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Well, the new nerf in the FAQ was a bit of shocker! Allies of convenience my bum bum ';(. Because tyrannids needed to be kicked whilst they were down!

While I agree, its an unnecessary nerf, but from a fluff perspective, it sort of makes sense. Its not like the Nids are welcoming those hybrids in with open arms (open mouths, yeah, but arms, not so much), and the genecult is autonomous from the Hive Mind.

I'm sure the main reason was to restrict Nids from telepathy power abuse. After all, you've got your lil Hive Mind.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm sure the main reason was to restrict Nids from telepathy power abuse. After all, you've got your lil Hive Mind.

And with such an amazing powers nids have too.... *sarcasm*

Giving a xenos faction access to a basic book psychic discipline through battle brothers allies is "Abuse"

Giving a faction that has nearly a dozen different battle brother ally factions, and all the psychic powers in the book multiple brand new disciplines just for them is "adding content to the game"

#Powerarmorprivilege

From a fluffy perscpective sure, genecult and nids rarely fight on the same battlefield. Generally cult does it's thing, blows up or survives and the fleet descends and cleans everything and everyone up.

HOWEVER there are plenty of Battle Brothers that are ridiculously unfluffy.

Dark Eldar and Eldar
GK and everyone
SW and everyone
DA and most of the imperium (heretics)
etc

I am sure there are more but idk the point is if Dark Eldar and Eldar can play as battle brothers, why can't the fleet and it's vanguard?

I love Nids - they were my first army. I also love the Genestealer Cult. I've waited since 3rd edition for this day.

So am I sad? Yeah. Am I surprised? No. Battle Brothers *should* be reserved for forces that have fought and trained together. It's about sharing not just a common foe, but a common purpose, and a common way of thinking. Cadians and Ultramarines would be Battle Brothers. Inquisitors and Assassins would be Battle Brothers. It's a bond that should be unique.

The Tyranids are the space-gods to the Cult, but to the Tyranids, the Cult is just food. They're a root seeking water, a small part of a much larger organism. When the Tyranid arrive, the Cult may enjoy the slaughter, the insanity of a Tyranid invasion, and they will likely fight to stop resistance to the Tyranid threat... but they are not equals. The Tyranids won't see them as threats, but they certainly are not part of their structure. They don't have the same goals (consumption for one, expansion for the other), and they don't train together.

Allies of Convenience works perfectly.





....


Except...

Purestrain Genestealers and the Patriarch. I mean COME ON! Those guys are literally part of the Hive Fleet.

the_scotsman wrote:
Giving a xenos faction access to a basic book psychic discipline through battle brothers allies is "Abuse"

Giving a faction that has nearly a dozen different battle brother ally factions, and all the psychic powers in the book multiple brand new disciplines just for them is "adding content to the game"

#Powerarmorprivilege

We used to have biomancy... which was taken away cos "reasons"

 Yarium wrote:

Allies of Convenience works perfectly.

....

Except...

Purestrain Genestealers and the Patriarch. I mean COME ON! Those guys are literally part of the Hive Fleet.

Um, no they aren't? They literally aren't at all. Any purestrain genestealers in a genestealer cult were either part of the first generation to arrive on that ship/planet and could have come from anywhere, or they were born from 4th generation hybrids. The patriarch is merely the genestealer that founded the cult, grown monstrously large to suit its new role.

Nothing in a genestealer cult is directly related to the hive fleet it ends up attracting, except perhaps by coincidence.

I'm usually the first to defend Eldar and Dark Eldar as BBs, because if you have actually read much of their fluff, they are basically the same, just with different lifestyles.
I can also agree that GSC and Nids seem more like AoC than BBs.

However it seems like a weird change game-play wise. Now that the Harlequin codex exists and BBs can no longer deploy in each others transports, I would not have an issue with Eldar & DE being AoC, yet both being BBs with Harlies (cus they are usually the ones that unite the other Eldar in the first place).

I feel like making this change would do 3 things.
1) Give a bit more reason for Harlies to exist. True that it wouldn't change anything about them specifically, but making them the "glue" that brings Eldar and DE together would be fluffy.
2) Make this "blow" to Nids sting a bit less.
3) If Imperials and Chaos are the only armies that get BBs, it makes all the Xenos armies a bit more consistant

-

And while we're at it, let's talk about this too:

 Yarium wrote:
Battle Brothers *should* be reserved for forces that have fought and trained together. It's about sharing not just a common foe, but a common purpose, and a common way of thinking. Cadians and Ultramarines would be Battle Brothers. Inquisitors and Assassins would be Battle Brothers. It's a bond that should be unique.

If training to work together and/or having experience working together is the standard, basically the entire Imperium should be allies of convenience rather than battle brothers. (For what it's worth I do agree that this should be the standard, but I don't think you're applying it correctly).

Why? Because the Imperium in general does not cooperate that well. Space Marines don't train to interact with the Imperial Guard on the level that would allow a random character to lead and mesh perfectly with a squad of guardsmen. Most guardsmen would never get a chance to train with marines period. Marines from different chapters don't even necessarily work well together.

Same with the Ad Mech. Grey Knights, forget it. No one is even supposed to know they exist, how are they doctrinally integrated so well? Ditto for assassins.

