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Hello everyone,

I'm a little confused about the Iron Cage, has the fluff been changed? For all I knew it was a victory for the Iron Warriors despite being driven off the world due to the arrival of the Ultramarines, with the Imperial Fists almost being wiped out. I recently read about it on the Wiki again and there it was a stalemate between IW and IF with almost equal casualties and ultimately a defeat for the IW.

So was there a change? Were there always two versions? Which one is canon?

Cheers

If so, that's definitely a retcon. It was basically the IFs being ground into the dust, Dorn calling Perturabo a coward while his men were obliterated, and the Boys In Blue arriving to bail them out while Perturabo and the IWs rode off into the sunset flipping Dorn the bird and pissing on the corpses of his men. That's the only version I know of, but wouldn't doubt a retcon to make the Imperium not seem weak. however, seeing as most fluff is basically Imperium propaganda anyways, any "new" version is essentially just that: The Imperial version of the story to make it seem like the IWs didn't make a fool out of Rogal Dorn.

Rest assured that Dorn's lapdogs were crushed without a shadow of a doubt, no matter the lies they tell themselves to pretend it didn't happen.

Perturabo achieved daemonhood as a direct result of it so I don't see how any retcon could possibly spin it into an IW defeat without changing that part of the outcome.

Anyone can edit a wiki, and some wikis have laxer standards and criteria than others. The 40k wiki is not the most strict one out there, to say the least.

In any case, as far as I'm concerned official sources provide divergent accounts about the Iron Cage. Personally I consider it an undeniable victory for the Iron Warriors.

Thanks guys. So victory for IW, IF almost wiped out. Is this version widely considered canon or just your opinion?

It was definitely the Iron Warriors winning - the Ultramarines came in to save them. Whether they'd have taken enough iron warriors with them to make it a pyrrhic victory for the Iron Warriors if they hadn't done is open to question.

Certainly the statement "Another argument claims that the Iron Warriors simply lacked the determination to make the sacrifices necessary to completely eliminate the Imperial Fists" completely flies in the face of Peturabo's character as shown in the Horus Heresy; the Iron Warriors are the very definition of an attrition legion, and he is quite prepared to expend whatever manpower he needs to win a battle.

It was a victory for the IW but the Index Astartes articles give conflicting accounts of the way it went down. Here's the quotes and the links to the articles

Iron Warrriors http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_iw.html

If Perturabo had a failing it was that he had grown to eniov tormenting his enemies too much. He could have finished off the Imperial Fists at any time but chose not to. Fortunately for Rogal Dorn, Roboute Guilliman put the Impcnum before pride and had brought the Ultramarines to the rescue. The powerful Ultramarine fleet forced the Iron Warriors back while their hunderhawks plunged through the dust clouds to evacuate the Imperial Fists. Perturabo had no desire to fight two Chapters and concentrated on preventing the Imperial Fists evacuating their dead and wounded.

Imperial Fists http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_if.html

Ammunition expended, Brothers fought in half-flooded trenches with combat knives, giving and expecting no quarter. Eventually it became apparent that the Iron Warriors could not finish them. For all their skill and ferocity, the Iron Warriors lacked the faith to make the ultimate sacrifice that victory demanded. While they paused, the Ultramarines intervened; Guilliman had decided that Perturabo's destruction was not worth the loss of Rogal Dorn and had brought his Chapter to drive off the Iron Warriors.

There might be more given in the FW Heresy books but I haven't read all of those.

So basically Perturabo was toying with Dorn because he hated his guts, and as a result didn't get to finish them off because Guilly and Co showed up.

WayneTheGame wrote:
So basically Perturabo was toying with Dorn because he hated his guts, and as a result didn't get to finish them off because Guilly and Co showed up.

Pretty much ... but it's hard for an IF fan to admit that. An IF fan might say that Perturabo was a coward for not coming down and finishing off Dorn himself or that despite the best of the IW and their superiority they still weren't able to get the job done. The IW would have won though eventually, I don't think there is any doubt about that. It was a sound trap and without the UMs arrival Dorn and the Fists aren't likely to have survived.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
It was a victory for the IW but the Index Astartes articles give conflicting accounts of the way it went down. Here's the quotes and the links to the articles

Iron Warrriors http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_iw.html

If Perturabo had a failing it was that he had grown to eniov tormenting his enemies too much. He could have finished off the Imperial Fists at any time but chose not to. Fortunately for Rogal Dorn, Roboute Guilliman put the Impcnum before pride and had brought the Ultramarines to the rescue. The powerful Ultramarine fleet forced the Iron Warriors back while their hunderhawks plunged through the dust clouds to evacuate the Imperial Fists. Perturabo had no desire to fight two Chapters and concentrated on preventing the Imperial Fists evacuating their dead and wounded.

Imperial Fists http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_if.html

Ammunition expended, Brothers fought in half-flooded trenches with combat knives, giving and expecting no quarter. Eventually it became apparent that the Iron Warriors could not finish them. For all their skill and ferocity, the Iron Warriors lacked the faith to make the ultimate sacrifice that victory demanded. While they paused, the Ultramarines intervened; Guilliman had decided that Perturabo's destruction was not worth the loss of Rogal Dorn and had brought his Chapter to drive off the Iron Warriors.

There might be more given in the FW Heresy books but I haven't read all of those.

To be honest the IF version sounds a lot like propaganda and smells of plot armor. Well the UMs showing up does too but not as much xD
So it's fair to say there's a consensus, except for IF fans, the other version is closer to reality?

I always saw it as a clear IW victory - the Fists would not have survived longer, and the Ultras had to distract the IW enough to evacuate the IF.