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Hey all,

I'm working on figuring out what list I should bring to regionals and I've come up with a couple of ideas for your consideration.

Due to my piloting ability and the fact that I have a lot of trouble after the first few moves, I'm not expecting to make the cut for the single elimination rounds, but I am hoping to bring lists that'll be fun and hopefully at least make better players work for their spots at the top.

First one:
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181st Hunters
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100 points
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Colonel Vessery (40)
TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), Veteran Instincts (1), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Maarek Stele (29)
TIE Advanced (27), TIE/x1 (0), Calculation (1), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

The Inquisitor (31)
TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Push the Limit (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)
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The idea behind this list is to bring a fairly tough Imperial list (relatively high hull and shields). The limitation of having no pilots above PS 8 means I expect to struggle with top level aces, but I'm hoping the Ion cannon will help with that somewhat (and pre-titles giving up all damage for a tractor beam shot seems like too much of a sacrifice).

I'm also a bit concerned that this list will struggle against high hull/shields builds, but that may not be so bad with Maarek shooting last to add targeted crits.

Option two:

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Jedi Hunters
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100 points

Pilots
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Darth Vader (34)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Adaptability (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Valen Rudor (30)
TIE Advanced Prototype (22), Juke (2), Ion Pulse Missiles (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

The Inquisitor (36)
TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Push the Limit (3), Homing Missiles (5), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

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View here

This one is kind of a min-max list, where I expect to either do well or very, very badly. Vader can go at ps10 if I'm up against aces or run last to get more crits if it doesn't matter. I actually think perhaps I should switch the missiles around to make Valen more of a threat (so he gets shot more often and takes his free action).

The biggest things I worry about with this list is TLTs, though hopefully the autothrusters will counter that somewhat, and swarm lists.

Probably another idea TK

So if I may ask, you are always lamenting your piloting ability, yet are bringing high maneuver Aces lists to the table.
What seems to be the issue?
Have you thought about running something a little more forgiving from a maneuver standpoint?

There are some decent Empire lists out there that use the Decimator with an Ace (usually Whisper), which is a nice happy medium between maneuver flying and brute force.

On to your lists:
List 1: I'm still not sold on Defenders until the Vet box drops, so Vessery with an ion cannon doesn't do it for me. I'd much rather have Vader w/ Predator (and the usual upgrades). Puts you at 97 points, so you could stay there for an initiative bid or buy Prockets for the Quis.

List 2: Too many odd missiles. The Quis should only ever use Prockets. Same for Valen Rudor, since his ability can be a nice nut kick when it triggers and gets you into procket range.

Just my thoughts. Good luck at regionals, fly confident!

I wouldn't fly the Defender without the upcoming fixes, it is just too costly, won't give sustained damage output, and will die pretty quick.

As for your second list:

Apostasus wrote:
The biggest things I worry about with this list is TLTs, though hopefully the autothrusters will counter that somewhat, and swarm lists.

Don't expect too many TLTs as their popularity seems to have waned as of late. I just played in a 92 player tournament last weekend and didn't face a single TLT list in six rounds of Swiss. Also, if you look at the Regionals results on the List Juggler you won't find that many TLT lists.

 House Griffith wrote:
List 2: Too many odd missiles. The Quis should only ever use Prockets. Same for Valen Rudor, since his ability can be a nice nut kick when it triggers and gets you into procket range.

I agree with Griffith about the odd mishmash or missiles but I disagree with Prockets on The Inquisitor; I don't think he should carry any ordnance, especially one that requires him to be at range 1. The Inquisitor is best at range three so he can take full advantage of his pilot ability and Autothrusters.

 House Griffith wrote:
So if I may ask, you are always lamenting your piloting ability, yet are bringing high maneuver Aces lists to the table.
What seems to be the issue?

I usually wind up putting ships on an obstacles when I get a little too cute/overconfident... I've also made a perfect maneuver plan only to have it fouled up by forgetting the activation order.

There are some decent Empire lists out there that use the Decimator with an Ace (usually Whisper), which is a nice happy medium between maneuver flying and brute force.

I don't own a deci or the shuttle (and really dislike the Decimator model) so those options are kinda out.

List 1: I'm still not sold on Defenders until the Vet box drops, so Vessery with an ion cannon doesn't do it for me. I'd much rather have Vader w/ Predator (and the usual upgrades). Puts you at 97 points, so you could stay there for an initiative bid or buy Prockets for the Quis.

Yeah, I was playing with other options and realized that Vessery is as expensive as some Whisper builds, so list 1 is probably out until the titles are out. Some of it, though, was wanting to establish myself as a Defender player before everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

One other limitation is that I only have a single set of the x1/ATC cards, so only one Advanced at a time.