The majority of Imperial units probably never get a chance to fight, much less train, alongside all these rare or aloof Imperial factions. And the Imperium is famous for extreme separation of powers among its military forces. Modern military forces encounter difficulties coordinating between service branches, and they're from the same country, under the command of the same government, and actually train together. How are you supposed to work hand-in-glove with transhuman warriors who are their own feudal lords and whom you've never spoken word one to until they arrived in orbit above your planet earlier this morning?

Between extreme variations in doctrines, total lack of prior interaction between these factions, and the fact that I personally think Battle Brothers has helped ruin the game, I don't think anyone at all should be Battle Brothers, with very few exceptions.*


*I agree that Harlequins should be the glue holding Eldar and Dark Eldar together just like the Inquisition should be the glue that holds different Imperial factions together in an army.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Between extreme variations in doctrines, total lack of prior interaction between these factions, and the fact that I personally think Battle Brothers has helped ruin the game, I don't think anyone at all should be Battle Brothers, with very few exceptions.*.

I agree that BBs should be reserved for special cases like Harlequins and Inquisition. I'd say Assassins too, but they don't benefit from most of the BB perks and "feel" more like AoC
Chaos should probably still be BBs, but units that "Hate" each other should be AoC instead. For Example, If I have a Daemon list with Tzeentch, Nurgle and Khorne units, the Tz & Khorne units would be BBs, as woulf the Khorne & Nurgle units. However the Tz & Nurgle units should be AoC since the have "Hatred" towards each other.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

Allies of Convenience works perfectly.

....

Except...

Purestrain Genestealers and the Patriarch. I mean COME ON! Those guys are literally part of the Hive Fleet.

Um, no they aren't? They literally aren't at all. Any purestrain genestealers in a genestealer cult were either part of the first generation to arrive on that ship/planet and could have come from anywhere, or they were born from 4th generation hybrids. The patriarch is merely the genestealer that founded the cult, grown monstrously large to suit its new role.

Nothing in a genestealer cult is directly related to the hive fleet it ends up attracting, except perhaps by coincidence.

Not true. Unless the fluff has changed again. Purestrain Genestealers are normal Genestealers created by the Hive. The Patriarch is simply the oldest Purestrain.

Seems bizarre from a fluff point of view to me.
In terms of game mechanics and balance I've not enough experience to comment but making them BBs would at least allow for a few more interesting Nid combos and unit interactions.

Sadly if you are not imperium....you can get **** yourself on the game xDD

They are all BB when, by lore, is not fair. By other hand imperial guard by lore allied to other races in several ocassions after realiced they "live" better with those races that with imperium (there are human planets and imperial guard allied/worker for even with orks!)

No mention cant play renegade imperial guard.


Really think that the old table of allies was far better

Franarok wrote:
Sadly if you are not imperium....you can get **** yourself on the game xDD

They are all BB when, by lore, is not fair. By other hand imperial guard by lore allied to other races in several ocassions after realiced they "live" better with those races that with imperium (there are human planets and imperial guard allied/worker for even with orks!)

No mention cant play renegade imperial guard.


Really think that the old table of allies was far better

Aside TauDar I agree. But make it so Bb can be done with the same faction so that some (mainly Xenos, in particular Tyranids) aren't screwed when it comes to Battle Forged armies.

A common argument I see cropping up a lot is that the nids would just eat the cultists, hence can't be battle brothers. This I find a problem with.

The Cult is under the guidance of the same hive mind that the nids are under, they are literally the same consciousness and army. If thats not the definition of battle brothers, what is?

Necron overlords have warriors under their control and will order them into harms way intentionally, this is no different than a hive fleet using a cult as expendable front line troops that can be recycled.

Yes they may be sacrificed ultimately but only in the same way guardsmen are used as sacrifices to stall opponents by marines.

Franarok wrote:
Sadly if you are not imperium....you can get **** yourself on the game xDD

They are all BB when, by lore, is not fair. By other hand imperial guard by lore allied to other races in several ocassions after realiced they "live" better with those races that with imperium (there are human planets and imperial guard allied/worker for even with orks!)

No mention cant play renegade imperial guard.


Really think that the old table of allies was far better

I think you need to have a look at the Renegades and Heretics list in IA13. IIRC, they are Guardsmen who can be allies of convenience with Orks and Battle Brothers with Chaos.

I know them, but again we are coming to FW. And not every people or tornaments allow them (sadly)

pretty sure we've seen space marines deploying with Imperial guardsmen to stiffen them in some cases. given the space marines age, training time etc, it's likely they know basic IG doctrine and are occasionally used in a cadre fashion from time to time.

Franarok wrote:
I know them, but again we are coming to FW. And not every people or tornaments allow them (sadly)

Right, but to say GW doesn't support ork mercenary guard or traitor guard is false...

...they do, but some houserules disallow them.

Just do what me and my nid playing friend do:

ignore the rule.

Balance? Does anyone think a single formation of 6+ armor saves and zero options is going to be format changing? Or literally do anything?

Who cares if its not official or tournament sanctioned because nobody is ever going to use Genestealer Cult allies in a tournament :( Thats just how it is.