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I love the Valkyrie. I have four of them, and I'd get more if I could afford it.

The only thing is, like a lot of IG units, they're too expensive for what they can do. I think its a hold over from when fliers were very rare. So I have some ideas to improve both the Valkyrie and the Vendetta.

For the Valkyrie:

Lower its base cost to 65pts.
Comes with a multi-laser and two hell strike missiles as standard.
Hell Strike missiles are now 72" range, Strength 8, AP 3, Ordinance 1 Large Blast One Shot. Literally a one shot battle cannon.
Can change the two hell strike missiles to two hell fury missiles for free.
Hell Fury missiles are now 72" range, Strength 5, AP 4, Ordinace 1 Large Blast One Shot. A sort of big, one shot heavy flamer.
Can replace the multi-laser with a lascannon for +15pts, and can take two heavy bolter door gunners for +20pts.

So the Valkyrie is now a cheap flier dedicated to transporting squads. It's the Guards' answer to a drop pod. This is why I've swapped the weapons for the one shot missile options. It's role is to fly in, hit the enemy hard on arrival whilst dropping off the squad, and either fly off or give some fire support. Yes, the missiles are improved, but remember that they're one shot. And as Ordinace weapons, they'll effect your other weapons too. Remember too that IG squads are generally weak and easy to kill, so if your deploying one close to the enemy it needs some serious back up.

For the Vendatta:

Lower its base cost to 120pts.
Comes with a multi-laser and two multiple rocket pods as standard.
Multiple Rocket Pods are now 48" range, Strength 4, AP 6, Heavy 3 Blast.
Can replace the two multiple rocket pods with two twin linked lascannons for +25pts.
Can replace the multi laser with a lascannon for +15pts, or a twin-linked lascannon for +25pts, and can take two heavy bolter door gunners for +20pts.

So the Vendetta Gunship is now an actual gunship. It's shootier than a Valkyrie, which is why it has reduced transport capacity though. A Razorback to the Valkyrie's Rhino. It makes a good transport for a command squad, and works well as the lead vehicle in an emperors spear formation.

What do you guys think?

Looks pretty solid to me, the relatively low price of the Valkyrie is offset it being forced to arrive by reserves and for armies like Elysian Drop Troops it gives them a much needed boost for more men/upgrades.

Maybe make the upgrade from multi-laser to lascannon only 10 points like it is currently? Being only BS3 means you're probably not going to get the most mileage out of the lascannon, and 3 S6 shots will look even more appealing when you have multiple Valkyries vs. spending a significant amount of points on a lascannon.

That's a little on the cheap side for me. 65pts for 12/12/10 skimmer with S8 AP3 large blasts?

 Grimskul wrote:
Looks pretty solid to me, the relatively low price of the Valkyrie is offset it being forced to arrive by reserves and for armies like Elysian Drop Troops it gives them a much needed boost for more men/upgrades.

Maybe make the upgrade from multi-laser to lascannon only 10 points like it is currently? Being only BS3 means you're probably not going to get the most mileage out of the lascannon, and 3 S6 shots will look even more appealing when you have multiple Valkyries vs. spending a significant amount of points on a lascannon.

Whoops!

I should have had my codex on hand when writing that. I think I may have been thinking of the 5th edition codex there. Yes, 10pts for an upgrade to a lascannon.

And I'm glad you like it! I was thinking that since it is a basic transport vehicle that probably won't arrive until turn three or so, and it is the only way for an IG army to be genuinely fast and is essential to make a proper drop troop list, it should be cheap.

I might need to juggle the points and weapon stats around though.

@ raverrn

That must always be held in reserve, and its main weapons are one shots and reduce their overal firepower. And as scatter weapons they're naturely unreliable.

EDIT:

Got an update for the Vendetta:

It's 130pts base, and comes with a multi-laser and two multiple rocket pods. Can replace the multi-laser with a lascannon for 10pts or a twin-linked lascannon for 15pts. And the multiple rocket pods can be replaced with twin-linked lascannons for 25pts. That makes it possible to build one with the parts right out of the box, whilst keeping the forge world kit too. And the points tally up with the codex.

I'm just not sure about the new stats for the hellfury missile or the multiple rocket pod. I think they need changed to be more effective but I'm not sure about my suggestions.

Why would I change the Hellstrikes to Hellfuries? I'm guessing the latter was meant to have Ignores Cover?

 Valkyrie wrote:
Why would I change the Hellstrikes to Hellfuries? I'm guessing the latter was meant to have Ignores Cover?

doh. I forgot to put that in.

Yes, my bad, they're supposed to have ignores cover. They're missiles with promethium filled warheads so it's only natural.

