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Hey guys, looking for some advice on using these (the heavy support choice, not merely the artillery weapons you can attach to guardian squads). I have 3 that I'm building right now. I'm thinking the D-Cannon might be good, but I worry about the 24" range. A strength D blast is definitely worth the points, though, imo. But in a general, take-all-comers sense, how have the shadow weaver and vibro cannon performed in your experiences?

Weaver is nice, cheap and hard to remove, especially for points. You can count on it to shoot the whole game.


Vibro is trash, worst and I think the only.actually bad unit, in the eldar codex. At best you get 3 lascannon hits

Yeah, I initially liked the way vibro looks on paper, but since I've been thinking about it the past few day, it seems way too iffy

 BossJakadakk wrote:
Hey guys, looking for some advice on using these (the heavy support choice, not merely the artillery weapons you can attach to guardian squads). I have 3 that I'm building right now. I'm thinking the D-Cannon might be good, but I worry about the 24" range. A strength D blast is definitely worth the points, though, imo. But in a general, take-all-comers sense, how have the shadow weaver and vibro cannon performed in your experiences?

D-Cannons are fantastic. I just move mine up turn one. I've got plenty to keep the enemy focused forward so a round of moving them into deadly position: worth it. they ablate damage pretty well in shooting. So I love th D-Cannons. Have since gosh, 5th Edition really.

The d-cannons are the best choice, but they really need to fit the rest of your army list.

Being T7 with a bundle of wounds, they can be difficult for your opponent to shift. Get them into some area terrain. being barrage, they don't mind having terrain partial obstructing their view.

The 24'' range can be limiting, but there is some tricks to help. Eldrad can give them scout. Suddenly, 30'' range for the first turn. A certain rulebook warlord trait can give infiltrate.

Being T7, they make a great bunker for a farseer (especially eldrad). Also, said farseer will boost their Ld8, making them much more likely to avoid fleeing.

For their points, they make a fantastic area denial tool. If you're running a gunline list, they'll make your opponent think twice about what he puts in range of them. If you're running footdar, your guardian/avenger squads can work as screening units, and stop them being assaulted.

Shadow weavers are a good second choice. They'll primarily find a home in an aggressive footdar list. Plonk them down on a backfield objective, and they will be there until they get assaulted.

D-cannons are easily the best choice though. They'll scare the pants off anyone using MC's, and expensive tanks. Also things like centurions, paladins, biker command squads etc. Anything T4/5 with multiple wounds/FNP will be worried.

They are cheap enough to make their points back and destructive enough to keep your opponents out of their 24" bubble (aka half the table) or focus a massive amount of firepower on killing them.

Awesome, thanks for the input guys! I think D-cannons are gonna be what I do.

Kind of a follow up question. This is my first artillery unit, and I haven't played against any yet. Each battery consists of 2 guardians and the weapon itself. 1 guardian is modeled onto the weapon. How do I do wounds? If the weapon is closest, then it takes wounds, but if it takes 2 wounds and is removed, then I remove the guardian that's on it because it's modeled on, and the second guardian is just there on his own with no battery? Looking at the artillery rules last night, I didn't really see any clarification, but that's my assumption right now. Also, is there even a way to cause wounds to the guardian that's actually on the battery, or is that just counted into the 2 wounds of the battery itself?

55pts for a T7 barrage D weapon is so good it's criminal not to take.

 BossJakadakk wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the input guys! I think D-cannons are gonna be what I do.

Kind of a follow up question. This is my first artillery unit, and I haven't played against any yet. Each battery consists of 2 guardians and the weapon itself. 1 guardian is modeled onto the weapon. How do I do wounds? If the weapon is closest, then it takes wounds, but if it takes 2 wounds and is removed, then I remove the guardian that's on it because it's modeled on, and the second guardian is just there on his own with no battery? Looking at the artillery rules last night, I didn't really see any clarification, but that's my assumption right now. Also, is there even a way to cause wounds to the guardian that's actually on the battery, or is that just counted into the 2 wounds of the battery itself?

No the two wounds on the artillery are not including the guardian that is modeled on it. Artillery follow normal wound allocation so the closest gets wounded first. I personally ignore the guy on the artillery piece and have two guardians on food for each battery.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:

 BossJakadakk wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the input guys! I think D-cannons are gonna be what I do.

Kind of a follow up question. This is my first artillery unit, and I haven't played against any yet. Each battery consists of 2 guardians and the weapon itself. 1 guardian is modeled onto the weapon. How do I do wounds? If the weapon is closest, then it takes wounds, but if it takes 2 wounds and is removed, then I remove the guardian that's on it because it's modeled on, and the second guardian is just there on his own with no battery? Looking at the artillery rules last night, I didn't really see any clarification, but that's my assumption right now. Also, is there even a way to cause wounds to the guardian that's actually on the battery, or is that just counted into the 2 wounds of the battery itself?

No the two wounds on the artillery are not including the guardian that is modeled on it. Artillery follow normal wound allocation so the closest gets wounded first. I personally ignore the guy on the artillery piece and have two guardians on food for each battery.

I figured it wasn't including the guy, but it's just weird that they say "2 guardians" in the unit, but the artillery piece is supposed to have its own wounds, and be able to be removed on its own, but by counting the guardian modeled on it, that's basically a free wound given to the opponent when they destroy the battery and I have to remove the model. So I'll probably play it the same as you, that makes the most sense in my head. Thanks! I might not even put the guardian on the artillery, just to reduce any confusion my opponent might have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
55pts for a T7 barrage D weapon is so good it's criminal not to take.

Cue Judas Priest's "Breaking the Law"

What is better for protecting a JetSeer Warlord for around 100pts?
2 D-cannon platforms or
3 Shadow Weavers or
2 Weavers with a Warlock

The idea is to place it near a VSG behind a barricade. The Jetseer buffs nearby units until the enemy gets too close, then the Jetseer hopes into a nearby Scatterbike unit and gets out of dodge.