List 2: Too many odd missiles. The Quis should only ever use Prockets. Same for Valen Rudor, since his ability can be a nice nut kick when it triggers and gets you into procket range.

Just my thoughts. Good luck at regionals, fly confident!

I see your point about the missiles, but both of those choices don't require spending the TL and the way I've been flying the TAP has me almost always taking the TL for the evade.

I'm thinking that the homing missiles on Valen make a good combination for an early round surprise -- moving him to where he could be attacked at R3 and focusing then getting the TL/evade to throw 4 dice with TL & focus (possibly) and still having the evade for Juke.

Prockets on the Inquisitor is a real trap for me as I want to rush him in for the missile shot, voiding, as Scootypuff mentioned, the benefits of R3... probably back with some modified/ alternative builds in a bit

Apostasus wrote:
Some of it, though, was wanting to establish myself as a Defender player before everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

No one cares about anyone being an "established" anything player, so neither should you.

I didn't play the TIE Advanced before the fixes came out because, like everyone else in the world, I realized it's not a good ship without the fixes. Just remember that you don't get extra tournament points for playing gakky ships.

So this is an idea that grew out of a fairly successful run of Vessery with decoy alongside Vader last week at the game night at my FLGS.

And as I was thinking about the advice above, I realized that I don't usually need to do much after moving adjustment when I run whisper. And so decoy seemed like a good way to make sure the Phantom fires first to get back to cloak before taking any incoming fire (one of the games I was able to get the drop on Whisper with Vessery when Vader was out of arc).

Add intel agent and Juno Eclipse to have two ships that can react after dials are set, and OL for some additional ace hunting (and a 2nd high PS choice for decoy). And I thought it might be a solid list:

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99 points
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“Echo” (39)
TIE Phantom (30), Intelligence Agent (1), Fire-Control System (2), Decoy (2), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

“Omega Leader” (26)
TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

Juno Eclipse (34)
TIE Advanced (28), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)
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Thoughts?

Echo just doesn't have the PS to be worth taking. There's a lot of PS7+ out there right now, and leaving your butt in the wind before you shoot and re-cloak is a recipe for disaster. If you go phantom, it's gotta be whisper w/ VI.

Scooty- Yeah, I don't normally take prockets on my quis, but if you had to take something, prockets would be it. You're likely not going to be at range 3 all game, and having a nice 5-shot opportunity can be great, especially vs. a turret ship.

Griff: with Decoy, Echo is going to be shooting at ps10 most rounds (switching off with Juno) or ps8 ... the range 1-2 of that EPT makes it pretty darn useful. It limits the maneuvers of the Phantom somewhat, but not a huge amount, I'd think.

It even gives me the chance to out PS Whisper. It's a trick, but a fairly good one, I'd think

Just to echo the sentiment of other board users- your first two lists are bad, the Juno/Echo Decoy combo has way too many points of failure to be viable in competitive play. So if you like high PS Imperial Aces lists why not run-

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)
Stealth Device (3)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Darth Vader (29)
Predator (3)
Proton Rockets (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100
Omega's there to be a dick,Inquisitor is classic sniper and Vader is a damage power house.

Apostasus wrote:
Griff: with Decoy, Echo is going to be shooting at ps10 most rounds (switching off with Juno) or ps8 ... the range 1-2 of that EPT makes it pretty darn useful. It limits the maneuvers of the Phantom somewhat, but not a huge amount, I'd think.

It even gives me the chance to out PS Whisper. It's a trick, but a fairly good one, I'd think

But that's the problem: it's a trick. A trick that forces and dictates movement of your ships for one particular effect. Any good player is going to seize on this and take it out. You're likely to end up focusing more on pulling off all your combos instead of trying to kill your opponent's ships.

As David pointed out, there are just two many points of failure.

Apostasus wrote:
Griff: with Decoy, Echo is going to be shooting at ps10 most rounds (switching off with Juno) or ps8 ... the range 1-2 of that EPT makes it pretty darn useful. It limits the maneuvers of the Phantom somewhat, but not a huge amount, I'd think.

You'll end up limiting the maneuverability of the most maneuverable Phantom just for the chance of maybe shooting before a handful of ships.

It even gives me the chance to out PS Whisper. It's a trick, but a fairly good one, I'd think

If it was that good of a trick, we'd see it a lot more often.

