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I haven't really noticed anyone talking about the following:

How have wraithguard been affected by the FAQ?

I have two rules in mind:

1. Battle brother allies can't deploy in each others' transports.
2.Passengers in a jinking vehicle fire snapshots.

To my mind, this means;

1. Wraithguard + webway portal is no longer an option.
2. Wraithguard + wave serpent has ceased to be a truly effective means of transportation.

The fact that the wave serpent has to jink to protect its passengers means that the wraithguard won't be firing, in all likelihood, on the turn that it disembarks.

Is my assessment incorrect? Have people noticed this?

1. The webway portal isn't a transport and as such isn't affected by that particular ruling.

2. Correct, if it jinks and if the WG are armed with D-scythes. However all the player has to do is not jink. WG are tough enough to survive a Explodes result, but given the Serpent Shield reduces Pens to Glances on a 2+ that's unlikely to happen. All this might do is mean we see Waveserpents with Holo-fields more often.

It effectively stops a Wave Serpent deep striking via Webway Portal as the Archon can not start the game embarked in the Wave Serpent. Hopefully (for your opponents) you did not deep strike Wraithguard in a Raider using an Archon/Webway Portal.

Put a Holofield on a Wave Serpent and do not fire off its Serpent Shield until it has unloaded the Wraithguard. It gets a 5+ Invulnerable Save and drops penetrating hits down to glancing hits on a 2+. Or, get the Ghostwalk Matrix if you can ensure good cover saves for your Wave Serpent.

Additionally, you can make Eldrad your Warlord. He gives D3 units Scout. Give your Wraithguard Scout, which is conferred to their Dedicated Transport (assuming they start the game embarked). The Wave Serpent moves 12". On turn 1, it moves an additional 6", models disembark up to 6" from the access point. If you are running the Wraith Formation within a Craftworld Warhost, they also have a 6" Battlefocus move. When you add this all up, you are within your opponent's deployment zone on turn 1. Get the upgrade on the Wave Serpent that allows the WS to turn after is has fired, this way you can position the vehicle's rear facing forward to ensure maximum movement for the Wraithguard, and still not overexpose the Wave Serpent. If you don't have first turn, you can opt to Outflank with the Wraithguard/Wave Serpent as Scout confers this ability to a unit starting in Reserve.

Wraith guard plus raider is definitely not as much a thing but a WWP is just a piece of wargear that gives a beater and his unit deep strike.

But you can still Deepstrike the WWP Archon and WG without a Transport?

Are folks actually putting Wraithguard and an Archon in a Raider?

Yes, you can. The rules had absolutely no effect on battle brother ICs joining units before deployment.

You would put Wraithguard in a raider because a raider is an incredibly cheap source of defenses. Your Wraithguard could strike in, torch something, then it could just jink with Night Shields and it'd be relatively hard to destroy. Then the turn after your WG would have a 6" higher threat range.

But now with the indiscriminate nuking of the entire de codex with a single FAQ change (don't know if anyone's arguing they aren't the worst army overall anymore) the archon WWP taxi isn't worth the unit of Deadweight Warriors you have to field to use him.

Wraithguard are Bulky, meaning they count as two models for transport capacity purposes. 5 Wraithguard = 10 models (this is the minimum sized squad). An Archon = 1 model. A Raider holds 10 models and 5 Wraithguard + Archon = 11 models.

That is the point I am making. You can't fit 5 Wraithguard + 1 Archon into a Raider. This was not legal even prior to the FAQ.

And isn't the wave serpent the same thing? Transport 10? So a DE Archon isn't an option in that either.

No. Wave Serpents have a transport capacity of 12.

Basically, Wraithguard in Raiders got nerfed since you can't hold them in reserve at all anymore and if you start them on the board then the Guard have to start outside the Raider. Jinking also hurts them more than most because with only 5 shots you're not going to be hitting much on 6's, and D-Scythes wont shoot at all.

You can still start them with an attached Archon, there's nothing in the FAQ that stops them joining up and starting in reserve for a no-scatter Deep Strike via the WWP, though this is very much a suicide squad strategy.

Stating them in Wave Serpents is very viable though, with AV12, Holo Fields and the Serpent shield they're pretty survivable without jinking and will likely last long enough for you to get up the board and drop the Wraithguard off where you need them.

 Sarigar wrote:
Wraithguard are Bulky, meaning they count as two models for transport capacity purposes. 5 Wraithguard = 10 models (this is the minimum sized squad). An Archon = 1 model. A Raider holds 10 models and 5 Wraithguard + Archon = 11 models.

That is the point I am making. You can't fit 5 Wraithguard + 1 Archon into a Raider. This was not legal even prior to the FAQ.

Nobody has been talking about that because Raiders have Deep Strike anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Yes, you can. The rules had absolutely no effect on battle brother ICs joining units before deployment.

You would put Wraithguard in a raider because a raider is an incredibly cheap source of defenses. Your Wraithguard could strike in, torch something, then it could just jink with Night Shields and it'd be relatively hard to destroy. Then the turn after your WG would have a 6" higher threat range.

But now with the indiscriminate nuking of the entire de codex with a single FAQ change (don't know if anyone's arguing they aren't the worst army overall anymore) the archon WWP taxi isn't worth the unit of Deadweight Warriors you have to field to use him.

I will, because you're talking rubbish. The three games I've played since the FAQ came out were a defeat to Imperial Fists, victory over Tau and victory over AdMech, all of them pretty close games.

 Sarigar wrote:
Wraithguard are Bulky, meaning they count as two models for transport capacity purposes. 5 Wraithguard = 10 models (this is the minimum sized squad). An Archon = 1 model. A Raider holds 10 models and 5 Wraithguard + Archon = 11 models.

That is the point I am making. You can't fit 5 Wraithguard + 1 Archon into a Raider. This was not legal even prior to the FAQ.

Nobody has been talking about that because Raiders have Deep Strike anyway.

Reread my post. I specifically asked the question and received an affirmative response.

 Sarigar wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Wraithguard are Bulky, meaning they count as two models for transport capacity purposes. 5 Wraithguard = 10 models (this is the minimum sized squad). An Archon = 1 model. A Raider holds 10 models and 5 Wraithguard + Archon = 11 models.

That is the point I am making. You can't fit 5 Wraithguard + 1 Archon into a Raider. This was not legal even prior to the FAQ.

Nobody has been talking about that because Raiders have Deep Strike anyway.

Reread my post. I specifically asked the question and received an affirmative response.

I've reread your posts, it looks like you were assuming thats what people were talking about when no one, outside of Tradito's OP, was actually mentioning it. The other post on the matter was clarifying the transport capacity of the Wave Serpant.

I really hope people werent running Wriathguard+Archon in a Raider. It's not only breaking the rules but a big waste of 100pts just to remove scatter on your Deep Strike.

I don't think the new FAQ changes anything for WG for the following reasons:

1) People weren't taking WG in Raiders anyway because the Transport capacity didn't allow for an Archon to join them. Deploying a WG unit in a Raider is a bad idea because Deep striking the Raider is too risky and Deploying on the board is just asking for the unit to get stranded after the Raider explodes in a mass of fire.

2) If using a Wave Serpent, you were already equipping with Holofields, so (combined with Serpent shield) you never needed to Jink anyway

All the FAQ does is re-solidify the tactical efficiency of having a WWP Archon join a WG unit that is NOT in a Transport, or (if not using Allies) to continue using Wave Serpents as before.

--

Seemed as much. You'd just buy Raiders or Venoms for your shooting Aspect Warriors and use the Archons or Haemonculi for the WWP.