Switch Theme:

Jetbikes should be Skyfire targets  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

So looking at the Rulebook and Death From the Skies, I decided something. Jetbikes should be shot at Full Ballistics Skill when targeted by a unit with Skyfire. Here is my supporting evidence.

1. They are not affected by Strafing Run. The only units not affected by Strafing Run are Skyfire targets.
2. In Death From the Skies, Jetbikes are listed as Air Targets. Thusfar, all other Air Targets are Skyfire targets.
3. They are affected by the Hunter (C:SM) tank's Savant Lock ability. The only other targets that are affected are Skyfire targets. It actually creates an interesting result if they are left as is. Since the Hunter is likely to miss the Jetbike when they are shot at BS1, Savant Lock is likely to be triggered. And since Savant Lock DOES affect Jetbikes, they can be subject to an additional shot.
4. Jetbikes are basically the Skimmer version of Bikes.

One thing I do want to stress is that Jetbikes would NOT get the Hard to Hit rule, so they could still be shot at regular BS by non-Skyfire units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/17 17:30:55


5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I have not look at Death from the Skies at all, but I'd agree with those points.

Jetbikes should be treated in the same way Skimmers are. In seemingly every other case, this has been true.

   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Galef wrote:
I have not look at Death from the Skies at all, but I'd agree with those points.

Jetbikes should be treated in the same way Skimmers are. In seemingly every other case, this has been true.
I am a big fan of contiguity when it comes to rules, and this is one of those things that always bothered me. Now that DFtS further connected Jetbikes with other Skyfire targets, it seems like they should do this. I sent a message to WH40K Facebook, and they said they would pass it along. Hopefully, they will take care of this.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

There's a reason why I will never, ever field Hydras using the standard Codex rules but will always go for the IA variant. That reason is the Auto-targeting System.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason why I will never, ever field Hydras using the standard Codex rules but will always go for the IA variant. That reason is the Auto-targeting System.
Umm...what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason why I will never, ever field Hydras using the standard Codex rules but will always go for the IA variant. That reason is the Auto-targeting System.
Umm...what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Do you know what ATS does?

It negates Jinking cover saves and prevents you from moving flatout.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Kanluwen wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason why I will never, ever field Hydras using the standard Codex rules but will always go for the IA variant. That reason is the Auto-targeting System.
Umm...what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Do you know what ATS does?

It negates Jinking cover saves and prevents you from moving flatout.
ah, so if you could shoot Jetbikes, you would probably take the AST Hydra?

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Agreed on all points, the rules really read like someone honestly forgot to name Jetbikes in the Skyfire targets list. They're lumped in with Skimmers regarding pretty much every other movement-mode-dependent rule.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I read the title of this and nearly smacked my head with "but of course!". It seems entirely logical, as they are treated as a Skimmer in all other respects, and weapons with Skyfire can hit Skimmers, therefore they should also hit Jetbikes.

HOWEVER

This then calls Jetpack units also into question. They also are described as hovering and ignore terrain. Should this apply to them as well?

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Yarium wrote:
I read the title of this and nearly smacked my head with "but of course!". It seems entirely logical, as they are treated as a Skimmer in all other respects, and weapons with Skyfire can hit Skimmers, therefore they should also hit Jetbikes.

HOWEVER

This then calls Jetpack units also into question. They also are described as hovering and ignore terrain. Should this apply to them as well?
No, because Jet Pack Infantry don't have any sort of discontinuity the way Jetbikes do.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

 Yarium wrote:
I read the title of this and nearly smacked my head with "but of course!". It seems entirely logical, as they are treated as a Skimmer in all other respects, and weapons with Skyfire can hit Skimmers, therefore they should also hit Jetbikes.

HOWEVER

This then calls Jetpack units also into question. They also are described as hovering and ignore terrain. Should this apply to them as well?

Jetpack units though can turn off their packs and just walk, not an option for Jet Bikes.
   
