Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So my friend is a long time collector of Orks, but has lost motivation to play as he has actually never won a game against myself or friends, mostly due to lack of synergy in his units, and a lack of anti-tank.

He's started playing again recently but has asked me to help him build a decent list that works better, and this is what I've come up with after looking at the most feasible ork units from the new codex, and how well they should perform

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to improve this further with more experience playing as orks? (and winning!) Our local meta at this points size mostly consists of Marines, Rival Orks with a mech heavy focus, and imperial guard. we usually play 1250 points a side, but with the odd tourney style 1850 point game, so I've configured the list into a Combined arms detachment and an Allied Detachment as a booster shot to the army.


Recommendations and suggestions welcome!

(made in Battlescribe, click the image to be able to actually read it )

I don't know much about playing Orks, but what I DO know is that if you are in need of anti-tank, take mek gunz. The new codex made them rather effective, they're cheap, and you can take a lot. For Anti-Tank either take the Kustom Mega-Kannon which puts out a S8 AP2 Blast without rolling for random stats or the Smasha Gun which is S4+d6 AP1. Yes, you heard me, AP1! If opponents take flyers, I reccomend the Traktor Kannon which is THE BEST ANTI-FLYER WEAPON IN THE GAME *coughexceptforTaucough* what with S8 AP3 Skyfire and Traktor. And to top it off, they're dirt cheap. Take a battery of about two or three, if you really like them then field five (they can be devastating en masse).

 Chapter Master Lulzhammer wrote:
I don't know much about playing Orks, but what I DO know is that if you are in need of anti-tank, take mek gunz. The new codex made them rather effective, they're cheap, and you can take a lot. For Anti-Tank either take the Kustom Mega-Kannon which puts out a S8 AP2 Blast without rolling for random stats or the Smasha Gun which is S4+d6 AP1. Yes, you heard me, AP1! If opponents take flyers, I recommend the Traktor Kannon which is THE BEST ANTI-FLYER WEAPON IN THE GAME *coughexceptforTaucough* what with S8 AP3 Skyfire and Traktor. And to top it off, they're dirt cheap. Take a battery of about two or three, if you really like them then field five (they can be devastating en masse).

Oh, wow! I completely skipped them while reading through due to past experience with them (Why in the hell would you fire a giant bubble blower at the many horrific enemies of the 41st millennium...) but the new ones do actually look like solid weapon platforms for the points cost. The only issue is they are bloody expensive for the models (£28 for a single glorified IG heavy weapons team...?) But we could use counts as as we're mostly playing friendly games among ourselves. Until I convert a batch of WW2 cannons in Orky fashion at least

So a few things I noticed off the bat, you cannot take an allied detachment with the same faction as the primary. Also the best anti-tank unit with orks are not mek gunz, they are tankbustas in a vehicle. I usually run 2 to 3 trukks of tankbustas (8 to 10 with a boss nob /boss pole, generally no pk on him). The tankbustas have the tank hunter special rule and with their S8 assault weapon they are a force multiplier for the list. Foot slogging orks generally get mopped up in most games due to the fact they move 7" to 12" a turn. I use warbikers with Zhadsnark so I can move 12" and turbo boost another 12" and they automatically get 4+ armour, 4+ jink (3+ after you turbo boost and if zhadsnark is attached it will be 2+ jink), and T5. You get to many benefits not to run them. Only units I would not run due to them dying way to quickly would be the stormboyz. The battlewagon for warboss/painboy and a big blob of boyz would be nice but you would need to take off the kill cannon and just goto 1 extra weapon (in case a weapon destroyed result occurs). Hope this helps.
-Raymond

 nitromorphine wrote:
So a few things I noticed off the bat, you cannot take an allied detachment with the same faction as the primary. Also the best anti-tank unit with orks are not mek gunz, they are tankbustas in a vehicle. I usually run 2 to 3 trukks of tankbustas (8 to 10 with a boss nob /boss pole, generally no pk on him). The tankbustas have the tank hunter special rule and with their S8 assault weapon they are a force multiplier for the list. Foot slogging orks generally get mopped up in most games due to the fact they move 7" to 12" a turn. I use warbikers with Zhadsnark so I can move 12" and turbo boost another 12" and they automatically get 4+ armour, 4+ jink (3+ after you turbo boost and if zhadsnark is attached it will be 2+ jink), and T5. You get to many benefits not to run them. Only units I would not run due to them dying way to quickly would be the stormboyz. The battlewagon for warboss/painboy and a big blob of boyz would be nice but you would need to take off the kill cannon and just goto 1 extra weapon (in case a weapon destroyed result occurs). Hope this helps.
-Raymond

Can you not have a same army allied detachment? It made sense to me as there are rival factions of Orks, such as Goffs and blood Axes that are like chalk and cheese lore wise, that may occasionally align for a Gud 'Ol Waaagh. Where is the rule saying this? Just curious! still catching up on the new rules, I was a 4th Ed. player originally so the game is very much a different beast to what I started with.

I've changed the battlewagon so it no longer has a Killkannon, and took a single boy off each Loota squad which gives exactly enough points for 2 Mek guns. They sound like they could provide good fire support running alongside the lootas to cover the backfield of the board while the blobs, bikes and stormboyz push aggressively. Punish anything trying to get round the flanks with a good hail of Dakka and TEQ melting blasts (one of my Marine friends main tactics is mass terminator dropping on the rear/sides)

It's right under the allied formation start. Just need to read a little bit since this is 7th edition.

You basically have a mix of everything and I'm not sure what your goal truly is for your friend. If it's just to win, well you really don't have a min maxed ideal list. If it's just to have fun there doesn't seem to be any theme or design to the list. I don't know what models your friend has access too but I'll go over a few types of ork lists and we can see which he prefers and can play.

The netlist: 1850pts
a pure min max, ob secured, spam of the best ork units.
Detschment 1- CaD
Zhardsnark- aka pk warboss on bike
Painboy on bike

Mek with rokkit launcher with tankbustas
7 tankbustas

8 warbikers-upgrade one to nob with pk
3 warbikers- upgrade one to nob with pk
3 warbikers- upgrade one to nob with pk

Gunwagon x2- for tankbustas/bullyboys
Gunwagon x2- for bullyboys (proxy trukks if needed)

Detschment 2- bullyboyz
5 meganobs
5 meganobs
5 meganobs

Detschment 3- renegade knight warden
knight warden

The above list gives you lots of av13, lots of armour penetration, lots of mobility, multiple threats, tough 2+ save fearless assault units, multiple fast 3+ cover save ob sec troops with one of them being a tough 2+ cover sv warlord star unit. The warden gives you much needed range firepower (usable in a pinch as antiair if needed). This is the best ork list by far right now.

List 2 the orcurion
It's fun because what ork player doesn't want to play the unkillable ghazkull deathstar and a completely fearless ork list, However it lacks ob sec and I can probably optimize it better. I'm hoping the faq does some tweaks to hell Orks out.

Ghaz council with 2 mega armour warbosses and 1 with Lukky stikk is only 719 Pts
This includes ghazkull, mad dok, 2x mega armour warbosses (1 with Lukky stikk), big Mek, 3 nobs (1 with waagh banner) in a killkannon battlewagon.

That's 4pks at 5 atks each (ghaz is more) all at ws8-9 and fnp5+ And rampage. Ghaz usually rerolls to hit and wounds as well put them in a battlewagon with Killkannon for 140pts

Then you have the waaagh-band which costs 690 pts With 6 squads of boyz on foot tarpitting up the board with bodies bubble wrapping vehicles and providing cover and all fearless (I usually have 3 squads of them as shootas)
Then you have a warboss with pk and 3 nobs on bikes for a small bike star
Then you have gretchin camping your home objective
a Mek with rokkit that I place with one of my two units of tank bustas

For auxiliary I take two units of 6 tankbustas (well 5 and 6) in trukks for 203pts
Then I have a squad of 7x lootas in ruins for 98pts

Everything is fearless so I don't waste points on nobs or boss poles.
Everything can move run and charge each turn except the Gretchin and all for 1850.
It's just a lot of bodies, one impossible to kill Death Star and a few small elite units.

So yea you can ignore ghaz unit and let it roll over whatever it charges, but you are still dealing with 60 fearless ork boy tarpit clogging up the board, a Pk warboss and 3 nobs on bikes, 2 units of tank bustas in trukks, a unit of lootas and a killkannon battlewagon. I'm sure someone can optimize the ghaz list better.

gungo wrote:
You basically have a mix of everything and I'm not sure what your goal truly is for your friend. If it's just to win, well you really don't have a min maxed ideal list. If it's just to have fun there doesn't seem to be any theme or design to the list. I don't know what models your friend has access too but I'll go over 3 types of ork lists and we can see which he prefers and can play.

I'd say were going for a more "competitive friendly" when talking about our goals, we're not looking for units that can output maximum cheese tactically, more well rounded "take all comers" kinds of armies. Currently he has access to oldschool ork tek, boyz, standard nobz, Stormboyz, Tank Bustaz, walkers, trukks, and a battlewagon. none of us have any of the newer "mini-titans" except a Stompa on the Ork mech guys list.

We also don't tend to go for Detachments, just Vanilla 40k rules on Combined Arms and Allied Detachments.

Ok well Orks have a hard time making a maximum cheese list regardless even the above list I mentioned while very strong is beatable in competitve friendly environment. However he likely doesn't have enough bikers or mega nobs for it or access to a knight warden he can borrow (however it's a fun miniature to build especially if he wants to make it Orkified).

If you are playing ITC rules the only stompa I would play is a buzzgrob stompa with a zhardsnark bike star buy even that stompa isn't amazing.

If I were him I'd likely build a ghazkull Orkorion list like I mentioned above. He likely has be models for it and it's the thematic and fun to run around with ghazskull smashing faces. He can easily proxy trukk models for gunwagons as well if he wanted.

We also don't tend to go for Detachments, just Vanilla 40k rules on Combined Arms and Allied Detachments.

If you play vanilla 40k rules then you still can't take allied detachaments as the same faction as primary. I mean if you guys make up rules and such then I guess anythings possible for your friends ork list....

 nitromorphine wrote:
We also don't tend to go for Detachments, just Vanilla 40k rules on Combined Arms and Allied Detachments.

If you play vanilla 40k rules then you still can't take allied detachaments as the same faction as primary. I mean if you guys make up rules and such then I guess anythings possible for your friends ork list....

Yeah we're gonna keep that one in as a house rule I think (Makes sense from a fluff point of view, it's just every Ork tribe doesn't have it's own codex)

So you didn't know allied detachment couldn't be same faction as your primary and now it's going to be kept as a house rule? I'm sorry but it sounds like you guys might just play willy-nilly and this is why your friend loses all his games. It's not going to matter what we suggest (and what we know works since we play all the time with orks) because in the end your lack of knowledge will defeat him. Sorry but this is just a poor excuse of a house rule. I'm done with this thread.

What makes the warbikes 3+ cover save ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't use bikes sorry, not sure what makes the 4+jink a 3+

nitromorphine wrote:So you didn't know allied detachment couldn't be same faction as your primary and now it's going to be kept as a house rule? I'm sorry but it sounds like you guys might just play willy-nilly and this is why your friend loses all his games. It's not going to matter what we suggest (and what we know works since we play all the time with orks) because in the end your lack of knowledge will defeat him. Sorry but this is just a poor excuse of a house rule. I'm done with this thread.

Wow... you seem really hung up about that rule... The reason we have all played this way is largely due to the kind of models people have brought to the table/owned, when we played using unbound lists it was, to put it bluntly, a clusterfeth. 1 guy brought pretty much every large Ork mech he could to the table (Stompa included) and nothing else other than 1 boy squad and 1 loaded battlewagon in a 2000pt a side game, while the rest of our armies all had the standard amount of AT you'd expect. Needless to say he steamrolled us, because no-one in the match could counter that amount of armor while dealing with another opponent on top. Using the allied detachment, it at least cut down the amount of options we could each bring to a playable level, while keeping the old "troops only" objective scoring for everyone. It just made the games more fair, as not all of us can simply afford to splash out £300 at a time just to counter the guy with more mechs and money

BAN wrote:What makes the warbikes 3+ cover save ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't use bikes sorry, not sure what makes the 4+jink a 3+

I believe it is the FW warboss biker's special rule Exhaust Cloud, it used to be that all Ork bikers had it but it seems to be absent from the newest codex.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Can anyone recommend which unit would be better to start buying as well out of Deffkoptas and bikers? Bikers seem like the more reliable option to me due to the twin linked DakkaGuns and cheaper cost, but has anyone had much experience using deffkopta squadrons, and recommendations on how to kit them? (currently he has 3 black reach Deffkoptas and a single biker squad, but the 'Koptas have usually just fired rokkits off the board then died... The joys of Ork ballistics)

Bikers mainly because they are competitve meta choice, can be a troops choice with zhardsnark and have regularly been decent units for Orks. Either with the old wazdakka Gutsmek or nob biker days or currently in zhardsnark list.

And mostly because GW still hasn't made a new deffkopta model and your stuck with a bad finecast direct order only model or hunting eBay for assault on black reach plastics deffkoptas or hoping to find discounted starter sets for the new battle of vedros just to get 1 assault on black reach plastic deffkopta.

Deffkoptas functionally are just super fast obj grabbers as a jetbike however they are low leadership and don't make decent squads because they break. I've see semi decent success with attaching a biker warboss and sometimes a painboy on bike to a deffkopta squad to make use mostly of the free scout and hit and run bonuses of deffkoptas but also to maximize twin linked rokkits and buzzsaws (aka powerklaws) in a list.

But honestly like I said before it's whatever list he likes to play, because without detschment bonuses Orks are a really bad codex. You are basically relying on a CAD of warbikers, meganobs, tankbustas to carry the weight on thier own. No one is saying play unbound, but to make best use of the ork codex he is going to need to play with either forgeworld such as zhardsnark available via PDF downloadable with a Google search and gives (exhaust cloud to his group, a powerklaw warboss at initiative, and most importantly makes your CAD bikers into obj sec troops) or using a multi detachment list such as waagh ghazskull.

Just to keep things at status quo with your group and with what he has I'd say zhardsnark bikers, tankbusta in a looted wagon or battlewagon maybe with a killkannon, mega nobs in trukks, deffkoptas, and lootas in ruins in a CAD.

gungo wrote:
Bikers mainly because they are competitve meta choice, can be a troops choice with zhardsnark and have regularly been decent units for Orks. Either with the old wazdakka Gutsmek or nob biker days or currently in zhardsnark list.

And mostly because GW still hasn't made a new deffkopta model and your stuck with a bad finecast direct order only model or hunting eBay for assault on black reach plastics deffkoptas or hoping to find discounted starter sets for the new battle of vedros just to get 1 assault on black reach plastic deffkopta.

Deffkoptas functionally are just super fast obj grabbers as a jetbike however they are low leadership and don't make decent squads because they break. I've see semi decent success with attaching a biker warboss and sometimes a painboy on bike to a deffkopta squad to make use mostly of the free scout and hit and run bonuses of deffkoptas but also to maximize twin linked rokkits and buzzsaws (aka powerklaws) in a list.

But honestly like I said before it's whatever list he likes to play, because without detschment bonuses Orks are a really bad codex. You are basically relying on a CAD of warbikers, meganobs, tankbustas to carry the weight on thier own. No one is saying play unbound, but to make best use of the ork codex he is going to need to play with either forgeworld such as zhardsnark available via PDF downloadable with a Google search and gives (exhaust cloud to his group, a powerklaw warboss at initiative, and most importantly makes your CAD bikers into obj sec troops) or using a multi detachment list such as waagh ghazskull.

Just to keep things at status quo with your group and with what he has I'd say zhardsnark bikers, tankbusta in a looted wagon or battlewagon maybe with a killkannon, mega nobs in trukks, deffkoptas, and lootas in ruins in a CAD.

Sounds like solid advice


I'm going to buy him some more bikes to get him started this Friday, with some more tank bustas in a trukk. Thanks for the advice!

Da Lucky Stikk is a great choice, but it shines the best when paired with mega armor. That warboss will be able to tank ungodly amounts of AP 3+ firepower no sweat. Just make sure he's got some sort of vehicle to ride in. Even putting him in a unit of trukk boys works as it gives some ablative wounds to LoS the AP 2 or 1 attacks. Honestly, re-rolling a 4+ is not worth it.

Also, boarding planks are neat, but not nearly worth the 15 points. If you're using trukks the way I do (keeping them behind Line of Sight blocking terrain, then flat outing them into position) then you're already in your opponent's face come turn 2, and you can go another 6" with the trukk, 6" moving, and then a 2"-12" charge (rerolling one dice with EWG!). Or they blew up the trukk. The one upgrade I always give mine is the reinforced ram. That thing is worth it's weight in teef.

If you have the points to spare, give your trukk boy nobs a kombi-scorcha. They're fantastic for their worth, and they can clear out opposing ork, or IG troops very well (AP4!).

When it comes to anti-tank, mek gunz can be your friend. I've generally just used klaws as my anti-tank, and so far it's work well for most things that aren't imperial knights. I do love using single gun squads of mek gunz to hold backfield objectives (especially if put in cover) for super cheap objective holders that can be very hard to shoot off (T7!). Of course, this only works if you've got the heavy slots to spare.

 Palleus wrote:
Da Lucky Stikk is a great choice, but it shines the best when paired with mega armor. That warboss will be able to tank ungodly amounts of AP 3+ firepower no sweat. Just make sure he's got some sort of vehicle to ride in. Even putting him in a unit of trukk boys works as it gives some ablative wounds to LoS the AP 2 or 1 attacks. Honestly, re-rolling a 4+ is not worth it.

Also, boarding planks are neat, but not nearly worth the 15 points. If you're using trukks the way I do (keeping them behind Line of Sight blocking terrain, then flat outing them into position) then you're already in your opponent's face come turn 2, and you can go another 6" with the trukk, 6" moving, and then a 2"-12" charge (rerolling one dice with EWG!). Or they blew up the trukk. The one upgrade I always give mine is the reinforced ram. That thing is worth it's weight in teef.

If you have the points to spare, give your trukk boy nobs a kombi-scorcha. They're fantastic for their worth, and they can clear out opposing ork, or IG troops very well (AP4!).

When it comes to anti-tank, mek gunz can be your friend. I've generally just used klaws as my anti-tank, and so far it's work well for most things that aren't imperial knights. I do love using single gun squads of mek gunz to hold backfield objectives (especially if put in cover) for super cheap objective holders that can be very hard to shoot off (T7!). Of course, this only works if you've got the heavy slots to spare.

Da Lucky Stikk boss's intention is to ride in the battlewagon with the squad of 18 boys and the CFF Big Mek for maximum resistance while charging for their front lines, and maximum Krumpin' when they do get there. We do already have a mega-armour boss though since old Ghaz A) got nerfed and B) had his banner broken after a nasty fall off the table... Will definitely recommend he swap between the 2 setups though depending on terrain!


And currently we have no combi-weapons, though I'll see what conversions I can crack on with after a rummage in the Bitz Box...


As for the Mek guns, while we don't own them yet they do seem like a really solid option in this codex, as you say having some high toughness models covering the flanks and stealing objectives would be a life saver, as Boyz often don't have the staying power (or at least re-inforcing them the way we play with troop only ObSec)