AS Galef says. The Weavers are for tanking your farseers The D cannons are for destroying anything stupid enough to get close. Also a nice way to get an additional warp-charge into an eldar list with a warlock. I wouldn't say they are auto include - but they are great choices in any kind of list.

I also need to look into getting a VSG soon :/

I think I like the idea of 2 weavers and a warlock behind a wall (barricade or aegis). T7 with a 2+ cover (conceal) just sounds gross.

 Galef wrote:
I think I like the idea of 2 weavers and a warlock behind a wall (barricade or aegis). T7 with a 2+ cover (conceal) just sounds gross.

I think I might try that. Haven't given much thought to actually placing a warlock in with them. Could be fun!

The unit, will consist of two Guardians and an artillery piece for each one purchased.

Yes, the box and the model shows one guardian on foot, and one on the artillery. But rules is rules, so each one consists of 3 seperate models.

If you're just looking for a bunker for a seer, 3+warlock makes a pretty handy place for him to sit. Behind an Aegis, they become nigh untouchable to anything but combat. The Warlock/Farseer can even shoot a quad gun, with the autocannons matching the Weavers strength well.

That gives me more to think about as well. The aegis defense line gets talked about a lot, so I'm guessing it's well worth it to have. Maybe it's actually better to keep a guardian on the actual artillery, so that the two guardians can't be blown away as easily, quickly removing the artillery piece.

 BossJakadakk wrote:
That gives me more to think about as well. The aegis defense line gets talked about a lot, so I'm guessing it's well worth it to have. Maybe it's actually better to keep a guardian on the actual artillery, so that the two guardians can't be blown away as easily, quickly removing the artillery piece.

I don't think you understand. The RULES specify that the Vaul's Wrath Support Battery includes 3 models. Every model has it's own base. If you glue the Guardian onto the same base as the Gun then you'll need an extra Guardian model with his own base to represent the 2nd Guardian that the unit is supposed to have. Gluing the Guardian onto a gun is purely for aesthetics and has no affect on the rules for the battery.

My recommendation for deploying them is to have 1 Guardian in front of the Gun, and the second Guardian behind the gun. That way, no matter which direction they get shot from, you'll have 1 Guardian absorb a wound before the gun itself takes damage. The last model to die should be the last gunner.

Well ha-doi I don't understand. It's freakin' wonky. That's why I'm asking here to make sure I don't do some weird faux-pas by using only the models actually provided


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So then for clarity's sake it probably is actually better to just leave the guardian off the seat (imo) so there's absolutely no confusion, and have 2 standing guardians.

 BossJakadakk wrote:

So then for clarity's sake it probably is actually better to just leave the guardian off the seat (imo) so there's absolutely no confusion, and have 2 standing guardians.

Yeah I have no idea why the model is made that way. Sure it looks cool to have the Guardian manning the weapon, but that means that the kit (which is already way too darn expensinve) doesn't technically have all the models needed to field the unit. You need 1 gun on it's own base + 2 Guardians on their own bases, but the kit only comes with 1 Guardian on its own base. So you have to buy/use spare Guardians, as the other one in the kit is in a seated position and would be tough to model on foot.

Tactical question for you guys: In small games (under 1000pts) are single weapon platforms viable. As in, 2 units of 1 D-cannon, rather than 1 unit of 2?
2 units provide more board coverage and can shoot at different targets. And if they are far enough apart, the enemy has to use 2 units to kill them in assault.

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I'd say units of 1 is fine unless you add a warlock. When adding a warlock, it's best to have a larger unit so that his spells can buff all of the batteries.

Zimko wrote:
I'd say units of 1 is fine unless you add a warlock. When adding a warlock, it's best to have a larger unit so that his spells can buff all of the batteries.

Awesome thanks. I am in an escalation league through October and right now is at 750pts. LoW choices cannot exceed 1/3 of your points, so my typical anti-tank won't work (WK). I plan to have 2 units of 1 D-cannon and a Brightlance Falcon as my anti-AV. Everything near a VSG with a barricade.
At 1000pts, I can add a WK, so I will then use 1 unit of 2 Weavers with a Warlock.

side note, anyone else notice how many Eldar units start with "W"? Warlock, WraithLord, WraithGuard, War Walkers, Warp Spyder, Wave Serpent, WraithKnight, Windriders
That's weally a wot in the Warhost.

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 Galef wrote:

Zimko wrote:
I'd say units of 1 is fine unless you add a warlock. When adding a warlock, it's best to have a larger unit so that his spells can buff all of the batteries.

Awesome thanks. I am in an escalation league through October and right now is at 750pts. LoW choices cannot exceed 1/3 of your points, so my typical anti-tank won't work (WK). I plan to have 2 units of 1 D-cannon and a Brightlance Falcon as my anti-AV. Everything near a VSG with a barricade.
At 1000pts, I can add a WK, so I will then use 1 unit of 2 Weavers with a Warlock.

side note, anyone else notice how many Eldar units start with "W"? Warlock, WraithLord, WraithGuard, War Walkers, Warp Spyder, Wave Serpent, WraithKnight, Windriders
That's weally a wot in the Warhost.

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I like Hornets or War-walkers for AV at this point level.

 Xenomancers wrote:

I like Hornets or War-walkers for AV at this point level.

LOL, I sold my War Walkers as soon as Jetbikes could have Scatter lasers, so I don't have any of those. I'd use Hornets, but my CODEX doesn't have access to them.

If my LGS sold FW books, I might think differently, but I don't have easy access to those books. I get quite annoyed when someone fields FW stuff against, especially whole armies, so I'm not gonna do the same.