Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Listening to the last GBHL "Speak-Friend" has me thinking about what some of the best/worst units per army currently are in SBG. I've been enjoying scenarios, and more relaxed play, and mercifully the game is balanced enough that everything is pretty viable... But that doesn't mean there aren't units that are under-priced and get a TON of bang for their buck, or over-priced units that are just out-matched.

So with a more competitive eye... what do you guys think some of the best and worst, non-hero units are in any given army you play, or have played against in SBG?

In my, albeit limited experience I will say I am always disappointed by Grim-Hammers in my Erebor forces, especially when the Warriors of Erebor themselves seem so much better. The point premium tacked on to Grim-Hammers for their throwing hammers (something they should rarely benefit from with their Dwarf speed) is just too high.

On the other end of things, my wife's Wanderers in the Wild added some Woses/Wildmen as a way to bolster numbers, but we could instantly tell they were WAY better than their 8pts/model would imply. Again on the "worst" end of the spectrum... Eagles seem to have value for scenario play, and can be positioned for effectiveness, but in almost every game it seems like Ents just out-perform them. Not having a rule like Shelob where they are treated like Monsterous Cav on the charge, SUCKS, as they need more than 2 attacks, and just have little to capture to flavor of these giant-swooping creatures.

The problem with labeling some units competitive and some non are really about how they are used and what they are paired with. Some will stand out others wont but virtually any unit can be effective in a competitive environment depending on its match up and cohesiveness.

For me and my elves the basic elf with elf bow has been a champion. The elf shooting has taken down so many guys long before they can even get to the line of swords and spears. Rumil and legolas are monsters for the points as well as thranduil.

Im not looking at the hobbit stuff because that's another level a lot of it. Models like the scribe which can bring ~5-6 new goblins on a turn is insane. The goblin king wrecking face with his 3+ save to all wounds and more and more goblins coming off any table edge is the reason why the scribe is banned in most tournament play. Mirkwood rangers having 2 attacks base then adding attacks based on how many guys they are fighting and with a fight of 5!! with an elven cloak and a bow that is str 3 shoot 3? insane

Oh, I agree Namiel. Nearly everything in SBG is surprisingly viable, but even so I think some units just do better than others, or happen to have a few too many bonuses in-built for their points.

For example, said Woses Warriors all have Elven Cloaks, and blow-darts, despite already having a stat-line of an 8pt model in any other army. That means those "upgrades" are essentially free, versus the 4-5pts that another army would pay for them.

Sure, they're the only infantry choice in the list, viewed as a self-contained thing, which provides context, but anyone would agree the result is a GREAT unit. :-)

But yes, SBG doesn't have "competitive vs non-competitive" versus shades of grey.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, how does Goblin Scribe's "summons" interact with the breaking rules? Aren't they just fodder to be killed, speeding the way to breaking the opponent, if the break-point is based on original list, numbers?

As a horde Goblins rule... but a few wandering in on their own should be meat. :-p

I have not found that Mirkwood Rangers are that great for their points cost.

I tend to do not look at the Hobbit. I loathe the movies and the designer is not the same of the old game. And you can see it.

Concerning the old game, I'd say Khazad Guard. Def 7, Str 4 decent fight and courage + bodyguard/ 11 points. Is great without being annoying. For Durin's Folk, Iron guard and normal Shielded warriors are great, too.

Uruk-hai as a whole. None shine but everybody is decent or good and is a good mass of trained soldiers if played well. Cost is accurate.

Compared with Uruk, Morannons. Less fight and courage, but you pay less for the same Str 4 and a really needed Def 6

Black Guard of Barad Dur comes to mind. Never played them because I like neither the models nor their rules. S5 on a warrior was simply a bad idea.
The hunter Orcs on foot who got 2 Attacks while costing 8 pts seem very good on paper. On Wargs they are overcosted though, since they lose their additional attack there.
The fat guys from Abrakhan are also way too cheap. They practically have S6, while their king has as many attacks as the Balrog...

That "Kings Huntsman" or whatever its called. Underwhelming.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Oh, I agree Namiel. Nearly everything in SBG is surprisingly viable, but even so I think some units just do better than others, or happen to have a few too many bonuses in-built for their points.

For example, said Woses Warriors all have Elven Cloaks, and blow-darts, despite already having a stat-line of an 8pt model in any other army. That means those "upgrades" are essentially free, versus the 4-5pts that another army would pay for them.

Sure, they're the only infantry choice in the list, viewed as a self-contained thing, which provides context, but anyone would agree the result is a GREAT unit. :-)

But yes, SBG doesn't have "competitive vs non-competitive" versus shades of grey.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, how does Goblin Scribe's "summons" interact with the breaking rules? Aren't they just fodder to be killed, speeding the way to breaking the opponent, if the break-point is based on original list, numbers?

As a horde Goblins rule... but a few wandering in on their own should be meat. :-p

The thing is the goblins brought on with the scribe count towards the armies break point.

judgedoug wrote:I have not found that Mirkwood Rangers are that great for their points cost.

In games that I have used them they were good for board control because everyone avoided them and they were survivable with the elven cloaks. If for anything else I could control a table quarter with a unit of 7-10

My wife, myself, and a few SBG players from the NY/CT area got together for a few games yesterday, and besides getting to play on amazing tables designed by Alex Wright (the guy who makes all of the DCHL stuff that you see at Nova, etc...), we got to see a few really fun pieces at work.

For one, I spent on game on the receiving end of a mounted Boromir with Banner, who I thought surely wouldn't be unkillable, what with my Uruk Berserkers thwarting (essentially) the Horn of Gondor. Countless dead bodies later, he just steam-rolled my forces, even when often surrounded by crazy volumes of bodies.

Likewise, I think filed under "slightly under-costed" was a Great Beast in a Mordor list. I'd never seen one in practice, but those instant S6 hits on the charge are so beefy. We mis-played the archers on its back which made them disproporionately valuable, but it was still really good for its points.

Also, as middle-priced heroes go, Thorin and Dualin still seem to get a lot of work done.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
My wife, myself, and a few SBG players from the NY/CT area got together for a few games yesterday, and besides getting to play on amazing tables designed by Alex Wright (the guy who makes all of the DCHL stuff that you see at Nova, etc...), we got to see a few really fun pieces at work.

Wright Wargame Terrain is my #1 favorite terrain guy on the internet. I commissioned him to do the Morannon ~ Black Gate of Mordor last Christmas a gift for my brother and I'm slated to have him make me some Osgiliath buildings and a Corsair ship. My buddy had him do a WMH demo board as well. His prices are super duper reasonable and the terrain is great.

He's an awesome guy too. We had a blast and got hours, and hours of SBG in. :-)

Got any pics? Sounds like there were some awesome games and terrain on show.

I've always found Uruks, Morannons and Dwarf Warriors to be great 'bang for your buck' basic troops, plenty of staying power and in the case of the first two, hitting hard as well. I'll take regular Orcs as chaff/flank guards, but when it comes to the main battle line, S4 all the way!

I also want to shout out to the much-overlooked humble Warrior of Minas Tirith. They're not hilariously undercosted and they don't do anything spectacular, but with a banner and hero they're just very dependable, give them the job of holding the line and they do it admirably!

We only have the one pic, and it wasn't great. We really should've taken more, but we were just really engrossed in the games themselves. :-)

That said, we're slowly building a nice little player base. Anyone who happens to be in the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area and looking for games should drop me a line. Literally every game we play is on a different, professionally crafted, themed table, so we're spoiled for riches. :-p

I might be moving out that way in the near future, if all the planets align and job situations work out. If I do ill hit you guys up for some games