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So I don't have a copy of the new death from the skies but I was starting to consider flyer spaming orks to throw a wrench at my local 40k community and bam a sign from the dice gods that as soon as I considered flyers all these new rules, wings and even a new model drops.

Everyone seems to be running unbeatable formations, knights, tau, green tide, flyrant spam, a billion different spess mareens faction combos. What they all have in common is no one wants to go against a flyer spam army............................................I am building that army! I loose every game, it's time I had a force that others can't put up with.

So first look the wazbom formation allows you to take multiple different types of planes together as part of a wing 1 of which must be the wazbom dakkajet. For those who don't know it's got a tractor kannon, twin linked mega blasters or telly portas, a twin linked supa shoota and a force field. So what compliments it's ability? There are a lot of ways to run the formation. My first thought is 3 tricked out dakkajets (27 shots at bs3 +the wazbom and it's kff)to make this formation end light to medium infantry blobs, this followed by a seperate wing of bombers(not sure which one to go with there either).

But this also begs the question what on the ground compliments a 4-7 flyer army? My idea is to have mek guns atleast 2 groups of 2-3 one for tanks/MC and the other for anti air (that way the planes above can focus on killing the people below. Kind of a classic inverse air shoots ground and ground shoots air atleast for the mek gunz. Next I'm considering shoota boys because planes can't shoot what's stuck in cc lastly I'm thinking deffkoptas, atleast 1 full squad with rockets and bombs to scout forward or out flank to kill that back yard artillery that could screw with my lines.


I hope someone on here can help, I know we are all new to the changes for flyers but any thoughts on synergy is welcome that's why this post is not in the list building section. Any comments welcome +/-

Thanks guys

Ork flyers are pretty bad. The more you take, the weaker your list becomes. Don't forget, our flyers can't land to score - they're purely for dakka. And they all have some darn underwhelming dakka for the points and for their crappy av10 survivability. If you really wana win with orks, your best bet is either an anti-meta list like manz spam/greentide or simply CAD and being better than your opponent in a scoring game.

There is the point about our fliers not being scoring, so you'll have to make sure you've got some durable guys that can camp on objectives (read mek gunz). If possible, I think it would be a fantastic idea to run (if you can manage the points) a large dakkajet formation with one of the formations that lets you waaagh every turn. Why? Because it gets you extra shots. A LOT of extra shots if you're running a lot of dakkajets (or any of them, really.) I've only run the dakkajet a few times (mostly because my games are always heavily objective based), but I've always been surprised at the accuracy of the dakkajet (BS 3 vs ground, and twin linked!). I'd do some test runs before I ran to the store to snag the planes, but you just might be able to do something cool, that's also very unexpected.

I had an idea of using a few dakkajets with WAAAGH band...but than i actually used one. They hit a lot. They kill very little. Than someone shoots at your jet with a TL heavy bolter and you got to jink cause you're 10-10-10 all around. Dakkajets never made their points back for me. They either arrive too late or kill too little to matter.
I had more faith in blitza bombers...but than i actually used one. Even before the nerf - when it could bomb after jinking and the enemy couldn't jink bombs. And it still underperformed.

My home fix is just 50% off the points of all our flyers in reality of 7-th ed. It'd make them fine. Kinda like the fix to kans which are not bad for 25 pts but total garbage for 50.

Considering how expensive it is for orks to field paper planes with no bite and how all our enemies can field better planes with more durability and firepower for less points I'd say this is one of several areas where the ork horde army will be out-horded. Considering how often we orks are paying much higher point costs for models that perform less then everyone else I'd also dare say that orks are a horde army only in the fluff.

I appreciate your responses guys,

But you see I'm not talking about the ork flyers in isolation, the new book allows squadrons now meaning you could potentially take 9 while still using foc. Yes the armor sucks but so does trying to get a 6 out of 6 rolls, and now that bolter isn't shooting the boys. Orks have the cheapest AA in the game let them do thier job. We are talking about 4 to 7 flyers here, how many 6s can you roll? Comparing it to other flyers lists is one thing but it's going to take a lot of focus to take down all those planes and when your army needs it most, not to mention the new ork flyer has twin linked telly portas meaning ifor more than 1 hits goodbye knight on a 5+ and tank hunter. 300 to 450 point squad just wrecked that list and that's a lot of points left over to try and stay alive not to mention if tau suits are spamming 4 meltas each all of those balisting skills go to gak, marker lights don't do nearly enough and they can all only fire at 1 squadron

For AA I just hide some Traktor Kannons inside KMKs. Or bring Lootas. Or Tankbustas (even with nerf).

BS1 and BS2 aren't that different and you'll get more mileage out of the aforementioned choices. Traktor Kannon in particular. In my experience, simply due to the one shot one kill that it has, it dictates where Flyers end up (either far away from the action, or trying to kill the Traktor in which case the rest of the army is unmolested). No Flyers? No worries, 33 points for 4 T7 ablative wounds.


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The thing with Flyer spam, is that you need good firepower and ability to maintain firepower as well as reserve manipulation.

Tyranids? Flyrants can start on the board and have an ungodly amount of dakka, supported well by Mawlocs. May change come the new FAQ.
CSM? Heldrakes are still damn good and don't have to jink. AV12/12/10 and IWND keeps it alive much longer. Also Hover for Ob Sec.
SM? Hover, superb arsenal, have a formation that let's you start 6 Stormtalons on the board.
Eldar? Best firepower, Autarch can control reserves easily. Don't even need to come close to you to fire (durability factor).

I don't have a copy of the new flyer rules, but don't they have the ability to give the wing a KFF save? That fixes your jinking problem right there. Sure maybe it only gives a 5+, but the fact is it's more of a psychological boost than a purely statistical one.

Let me take you out of vacuum thinking mode for a second: You're playing a game against some space marines who are spamming their all-powerful grav. Your flier comes on and does some damage, but you need it to carry its weight this game. Your opponent sees you do this and takes a tactical squad and shoots them up at the sky, trying to bring your flyer down. He's got a single grav cannon shooting you with its 5 grav shots. So the question is, what do you do? He's got to roll a six twice with only five dice, but if he does, he's immobilizing your plane and that could instantly kill it. The odds are against him, but if you don't jink he could kill you without you even getting a save. If you do jink, it might be for nothing, and now your plane only hits on 6s this next turn. Worse if you're a bomber.

Now let's say you're using the new flyer. He comes on and shoots his gun. The marine player sees orks using ranged AP2 guns that could ID his guys easy, and brings most weapons at it. He shoots that same tactical squad at it, with the same grav shots. Now the question of what you do is really easy. Do I jink, not shoot my main weapon next turn, for a 4+ save if he even hits me. Or do I not jink, be at full firepower next turn, and still have a 5+ invulnerable save just in case he gets really lucky?

I've seen people jink like crazy even when the math makes no sense to jink at all. I've shot single BS 2 rocket at Necron jetbikes and watched the entire squad jink because the guy was afraid of getting one IDed. The psychological advantage is HUGE, and the less you jink, the more effective you'll be on the battlefield. We could sit here and crunch numbers all day, but the problem with vacuum thinking is that we're not looking at the game in any way that it's actually being played. Sure math wise some things work better, but at the end of the day, its real people against real people, and people aren't calculators. If the game was played using only averages, then it would be the most boring game on the universe.

Sorry, I'm done with my rant. I guess all that to say, DO IT. People won't expect tones of ork flyers with invulnerable saves. And just the fact that you have those saves will keep you from jinking, which will keep you from wasting your firepower when you need it EVERY TURN. It's fun and it's unexpected, and nothing throws a player off more than unexpected.

Let's keep this discussion going

It's worth noting that the new flyer also has tractor kannons, that means 1 wing of the wazboms and the mek guns on the ground that's enough to actually deal with flyrant spam. My thinking on power playing this

A kustom wazbom formation + a wing of purely wazbom dakkajets. YOUR GET A 5+ AND YOU GET A 5+ EVERYONE LOOK UNDER YOUR SEATS

If you were going to do this you would want enough fliers to at least get the 3++. Then they might at least have the deterrent neccassary to make our opponent completely ignore them.

I am generally upbeat and excited for all the new things we get. But unless the Death from the Skies book gets rolled into a new BRB I don't think many will play with the rules, especially if Orkz become suddenly OP in the air with it's formations. I don't expect anything we put it in the air will be OP, especially considering Ork ground game is about attrition. Most opponents will likely consider just ignoring the fliers and focus on destroying anything that might actually score.

That said I should be receiving the new flier I don't have rules for tonight I believe. He will look good sitting next to my other three fliers, on the shelf.

