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Are these guys any good? They seem kinda blah compared to the jetbikes, which are just a liiiiitle more expensive, but have so much more dakka, deep strike, and turbo boost.

So here's my thing, I've got a pretty rock solid Blood Angels legion force already, but I own about 5 unbuilt outriders that I was planning on building into a 40k grav-bike unit before I gave up 40k about a year ago. They've just been sitting around in a zip-lock bag since.

I'd like to build them up into a field-able squad, because red outriders are basically warhammer akira bikes, but how do I make them not suck?

Doing a max size squad with a bike riding primus medicae is an obvious choice, but I don't really want to purchase 6 more bikes.

Is running three of them naked a good idea? 90 point distraction unit? How about two with plasma and three with bolters? Would that suck? Maybe a unit of 5, give one guy an inferno pistol, and go tank hunting.

Ideas peeps? Any of you guys run these in small numbers?

Find a way to Outflank em

Also, dontfl forget they have scout. That can be really huge if you equip em with plasma or some such

Of they have scout, they get outflank by default so all good.

Yeah, outflank seems pretty appealing. Get them in on the side of the board, spray some plasma shots into some tank side or back armor, move them someplace they won't get shot to bits. Then harass.
I like it!

You can't selectively upgrade their weapons, they all have to take the same thing. This nearly doubles their cost right off the bat.

That's why I prefer attack bikes if I am going to be shooting.

Attack bike = T5 W2 A2, multi-melta = 50 points.
Legion bike = T5 W1 A1, TL melta-gun = 55 points.

If you're going to take them, I think they would be better off as a bodyguard of 6 with two power axes and a power fist for a character of your choice. Sadly you can't charge when you come in out of outflank (something I hope changes in 8th edition), so you would basically scout turn one and then turbo-boost for a scary melee unit that is all up in your grill turn 1.

My issue at the moment is how to reasonably portray the weaponry on horses...

Please don't. Horses don't really belong on the battle-field even with the WW1-inspired Imperial Guard. For Space Marines in power armour to be riding around on horses while macro-weaponry explodes all around them seems incredibly dumb. Even dumber than Thunderwolves.

But bikes do?

It's all fething ridiculous.

I'll do what I please thanks, stranger on the Internet, I wasn't inviting suggestions nor do I welcome them in this instance.

Comment on the internet but do not welcome comments. Cool story, bro.

You are free to do what you want. I did ask you politely not to, but you don't have to keep me happy, especially since I'm not exactly saying I'm going to fly to Devon, UK and throttle you with your own dumb horse miniatures.

I can see jetbikes as a viable fast deployment option on a 30K battlefield, attack bikes less so (at least as designed by GW, I am converting mine out of Elysian Tauros buggies), 2-wheel bikes not really, and horses strike me as utterly ridiculous

Ugh, Imperial Guard vehicles in a Legion army?

How gauche!

But, seriously, to offer your unasked for opinion on my creative choices, without any real notion of how I'm going about achieving it or any broader context as to how or why it may be justified is pretty seriously off.

This isn't even a painting and modeling thread where I'm inviting input, it was simply a throwaway comment.

Not solely in this thread you're beginning to build an image of yourself as a bit of a rivet counter, and no game needs more of those. Perhaps ease up a bit on the people who are doing it wrong eh?

If you are asking me not to politely voice my opinion on a public comment, I must decline. If my facetiously asking you to "please don't" triggered your victimhood, I profusely apologize. I really don't care what you do with your models an ocean away, it's going to be okay.

And just for the record, the Legion list has multiple Chimera-chassis vehicles, as well as Imperial Navy fliers. Congratulations, though, you managed to successfully derail the thread topic without providing anything of note or value. I'm off to count some rivets.



Aaaanyway....

Praetor, bike, iron halo, paragon blade, power fist - 195
6 Bikes (or horses, or were-bears), Outrider with power fist, 2x power weapons of choice - 230 points (compares favorably to a lot of melee units)

Not a bad close combat module for just over 400 points. You could add digital lasers for another attack, and depending on Legion you could further tweak it or make it better.