Back with an update/ report on my first Regional tournament. I ended up going with a modified version of the Vader-Inquisitor-Valen list above, in part because I had all the cards and partly because I'd had more experience flying the TAP than any other options. The list:

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Jedi Hunters
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100 points

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Darth Vader (34)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Adaptability (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Valen Rudor (31)
TIE Advanced Prototype (22), Push the Limit (3), Proton Rockets (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

The Inquisitor (35)
TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Push the Limit (3), Concussion Missiles (4), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

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My first game was against Palpatine Inquisitor and Echo and I really should have had a warm up game first, because on the 2nd or 3rd round, i moved my Inquisitor around for what would have been the perfect position (he took initiative) but I clipped an asteroid by millimeters. Then Vader bumped into Inky and, in part because my opponent (as he told me later) really knew the dials of my ships he kept me bumped or taking less than optimal maneuvers and I couldn't recover and he tabled me without any losses. 0-1

Second game, semi-TIE swarm with Omega Leader, Zeta leader, Wampa and 3 TIEs (Academy). I maneuvered much more carefully this time around prioritizing not getting shot over taking the shots. And as a result we went at least 50 mins (out of 75) before the first casualties (partly because I spread my fire a bit too). I wound up killing Wampa but losing Vader (green dice betrayed me) and had to scramble to kill more ships to get points up. I was only able to knock out an Academy before we went to time. Loss for me, modified win for him, but we both ranked this as one of the best games of the day for the precise flying on both our parts. 0-2 for me.

Third match was one I had been somewhat dreading going against a super-ish Dash (HLC, outrider, PTL, and Kyle Katarn) and Lothal Rebel (Ghost w/o title) with Chopper and Hera crew (and autoblaster turret). I don't think I made many mistakes this game (well sending vader into R1 front arc of the Rebel probably counts) but I couldn't put enough damage through - and when I lost Valen to a complete dice whif that stripped his shield and let through 1 crit (I was rolling 5 dice and I got all blanks and focus so even the autothrusters couldn't save me) ... and up popped a direct hit. Vader also died and I got Dash to half and the box to 1 hull before going to time. 0-3

At this point I dropped from the main tournament to play in a side event so I'd at least get some souvenirs. And I switched to cluster missiles on the Inquisitor (I would've used prockets but didn't have the second card) mainly as an experiment... I realized that I wasn't really getting that much return on investment for the Concussion missiles (4 dice usually with focus + one blank--> hit isn't that much better than 3 dice with TL & focus).

First game was against a Poe Wedge Biggs list. Could have been tough but my opponent ended up spending a lot of his maneuvers keeping all 3 together (basically in formation) so Biggs telegraphed the position of the other 2. I basically stayed behind/ out of arc all game and tabled him. 1-0.

Second game, another Dash- Ghost build, possibly the same one as before, but this time around either I flew better or he flew worse and i knocked both ships to half points and only lost the Inquisitor. Unmodified win but not much MOV.

Final round was me vs the only other 2-0 player (he was the son of my round 2 opponent) ... the TO acknowledged that we wouldn't have been paired except for the need to avoid rematches and not wanting to pit father & son against each other. Pre game we did the math and realized if we did an international draw we'd have cemented 1st and 2nd place. But we were there to play the games.

He ran a standard Imperial aces: Vader, Soontir and Inquisitor and he gave me the initiative so I was going to be outmaneuvered at almost every turn. I opened strong, boxing in the Inquisitor on turn 2 and heavily damaging him, then blocking both his Inquisitor and Soontir on turn 3 (i killed the Inquisitor with Vader but I might have been better taking a pot shot at Soontir to kill his stealth device... but Vader had lock on the Inquisitor, so...).

Unfortunately after that, I started flying very predictably and he pullud the more unorthodox moves, killing Vader (R1 Vader with TL still got no hits on the bugger and died as a result... more green dice betrayal) and I lost my Inquisitor before we went to time.

I finished 3rd in the standings for that tournament and had a great time spending 11 hours with x-wing enthusiasts from CT, MA & NH.

Thanks to you folks for the list advice- even if my results don't show it, I really felt like it helped. And for the record, I think the clusters on the Inquisitor were a bit underwhelming. I might try them with Valen in the future but I'm just not sold (as was mentioned above).

Now, however, I think it may be time for me to get over my fear of the fragility of TIE Interceptors and play around with something new

Apostasus wrote:
(Ghost w/o title)

Worst player ever. Only a clueless newbie would ever do this.

Final round was me vs the only other 2-0 player (he was the son of my round 2 opponent) ... the TO acknowledged that we wouldn't have been paired except for the need to avoid rematches and not wanting to pit father & son against each other.

Err, I think someone is confused here. If there are only two 2-0 players then you have to play each other. That's how the tournament structure works, there's no TO choice involved.

 Peregrine wrote:

Apostasus wrote:
(Ghost w/o title)

Worst player ever. Only a clueless newbie would ever do this.

Not sure if you're being serious or not, but I would definitely disagree.

A generic VCX-100 makes a pretty decent wingman for Super Dash. It's not top-tier but it certainly isn't gak either.