Made in us
Not as Good as a Minion





Astonished of Heck

 Yarium wrote:
HOWEVER

This then calls Jetpack units also into question. They also are described as hovering and ignore terrain. Should this apply to them as well?

Why not Jump units who used their Jump Packs last turn, too?

Aside from one unit, Jet Pack units are not really that fast in the Movement Phase. While Skimmers tend more towards being choppers, the Jet Pack units (aside from the aforementioned Cavalry) tend to be little hoppers more than sky riders.

Just my perspective anyway.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Charistoph wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
HOWEVER

This then calls Jetpack units also into question. They also are described as hovering and ignore terrain. Should this apply to them as well?

Why not Jump units who used their Jump Packs last turn, too?

Aside from one unit, Jet Pack units are not really that fast in the Movement Phase. While Skimmers tend more towards being choppers, the Jet Pack units (aside from the aforementioned Cavalry) tend to be little hoppers more than sky riders.

Just my perspective anyway.
That certainly makes sense. But, honestly I don't think there are any discrepancies in how Jet Pack or Jump Pack Infantry function. If there was some inconsistency, I would be more apt to put them under the microscope, but as of right now the only one that looks out of place is the Jetbike to me.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

If you want to get technical, then either Jetbikes (and FMCs) are affected by Strafing Run, since they are Bikes/MCs with extra rules; or Jump and Jetpack units are not affected by Strafing Runs as they are not mentioned either.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Happyjew wrote:
If you want to get technical, then either Jetbikes (and FMCs) are affected by Strafing Run, since they are Bikes/MCs with extra rules; or Jump and Jetpack units are not affected by Strafing Runs as they are not mentioned either.
Interesting. But Jet Pack and Jump Infantry/Monstrous Creatures aren't listed as Air Targets in Death From the Skies, nor are they targets of the Savant Lock ability. However, the Jump and Jetpack rules specifically say that they are Infantry/MCs/GCs with additional rules, whereas there is no such thing said about Jetbikes. So because Jump and Jet Pack are still Infantry, thus being subject to Strafing Run. Jetbikes aren't necessarily Bikes with additional rules.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
If you want to get technical, then either Jetbikes (and FMCs) are affected by Strafing Run, since they are Bikes/MCs with extra rules; or Jump and Jetpack units are not affected by Strafing Runs as they are not mentioned either.
Interesting. But Jet Pack and Jump Infantry/Monstrous Creatures aren't listed as Air Targets in Death From the Skies, nor are they targets of the Savant Lock ability. However, the Jump and Jetpack rules specifically say that they are Infantry/MCs/GCs with additional rules, whereas there is no such thing said about Jetbikes. So because Jump and Jet Pack are still Infantry, thus being subject to Strafing Run. Jetbikes aren't necessarily Bikes with additional rules.



However, the rules for Jetbikes are in the same location as Bikes, and the rules for Strafing Run do not say Bike type.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Happyjew wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Happyjew wrote:
If you want to get technical, then either Jetbikes (and FMCs) are affected by Strafing Run, since they are Bikes/MCs with extra rules; or Jump and Jetpack units are not affected by Strafing Runs as they are not mentioned either.
Interesting. But Jet Pack and Jump Infantry/Monstrous Creatures aren't listed as Air Targets in Death From the Skies, nor are they targets of the Savant Lock ability. However, the Jump and Jetpack rules specifically say that they are Infantry/MCs/GCs with additional rules, whereas there is no such thing said about Jetbikes. So because Jump and Jet Pack are still Infantry, thus being subject to Strafing Run. Jetbikes aren't necessarily Bikes with additional rules.



However, the rules for Jetbikes are in the same location as Bikes, and the rules for Strafing Run do not say Bike type.
Because it is Jetbike, not Jet Bike. Like I said, I did talk to WH40K FB about this, they hopefully will FAQ or Errata it, depending on intent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/19 20:52:11


5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Proposed Rules
Go to: