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So I thought it was pretty cool that Distortion weapons became D-weapons in this codex. Not only was it fluffy (because the weapons are tearing open mini black hole), but Distortion weapons seemed to be the original "D" weapons.
Anyone who thinks they shouldn't be D, doesn't read fluff and is only concerned with gameplay. That being said, it's a bit overwhelming to face that much D and gameplay is important.

So what if "Distortion" counts as D, but on a 1 to hit, something goes wrong and the weapon pulls the firer into the tear created by the Distortion weapon? Kinda like "Gets Hot" (so flamers & blasts have to roll too), but you roll on the D-chart for the model that rolled the '1', applying the AP of the weapon. Suddenly Wraith units could be wiping themselves out and using Guide on these units becomes paramount.

This is why WraithGuard are created in the first place, because the distortion weapons are too heavy and dangerous for living Eldar to use.
Thoughts?

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"doesn't read fluff and is only concerned with gameplay"

Is there something wrong with that?

"something goes wrong and the weapon pulls the firer into the tear created by the Distortion weapon"

Anything drawback is better than what currently better than the MarySueDar have: none.
"

I think it's simpler to use the previous rules which nobody seemed to have an issue with.

While this might not reflect the fluff as well it's no worse than yours which seems unrealistic as Eldar don't use weapons that kill their own troops.

Besides I'd say not showing fluff well is a decent trade for a balanced weapon.

I just made the wraithknight more points and made the wraithguard slow and purposeful unless there is a psyker in the unit.

Overwatch and raider drops were the biggest issues, games workshop took care of the latter, I the former.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I just made the wraithknight more points and made the wraithguard slow and purposeful unless there is a psyker in the unit.

Overwatch and raider drops were the biggest issues, games workshop took care of the latter, I the former.

There is still the no-Raiders drop using a Webway Portal, which is far more broken than the Raider, which still scatters. That said, that's not an issue with the weapons themselves.

I favor going back to the 6e rules for them, though making the Wraithknight's heavy wraithcannons Primary Weapon 2 (in conjunction with a points bump to 400pts base with suncannon/scattershield and +35 for the HWCs). Maybe the "6 to wound has ID" could be replaced with "6 to wound causes two wounds, no FNP", but that might not even be needed.

I'd be ok with them being D weapons but their cost should then reflect what it does. Make Wraithguards 75 points base and Wraithknights 500+ and people would probably not complain as much.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'd be ok with them being D weapons but their cost should then reflect what it does. Make Wraithguards 75 points base and Wraithknights 500+ and people would probably not complain as much.

Points cost adjustments fix OP units real fast. Make scatbikes 35-40 while you are at it. Because that's what they play like.

I find most of the Eldar Codex isn't broken in terms of actual rules, but just undercosted for what they're suppose to do. However Scatbikes do need a fix where it limits the scatter laser to 1 per 3 (even making them cost more will probably not help this).

That or let my CSM take a special weapon per guy damnit!

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I find most of the Eldar Codex isn't broken in terms of actual rules, but just undercosted for what they're suppose to do. However Scatbikes do need a fix where it limits the scatter laser to 1 per 3 (even making them cost more will probably not help this).

That or let my CSM take a special weapon per guy damnit!

Scatterlasers are the most broken standard heavy weapon in 7th ed because of hullpoint rules. Making it so I remove 40 pts off the table every time a scatbike fails a save or a jink would help IMMENSELY.

I mean in addition to that. I remember when being able to take more than 2 special weapons per squad use to come at a premium.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I mean in addition to that. I remember when being able to take more than 2 special weapons per squad use to come at a premium.

The modelers forced that change on the rules people by the way they made the kits. That is never going back to 1 per 3. I wish people would quit suggesting that as a fix. Just make them super pricey to field. Because they are troops that are better than my devastators. They should be pricey.

They weren't even suppose to be troops in the first place lol. It was a holdover from the original Craftworld: Eldar supplement from 3rd edition that got streamlined in 4th and just never got reverted even with the FoC shenanigans.