For the record, my initial post was specifically relating to Outriders, albeit a little tangentially. You then felt the need to take it upon yourself to critique my creative choices with near zero information and prompt the whole exchange.

Be sure to let us know if anyone else is doing it wrong though, you work is appreciated.

How about you both just move on?

Yeah, guys, I appreciate any input, but please don't derail my thread. Let's remember that even the American military in the 21st century uses dogs and horses (albeit in non-direct combat roles), and 40k is set in a koosh-ball soft sci-fi universe where Orks are a Thing with a capital T. Horses are hardly the most ridiculous thing around, and even make hard sci-fi sense in situations like warfare on a post-apocalyptic world, which are fething everywhere in the warhammer galaxy.

Let's get back on topic!

OMG, hand, I didn't realize the gun upgrade was for the ENTIRE squad! That's awful. Can anyone confirm or deny that this wording hasn't been changed in the newer books? Because I have zero interest in paying 55 points for a T5 MEQ with jink. That makes my requisite assault marines that everyone hates on seem like a bargain.

So, I agree with these guys paling in comparison to attack bikes. I have one assault cannon attack bike that is 45pts. It's the bee's knees. I'm not trying to duplicate that, I'm trying to make the best use of models that I already own that I think look really cool.

So, as a blood angel player, I could do 3 guys with 1 inferno pistol, or 5 guys with one inferno pistol and a serge with another pistol and an axe or something. Might be decent at outflank tank-hunting, general harassing, and backing up my frequently beleaguered assault squad.

Thoughts?

I'm not familiar with the BA rites, so I can't really say explicitly from a BA perspective, but as an EC player (or an aspiring one at least, still getting the bits together) they strike me as a much better assault unit than shooting unit.

They already have pistol + CCW, I'll likely upgrade to a Sgt with a Phoenix Spear and melta bombs, one other to a power weapon, might go lance, may go sword. 3 of these guys runs ~140 IIRC. That's T5, I5 and mostly 3 attacks on the charge, the Sgt will be packing AP2 and perhaps I6 in a challenge.

They have to exploit Scout to be worth it though, IMO, which probably means using Outflank to bully some backfield units. When I use them it means I can have a separate threat that could possibly arrive on a different turn when using Maru Skara, or can of course include them and know exactly when they'll arrive. A half dozen twin linked Bolter shots into a unit before you charge it isn't always the worst thing either.

I think if you're going to invest in upgrading the guns, you probably need a very specific role in mind for them and a Rite you can take advantage of to justify the cost.


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Oh, and I'm using the Crusade List book which is, AFAIK, the most recent print of them, and it sounds like the points quoted are all still the same.

Thanks for the update about the points :/

And I'm not using any rite of war, just blood angels wargear. We get inferno pistols for anyone who can take a plasma pistol at the exact same cost. Our one special melee weapon can only be taken by centurions, so our bike sergeants don't get any real buff like that compared to other legions. Still, I like your idea about the power Lance.... I don't think it would be as good as an axe, but it would look soooo coool, and for me, wound meqs on 2+ on the charge.... something to consider.

Question though, how do you use scout and outflank? I thought scout was a free move before the game starts, and outflank keeps you in reserve?

Scout confers outflank too.

I'm pretty sure BA got some Rites in the latest book, they're just waiting in Legion units and Sanguinius, hang in a sec..

Yep

Book VI contains rules for Legiones Astartes (Blood Angels) and some BA only RoW

 Walnuts wrote:
Yeah, guys, I appreciate any input, but please don't derail my thread. Let's remember that even the American military in the 21st century uses dogs and horses (albeit in non-direct combat roles), and 40k is set in a koosh-ball soft sci-fi universe where Orks are a Thing with a capital T. Horses are hardly the most ridiculous thing around, and even make hard sci-fi sense in situations like warfare on a post-apocalyptic world, which are fething everywhere in the warhammer galaxy.

Let's get back on topic!

