it make you bad by doing it? No. Its a playstyle and one I don't ever see going away short of rules forcing it out, which while I would love something like that personally (and I have BattleTech for things like that where you can run simulation style campaigns where you have a finite money supply so can't just spam the best over and over because you run out of money) - it is not a wise business venture because from a gameplay standpoint - the spam style is very popular from a gamist perspective due to its massive benefits. It does however contribute high to player burn out and you need to be able to churn new players to replace those getting bored and leaving.

But thats also why we have narrative campaigns. In those events we can enforce economies etc. Whereas tournament style gaming shoudl IMO be left to min max and spam however it needs to because both of those events cater to two very different mindsets and thats good, it gives something for everyone.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/17 22:23:54


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






chaos0xomega wrote:
Not sure I understand what the problem is with taking multiple identical units, thats the way this game - and most others *should* be played. I always, regardless of the game, build my armies around redundancy with multiple identical units equally capable of fulfilling the desired role within my army, and *surprise* thats also how real world military forces are organized too. Frankly it just feels more realistic to have multiple instances of the same unit within my army, rather than each and every unit being a one-off/one-of-a kind unique single instance. The only time I would take a one-off if its a big centerpiece kind of model or unit (or character) in which case I usually build my army around that.


My specific problem is that it's not SUPER fun when building a list to click Matriarch Queen, then Apex Master because taking an infantry unit is a terrible idea, then add 2 Apex Predators and.. oh the only mainstay I have that's not infantry is Warbred, so add 2 of those. Cool that's 1000 points. What's next? A predator on raptor, so now I have to add two raptor rider units... there's 1500. Well, what restricted do they have released? Apex Predator and Slingers? Okay, add 2 more Apex Predators to the list. There we go, 2000. If I give myself artificial constraints, I'm weakening myself and I'll get rolled by people not following those constraints. If I don't the list literally builds itself.

The second problem is if I want to take a Drum Beast... so I take a Warband which has the Matriarch Apex Queen, give her her two mainstay Warbred, and add a Drum Beast. Now I don't have any redundancy for my Apex Predator or my Drum Beast! So I take a second Matriarch Apex Queen, give her two mainstay Warbred, and add a Drum Beast. Phew, perfect, realistic army.

The third problem is my relatively tiny army consists of 2 of the Matriarch Queens in the entire world. Nice, hope I don't lose! Granted this problem is exacerbated by my suggestion of "Limited" units because it directly encourages more duplicate characters.

It's boring. Open up the playing field for other options. Give me constraints to work around. If I can't take 2 Warbred or Apex Predators in my Matriarch Queen's regiment I have to decide whether a second mainstay (and therefore restricted) is even worth it, or even if I'd rather take the "hit" and use Braves/Blooded over Warbred simply because I can more easily bring multiple cards of Braves/Blooded.

The benefit of spam in tabletop gaming is take the best, repeat it over and over. If your opponent pops it - no big deal. You have redundancy (as you mentioned).

It's not even about taking the best. If you're taking anything in Conquest and you're only bringing one of it, whether it's even a good unit in the grand scheme of things, you are harming the overall list. Like, tonight I'm going to be bringing W'adrhun Blooded, a unit which I think isn't great. My list only has room for 1 unit of them. My opponent, assuming he's savvy, has the intrinsic advantage of being able to guess when/how my activations are going to go because when I draw a Blooded card, I *have* to activate that unit. He can stack a deck in such a way to make it likely that when I draw that card I have to take a bad activation with it because I don't have a "backup" Blooded unit to stall their stall with.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Game went.... okay for me . Great for him!

Battle Report here. 1500 points Maelstrom mission. W'adrhun vs Nords. 2 Apex predators and 2 mountain jotnars!

my list:
Spoiler:

=== The Last Argument of Kings ===

The W'adrhŭn - 1500/1500
ScionBloodedEvade

Scion of Conquest [265]: Select as Warlord, Long Lineage, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 1, Crescendo, Mantle of the Devoted, Death's Gaze, Famine
- Blooded (8) [315]: Skirmisher, Standard Bearer, Leader

Matriarch Queen [130]: Apex Master, Tribal Spear, Famine
- Apex Predator (1) [205]: Icon of Conquest
- Warbred (3) [190]
- Warbred (3) [190]
- Apex Predator (1) [205]: Icon of Conquest

Characters: 2
Light Regiments: 0
Medium Regiments: 3
Heavy Regiments: 2

His List
Spoiler:

=== The Last Argument of Kings ===

The Nords - 1490/1500
streamTime

Blooded [185]: Select as Warlord, Bear, Tier 1, Tier 1, Tier 2, Vinda, the Dancer
- Mountain Jotnar (1) [160]
- Mountain Jotnar (1) [160]
- Stalkers (3) [165]: Leader
- Trolls (4) [310]: Standard Bearer, Leader

Blooded [125]: Bear, Tier 2, Tier 1
- Stalkers (3) [165]: Leader
- Trolls (4) [310]: Standard Bearer, Leader

Characters: 2
Light Regiments: 2
Medium Regiments: 2
Heavy Regiments: 2


Spoiler:

First turn I had no lights, he had 2 units of Stalkers flank+vanguard up the field to claim the side objectives. Turn 2 I only get my flanking Blooded deathstar megaunit, he gets 2 units of trolls (1 flanked from Blooded Warlord, 1 lucky roll).


I make a bad decision, and Fanatic Tier 3 Conquest chant to march-march-charge his unit of stalkers and kill them with impact hits from Death's Gaze


His jotnars flank on, I conquest march my Apex Queen up the field to threaten his Stalkers and my Blooded unit gets flank charged by trolls.


They disappear



My Apex Queen makes Stalkers disappear


My entire army finally comes on all at once but it isn't enough. They form a battle line (should've, uh, started with that). The mountain jotnar flank charges my Apex Queen through the woods (Hindering!). The trolls did a reform+charge to its front just to make sure it dies.
I lose initiative next turn, so the mountain jotnar kills my Apex Queen so when I draw the Apex Predator card, I have to activate my center Apex before he moves anything into better positions. I fail my charge into his trolls with a 2 into a 1 (re-roll from unstoppable)
His mountain jotnar march+charges my warbred, killing 1 of them. His trolls march up but do not charge my warbred, to keep them off the objective. My warbred do 13 damage.


We decide the game is over because his trolls move up and are standing on both objectives, meaning regardless of anything else he hits 12 points and wins at the end of the turn.


(You can watch our game as a VOD including post-game talk on our twitch channel, https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming)
Good game! Took 1.5 hours total. I amended my list, realizing that I had 0 reinforcement mitigations and if the list has good dice days and bad dice days, it's not a good list.
New List
Spoiler:

=== The Last Argument of Kings ===

The W'adrhŭn - 1500/1500
ScionBloodedEvade

Scion of Conquest [265]: Select as Warlord, Long Lineage, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 1, Crescendo, Mantle of the Devoted, Death's Gaze, Famine
- Blooded (8) [315]: Skirmisher, Standard Bearer, Leader

Predator (Cavalry) [130]: Wasteland Adder, Famine
- Raptor Riders (3) [210]: Huntress
- Raptor Riders (3) [210]: Huntress
- Apex Predator (1) [185]
- Apex Predator (1) [185]

Characters: 2
Light Regiments: 2
Medium Regiments: 1
Heavy Regiments: 2

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/18 13:28:44


I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

Honestly, having built about 4k points of W'adrhun for a friend and local store, I would *only* every field Apex and Warbred units if I had them for myself. The rest of the infantry in the army is just a miserable slog to build and don't fit on the stands (especially the slingers and the hunters).

Raptor Riders might be okay, haven't built those, but of all the kits I've built for Conquest I think the Apex is my favorite, its just well designed, fits together well, looks great, etc. Its a true joy to assemble and I'd gladly field an army of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 13:13:50


CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Raptor Riders are awesome models- and I love the look of the army led by a Predator on a...Predator with tons of Raptor Riders. The downside assembly wise is that those tails really make ranking up difficult.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






caladancid wrote:
Raptor Riders are awesome models- and I love the look of the army led by a Predator on a...Predator with tons of Raptor Riders. The downside assembly wise is that those tails really make ranking up difficult.


I've found that you have to put the raptors at a 45 degree angle on the base to get any form of ranking up. and god forbid if you get flanked, rear-charged, or even charge somebody yourself because there is spillover in every direction but 1!

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




ah i see the twin blooded / troll torpedos are still going strong
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






 auticus wrote:
ah i see the twin blooded / troll torpedos are still going strong


One of the Blooded (The warlord) never made it out of the Stalker unit and into the trolls. An Apex Predator to the flank will do that to ya.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
 
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