EDIT: Also we probably should get off bashing Scatbikes. This thread is still about D-Weapons.

In all honesty, it's hard to deconvolute the two with Eldar. They feed off each other. The Wraithknight wouldn't be as broken if it wasn't paired with scatterbikes on top of it.

D Weapons are fine except some of their platforms are too cheap, and the D-scythe shouldn't exist.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
They weren't even suppose to be troops in the first place lol. It was a holdover from the original Craftworld: Eldar supplement from 3rd edition that got streamlined in 4th and just never got reverted even with the FoC shenanigans.

EDIT: Also we probably should get off bashing Scatbikes. This thread is still about D-Weapons.

SInce I started this thread, I am more than ok to go off topic a bit to share my view on Scatterbikes.

There are issues that cannot be fixed by upping cost or moving them out of Troops, including fluff (Saim-Hann has so many Jetbikes they can be troops) and the existing kit (3 for 3 heavy weapons)
That said, there are 2 solutions that would satisfy both sides.
1) Scatter lasers really should be 15pts on the bikes. Every other platform replaces the Shuricannon for a cost (save the Falcon), implying that it should cost more
2) Make the "Troop" Gaurdian Jetbikes only able to buy 1 per 3 special weapon, but create a Fast Attack "Windriders" that can purchase all specials.
Both of those together would be a great compromise to tone them down, but keep them worth it.

Another option would be to make Scatter lasers only Str 5 and lower the Armour save of the Bikes to 4+.

Back on topic: I agree that WraithGuard should be around 40pts (a 25% cost increase) and D-Scythes +10. But if we are trying to make them more like Terminators, we should be able to mix their weapons as well. WraithGuard shouldn't have to upgrade every, 1-2 D-scythes would be nice. WraithBlades might actually be useful if they could mix cc weapons.

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 Galef wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
They weren't even suppose to be troops in the first place lol. It was a holdover from the original Craftworld: Eldar supplement from 3rd edition that got streamlined in 4th and just never got reverted even with the FoC shenanigans.

EDIT: Also we probably should get off bashing Scatbikes. This thread is still about D-Weapons.

SInce I started this thread, I am more than ok to go off topic a bit to share my view on Scatterbikes.

There are issues that cannot be fixed by upping cost or moving them out of Troops, including fluff (Saim-Hann has so many Jetbikes they can be troops) and the existing kit (3 for 3 heavy weapons)
That said, there are 2 solutions that would satisfy both sides.
1) Scatter lasers really should be 15pts on the bikes. Every other platform replaces the Shuricannon for a cost (save the Falcon), implying that it should cost more
2) Make the "Troop" Gaurdian Jetbikes only able to buy 1 per 3 special weapon, but create a Fast Attack "Windriders" that can purchase all specials.
Both of those together would be a great compromise to tone them down, but keep them worth it.

Another option would be to make Scatter lasers only Str 5 and lower the Armour save of the Bikes to 4+.

Back on topic: I agree that WraithGuard should be around 40pts (a 25% cost increase) and D-Scythes +10. But if we are trying to make them more like Terminators, we should be able to mix their weapons as well. WraithGuard shouldn't have to upgrade every, 1-2 D-scythes would be nice. WraithBlades might actually be useful if they could mix cc weapons.

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These seem like great changes, though perhaps instead of creating a new elite maybe give the extra guns to Shining Spears? Make them useful.

 arinnoor wrote:

These seem like great changes, though perhaps instead of creating a new elite maybe give the extra guns to Shining Spears? Make them useful.

That would be cool, but the issue I was trying to solve was to utilize that current Windrider kit that has special weapons for all bikes. Because of this kit, WR Troops will never go back to 1 per 3, unless a new unit is created to use all the weapons they come with. GW could release a new plastic kit that is Spears & WRs, but considering how new the WR kit is, that is extremely unlikely.

Shining Spears are literally the most incredibly okay unit ever now that they use their Spears for both shooting and melee. You'll still want Windriders over them, but if you want to be a special snowflake and use a bunch of different aspects they end up being...there.