OMG, hand, I didn't realize the gun upgrade was for the ENTIRE squad! That's awful. Can anyone confirm or deny that this wording hasn't been changed in the newer books? Because I have zero interest in paying 55 points for a T5 MEQ with jink. That makes my requisite assault marines that everyone hates on seem like a bargain.

So, I agree with these guys paling in comparison to attack bikes. I have one assault cannon attack bike that is 45pts. It's the bee's knees. I'm not trying to duplicate that, I'm trying to make the best use of models that I already own that I think look really cool.

So, as a blood angel player, I could do 3 guys with 1 inferno pistol, or 5 guys with one inferno pistol and a serge with another pistol and an axe or something. Might be decent at outflank tank-hunting, general harassing, and backing up my frequently beleaguered assault squad.

Thoughts?

I have the Istvaan collection Legion book, and that's what it says. I also downloaded a copy of the red legion book for reference and it states the same. We are about to get a new book at some point soon (cover spoiled at Warhammer Fest), so who knows what will change. It has me in a bit of a paralysis with my Alphas, so I'm just painting and assembling right now.

As far as your options, only one attack bike with an assault cannon? Silly boy! Those are a steal at 45 points. What you should do is run 5 of them for only 225 points of glorious 10 T5 wound mobile death. Doesn't get more point efficient than that!

Inferno moritat is just mean and is about to get a sick model.

If you like assault marines, the Day of Revelation Blood Angels rite is pretty neat, your jump infantry deep strike on the first turn of the game and get 5+ cover. Any deep striking models get pinning on their weapons, and everyone gets +1 Initiative on the charge.

I've got a twinnferno moritat. I used him one game and was honestly a little underwhelmed. Maybe I'll like him more once I get a destroyer squad for him to fly around with.

And I know 45pt assault cannon attack bikes are great, but I only own one, and I'm not in a rush to get more. Higher priorities. For me that's a unit that works on paper, but not IRL. Besides, I've got my attack bike, my 50 point assault cannon speeder, a dual assault dual ccw contemptor, a Baal predator, and a twin kheres mortis. If I want to spam assault cannon shots, I've got options. Also my blood angels are 3-0, so I'm pretty confident about them performing with out me having to spam units I'm not into.

Still can't wait for all the warhammer world updates! Super stoked!


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And I know about the day of Revelation rite. It seems cool, but I'm having a hard time making real practical use of it. I'd need two assault squads, IE 40 guys, and holy moly is that a lot of points and painting, AND I'd still need another troop choice to cap points on my backfield. UGH. I can only see this rite working for me in this short term if I'm doing my blood angels as an allied detachment for my Knights or militia, 'cause then I can do praetor, 20 assault Marines, speeder, and have one troop slot, one heavy slot, and one elite slot to play around with.

You don't have to max them out, you can try two squads of 15, which I find is easier to maneuver around our crowded battlefields. You'd probably lose those extra guys to difficult terrain checks anyway.

I feel like they're pretty overpriced unless you max the squad. Don't forget, a squad of ten, 25 points per dude. Woof. A squad of twenty, now you're at 20 points per dude. That's way more reasonable but still high enough that most people don't want to bother with them, and forgeworld is strongly rumored to be dropping their cost. A squad of 15 is still 22.5 points per dude.

Also that's 30 assault marines. I'm just coming off of 40k where if you have three squads of 5 you have a lot of assault marines. I own 20 assault marines who look old school enough to work for 30k, and if I really wanted to start chopping apart some of my 40k dudes, I could maybe, mayyyybe make another 10. Any more than that and I've got to open my wallet and spend more time building, when I want to just focus on painting the dudes I have and purchasing a few cool models I don't have anything like currently (like a leviathan dreadnought).

I guess what I'm saying here is, 40 dudes, built and painted, with old school jump packs, VERY tall order.

Like, building my old school tactical squad was much easier 'cause I could just raid my 40k collection for all the mk vi guys and all the blood angel guys with ornate armor. Boom. Can't do that with assault marines...

Well, sure, but come on dude, look at those jump packs.



You know you want that.

ugh, yeah, those guys are sex. NEED a destroyer squad in mk v armor, even though i think they're kinda overpriced