EDIT (Why do most of my posts have a gigantic space underneath?)

I ended up picking up a digital copy of the book because I wanted the ork flyer rules. And dfts does give flyers a lot better rules but as previous posters said it depends on what the community excepts.
First all flyers now grant air superiority. This means if you have a flyer in reserve you can add or subtract 1 to your reserve roll and subtract 1 from your opponents reserve. This is great because you usually want your flyers on the table as soon as possible.

Next all flyers can roll a d6 any time during thier movement phase and take another 90 degree break turn if they roll thier agility value (one of two new stats) or lower. All ork flyers have 2 agility excerpt wazbom which has 3. This is great because it means you are less likely to not have a shot with your flyer on an opponent. Pursuit is the other new stat but it only adds to flat out moves outside of dogfighting stage.

Next all flyers with the fighter roll can chose to skyfire or not that turn. However they have -1bs vs ground targets. For Orks this isn't much of an issue since our fighter flyers (dakka jet only) has strafing run already to offset this. Flyboss upgrade only adds +1bs vs other flyers.

Next all flyers chosen from the same datasheet or formation form a flyer wing. This has 2 benefits. One being the addition of a wing leader who gets a bonus. The second giving an atk pattern which is another bonus.

Orks unlike most other armies have 2 sets of wing leader bonus. One just for wazbom as wing leaders and the other for all our other flyers. Ironically I prefer the other flyers set better as it adds more durability to the ork wing leader.
For Wazbom jets chosen as wing leader roll a d6.
1-2 all the wing leaders weapons add 6in to range.
3-4 all the wing leaders weapons add +1 str
5-6 all the wing leaders weapons add +1 shot
For all other ork flyers chosen as wing leader roll a d6
1-2 add 2AV to the flyer (this makes your ork flyer 12/12/12 and lasts until first glance/pen)
3-4 roll on the wazbom table above
5-6 each time you lose a hull point roll a d6 on a 5+ you don't lose the hull point.

Atk patterns offer different bonus depending on the position you end your flyers movement on the table and amount of flyers you have on the table and gives a bonus to each flyer based on the type of flyers (bomber/fighter/atk flyer). I'm not going to get into the details of them right here however. Suffice it to say it adds different useful bonuses such as +1 bs and +1 jink on front flyer or tankhunter to all or ignore cover to all or if you start fielding 4+ flyers things like 4+ invul and it will not die and interceptor to all flyers.

Finely there is also that reserve dogfighting stage between flyers in reserve that everyone was complaining about that's entirely optional and has a bunch of rules on how to do that but that's not relevant to the conversation here. Players can accept all the above rules and ignore dogfighting and flyers and the game would be better overall.

I'm not sure if I was clear in the above explanation but flyer wings and atk patterns even though they require some unit coherency are treated as independant models. So a flyer wing consisting of 3 different types of flyers in an atk pattern can all fire at seperate targets.

So.. Tellyporta Blasta

and Tellyporta Mega-Blasta

if I go buy the online Dfts am I going to find out the TMB is different from the TB? Or is it a typo?

They didn't include what the TMB does in my plane kit's datasheet. SO, I can change out my KMK for a TMB, but don't know what it does.

 Rismonite wrote:
So.. Tellyporta Blasta

and Tellyporta Mega-Blasta

if I go buy the online Dfts am I going to find out the TMB is different from the TB? Or is it a typo?

They didn't include what the TMB does in my plane kit's datasheet. SO, I can change out my KMK for a TMB, but don't know what it does.

The range is better at 18in.
Just a quick note on the new flyer.
It has all the normal ork flyer rules and a few new ones.
Waagh doesn't do much for the new flyer unless you take tellporta because it has no other assault weapons except the twin linked interceptor supa shoota uogrsde at 20pts.
It has a rokkit boosts rules which is really only good in dogfighting by raising pursuit and lowering agility value.
And it has a twinlinked KMK that can be upgraded to the tellporta which is the same str and ap but Insta death on a 6 to wound and no gets hot and best of all it's an assault weapon just for 5pt upgrade.
The reason assault is good is because during a waagh you can fire an additional shot with it. This is huge considering Insta death is the bane of all MC and GC models.
The wazbom also comes with a stikk bomb flinga which is a 5++ invul save on the first pen or glance. You can upgrade this for 25pts to a KFF which is a 5++ on all shooting atks for all models within 6in. So it's a good upgrade if you are flying multiple flyers.

Personally I would take the stock wazbom with tellyporta upgrade (especially in an army list with waagh each turn) and I would only take the KFF if I'm flying multiple non wazbom flyers. This is only 145pts with tellyporta or 170 (to much imho) with KFF.

gungo wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
So.. Tellyporta Blasta

and Tellyporta Mega-Blasta

if I go buy the online Dfts am I going to find out the TMB is different from the TB? Or is it a typo?

They didn't include what the TMB does in my plane kit's datasheet. SO, I can change out my KMK for a TMB, but don't know what it does.

The range is better at 18in. I'll get into the wazbom flyer more in a sec.

I was kinda hoping you'd tell me it was a Large Blast lol..

EDIT, and maybe Ordinance, because 6's are just more fun.

But orkz can't have fun unless it's randomly failing fun.

 Rismonite wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
So.. Tellyporta Blasta

and Tellyporta Mega-Blasta

if I go buy the online Dfts am I going to find out the TMB is different from the TB? Or is it a typo?

They didn't include what the TMB does in my plane kit's datasheet. SO, I can change out my KMK for a TMB, but don't know what it does.

The range is better at 18in. I'll get into the wazbom flyer more in a sec.

I was kinda hoping you'd tell me it was a Large Blast lol..

EDIT, and maybe Ordinance, because 6's are just more fun.

But orkz can't have fun unless it's randomly failing fun.

It's twinlinked so a 5in blast is good like I said the best thing about the tellyporta is the assault profile means waagh gives you 2 blasts each turn.

Well, at least we have some sort of reserve manpulation. A bit too expensive but it's something to force the opponent with reserves to waste the points on their own flyers.

Ork flyer formations and what's imho the best detachments for ork flyers. I'm going to purposeful ignore the ridiculous 7+ flyer formations because they are unrealistic in most games. Honestly I probably will never play with more then 3 myself. However the OP wanted to know the best ork flyer formations.
Air armada (waagh ghazkull) (5 models)
3 dakkajets
1 blitza bomber
1 burna bomber
Special rule: each time a flyer enters play it returns with all hull and one use weapons restored.

Ork skwadron (death from the skies) (6 models min, but 3 wing leader buffs)
3 flyer wings (2+ models per wing)
Chosen from blitza, burna, dakka
Special rule(s): 1 wing has +1bs and +1 agility and +1jink.
If all the flyer wings are within 24in of each other and in atk patterns they can flat out and shoot same turn.

Think about the above formation for a sec let's take 2 dakka jets. Put them in a vigilance pattern (+1 jink and +1bs vs flyers) give him the wing bonus above for +1 bs and +1 jink. You now have 2 dakka jets with 2+ jink(3+ jink on second dakkajet) and the wing leader is likely AV12 or ignores lost hull on 5+. Put the other bombers wings in vigilance atk pattern (+1 jink and +1str to bombs to front flyer) with each of their wing leaders either av12 or ignores lost hull on 5+. That's some durable flyers!!!

Kustom wazmob (death from skies) (4 models)
1 wazbomb blast jet (must be wing leader and have KFF)
3 other ork flyers (can be wazbomb as well)
Special rules: the wing leader and other flyers in formation have a 3++ if in fortitude atk pattern.
(Fortitude pattern gives 4++, it will not die and interceptor)

However while 4 ork flyers with 3++ and it will not die are a pain in the ass to kill even at AV10/10/10, once you lose a flyer you will no longer be able to fly in the fortitude pattern and lose the 3++ (and it will not die) and just have the 5++ KFF you can always fly one of the 3 flyer atk patterns for another bonus like tank hunter or ignores cover.

Problem is, keeping planes information is really difficult in practise.

Most people don't play on a gigantic empty table..

 grendel083 wrote:
Problem is, keeping planes information is really difficult in practise.

Most people don't play on a gigantic empty table..

Ya but according to the rules terrain doesn't matter to flyers as it can start or stop on any difficult, dangerous, or impassable terrain and never take a dangerous terrain test.

In which case wherever you move your flyer that is where it lands and if you can't balance the model in formation (which gives you a 6in leeway for Each model regardless) you follow the rules for wobbly model syndrome.

The only place a flyer can't move its base is within 1in of an enemy model.

Ah man a 3++ sounds awesome on flyers

but what your forgetting is the wazbom is a formation and a wing in 1 so it benefits from both. I'm pretty sure they don't loose the 3++ unless the wazbom goes down similar to how a formation only looses it's benefits if the hq dies, the wing is the additionalbum factor with its attributes, I don't have a copy of the new dfts but that's how I understood it, wings can stack as well unless I've interpreted that wrong. In which case a wazbom and 3 dakka jets followed by a seperate formation of more wazboms (or bombers) sounds pretty good right now.

Some one correct me. A wing can be formed through coherency but the foc slots are squadrons still of 1 type of flyer only jets or bombers not a mix. The benefit of the wazbom formation is it breaks the foc slot allowing a mix up of 4 different flyers without using a fast attack slot similar to a cad. That way you can spread the 3++ to 3 planes that would normally not be able to pair up with the Wazbom without using 2 slots.........I think?

Someone help me out

You can't fly the fortitude atk pattern without all 4 flyers in the wing; which the special rules also require for the 3++.

You are correct wing buffs stack with atk patten buffs and formation command benefits. I already explained how wings and atk patterns work above. A wing is formed by 2 or more flyers chosen from the same datasheet or formation. One of those flyers is chosen to be wing leader. And any wing can fly in an atk pattern. However to gain any of these benefits they need to be from the same datasheet or formation.

Not 100% certain, but does the KFF on the wazbom effect all ork models (ground and air) in 6"?

Anyone know if the tellyport mega blasta is an assault weapon? Not that it's world-changing, but the wazbomb flyer is a waaagh plane, and if the TMB is an assault weapon (like the TB), then it gets an extra shot on a waaagh.

Guessing it isn't, though, as that would actually be useful.

The telly porta mega blasters is an assault it's literally the only difference between the other option and only a 5 point upgrade. I think the point is just to be able to shoot the other weapons/benefit from a waagh the kff only effects other flyers within 6 of the model not ground units.

Gungo I appreciate you clarifying the wings but my question is really does a formation count as a cad or does it use slots from your foc slots with the rest of your army? It's the difference between being able to take just that formation or the formation with potentially 3 more squadrons of flyers without loosing benefits from foc

nateprati wrote:
The telly porta mega blasters is an assault it's literally the only difference between the other option and only a 5 point upgrade. I think the point is just to be able to shoot the other weapons/benefit from a waagh the kff only effects other flyers within 6 of the model not ground units.

Thanks for the clarification! Too bad, but then again, even if it did hit the ground, I don't think it would be actually used that much, as flyers move around too much to really have it as a reliable defense.

There actually are two more differences. One: you can inflict instant-deaths/autopens on 6s. And two: telly portas do not "get hot," so you don't have a 1/6 chance of overheating and not shooting, and possibly hurting your flyer. So, all that and a possible extra shot for a turn all for just 5 points? Yes please. I'll be taking that upgrade every time.

I thought it did get hot?

Well to be fair the KMK is twin linked so not really 1/6 gets hot
Also at half range the tellyporta is 18in it can be short ranged but the benefits far out way the cost.

The KFF rules still say all models not flyers however since flyers measure from model good luck getting any ground unit within 6in.


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nateprati wrote:
The telly porta mega blasters is an assault it's literally the only difference between the other option and only a 5 point upgrade. I think the point is just to be able to shoot the other weapons/benefit from a waagh the kff only effects other flyers within 6 of the model not ground units.

Gungo I appreciate you clarifying the wings but my question is really does a formation count as a cad or does it use slots from your foc slots with the rest of your army? It's the difference between being able to take just that formation or the formation with potentially 3 more squadrons of flyers without loosing benefits from foc

Neither a formation is a seperate detachment. It's a stand alone formation that can be chosen in any army list. An army list is made of as many detachments as you like.

Thank you gungo

I thought twin linked on blasts was just a re roll of the scatter?

nateprati wrote:
Thank you gungo

I thought twin linked on blasts was just a re roll of the scatter?

Most tournaments let you reroll gets hot, however new faqs will be out soon and may change all that.

gungo wrote:
Well to be fair the KMK is twin linked so not really 1/6 gets hot

It is exactly 1/6 after the FAQ. Though, you still have 4+ to save.
18 range is not great on a flyer, however.