There are 2 (simole) ways to balance units in 40k.
1. Decrease points for a higher model count.
2. Keep point costs the same, but make the unit better at what they do.
That said, I don't necessarily think a decrease in points is the way to go, but rather a buff. At least for valkyries.
Give them straffing run.
Change the hellstrike missile profile completely.
Strength 8 ap3 d3 large blasts. 72in range. For one use only, it had better be worth it.
Alternatively, give it an ability to rearm and or repair by leaving play.

Enable the valkyrie to purchase 2 standard missile launchers. Like what the sentinel can.

I never take valkyries with hellstrike missiles right now because it is so, so bad.

Go look at what other armies get for 65 pts.

Hint: NOTHING

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Go look at what other armies get for 65 pts.

Hint: NOTHING

Almost 2 Drop Pods, actually.

Well, I suppose that's pretty comparable to an AV12 flyer spitting AP3 pie plates. I would suggest a fair cost for the Ork bombers is around 15 pts apiece under these standards.

@ lord_blackfang

For 5pts more, those two drop pods will probably be able to arrive on turn one, at the exact point that the player wants them too. And they'll be carrying space marines, who are more dangerous than guardsmen.

Meanwhile, our flyer realistically won't arrive until turn three or so. The guardsmen on board this flyer are not as dangerous as space marines, will most likely die after being assaulted or suffering a single round of shooting at them, and will probably deploy by a risky Grav chute insertion that might kill them all.

As for the shooting, it's hardly spitting pie plates. It will only be able to fire one missile a turn, which will impact on the rest of its firepower. And due to the inherent unreliability of blast weapons, it's unlikely to hit its target dead on. And it's only got two of them.

This is why I proposed this changes. At the moment there's too much risk and not enough return to bother using an air cavalry list. Even with these changes there's still a lot of risks. So to make it viable you need to make it cheap.

The Hyperbole is hilarious by the way.

Perhaps you should be comparing it to other aircraft if you feel that being forced to use reserves is worth such a massive discount.

Stormraven Gunship: 200pts.
Heldrake: 175pts.
Crimson Hunter: 140pts (160pts with practically mandatory Exarch upgrade).
Dakkajet: 110pts (130pts with practically mandatory Fighta Ace and supa shoota upgrades).

65 is definitely way, way too cheap.

You know what Marines get for 65 points?

A heavy flamer Razorback with a dozer blade.

A Valkyrie is basically a flying Chimera. Chimeras are 70 points. The flying version should not be cheaper.

@ Frozen Ocean

Those all have much more serious firepower than a Valkyrie though. Even with my changes.

@ Furyou Miko

Chimeras are 65pts.

I take your points though. Maybe 95pts is more appropriate.

"It can only fire one battle cannon per turn" is quite the counterargument there.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Frozen Ocean

Those all have much more serious firepower than a Valkyrie though. Even with my changes.

Blatantly untrue. With your changes, you could take almost three Valkyries for every Heldrake. That's six battle cannons that get to fire twice per game, and three multilasers, for just over the price of a single baleflamer (not to mention far more durable). The Heldrake does not have a transport capacity because, unlike the Valkyrie, it is not a transport - it is a dedicated attack craft. Even within your own rules, why would you ever take a Vendetta instead of just two Valkyries?

OK, I hear what you're all saying. Since I think the Valkyrie needs to be dirt cheap I'll adjust the stats of the missiles:

Hellstrike Missile: Range: 72" Strength: 6 AP: 4 Type: Ordinance 1, Large Blast, One Use Only.

Hellfury Missile: Range: 72" Strength: 4 AP: 5 Type: Ordinace 1, Large Blast, One Use Only.

There. Basic, average one shot missiles. 85pts for the basic Valkyrie with two missiles and a multi-laser, with the Heavy Bolter Door Gunners an extra 20pts.

If you really want Valkyries to be a dirt cheap equivalent to Drop Pods, then fix them like this;

A Guard squad may deploy by Valkyrie for 30 points

Valkyrie Deployment: The squad enters the play via Deep Strike. On the turn the squad arrives, place the large blast marker anywhere on the battlefield within 12" of the initial deep strike location, before rolling scatter. Any models under the marker take a S8 AP3 hit. Afterwards, finish resolving the deep strike as normal.

another option... Keep the Valk as is (it's a solid flier for what it is) and ADD a new flier, we'll call it the Valent.

70 points, BS3 11/11/10 HP 3 carries 12 troops, no weapons, otherwise the useal special rules for the Valkyrie.



You can't really compare a drop pod to a flier. the drop pod is a stationary object with a token armernment.