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For an upcoming tournament, I’m thinking of taking something a lil different to my standard Eldar fare.

The tournament format has a composition element, based on certain units and combinations being ‘taxed’ where others may not be. This format encourages thinking outside of standard net-lists, as those are typically taxed the highest.

So my army revolves around a Wraithblade Deathstar, within a Wraithost, within a winderider host. The unit itself is composed of;

Eldrad, Farseer w/ jetbike, Spiritseer, Baharroth and 10 Ghostaxe Wraithblades.

Invisibility is taxed very highly. I won’t get into details, but I wont be using it.

Eldrad rolls for Fortune, with the Farseer doing so too if he fails. Spiritseer usually looks for Protect, unless I’m facing a large amount of Plasma, in which case be may roll on Santic looking for Sanctuary.

The unit itself is 30 Str 7 Ap2 attacks on the charge. Rerolling misses with the spiritseer (formation bonus). Plus the farseers and baharroth.

Eldrad gives scout, and with the blades being part of the windrider host, they get a 6’’ run. So 18’’ movement on turn 1.

The rest of the list writes itself from the formation.
2x4 jetbikes, 6 jetbikes (5 total scatter lasers), a vyper, 2x5 Wraithguard with cannons, a Wraithknight with cannons, and a Wraithlord with scatter lasers and flamers. Obligatory solo warlock too.

I’ve got some further options too. Baharroth means that Gate can be used. I’m likely to end up with doom/shriek/and a smattering of other powers.

Does this ‘deathstar’ have potential? I’ve loaded up on Str D, as anything with stomp/battlecannons may ruin my plans. I can always scout/battlefocus wraithguard for a 30’’ threat range turn 1. Wraithknight solves problems, while the wraithlord/jetbikes/solo-lock are my scoring.

The only issue I see would be if you don't get all the powers you need or fail to cast them. Also i don't know if your guard are in serpents or not but if they aren't then that can pose an issue and if they are depending on how the FAQ stands for said tournament I'd invest on holofields so i don't have to jink and then subsequently snap fire when they get out.

No, they're on foot.

So while they are vulnerable, they do have some good movement - leaving me the option of hiding them behind LOS at deployment.

Missing out on Fortune would hurt quite a bit. BUT - the unit is T6 with 21 wounds - and will have Baharroth to tank up front with his 2+/4++.

Should I roll up fortune, It will get cast. 6 dice (which would be the minimum amount i'd use for such a clutch power) is a 90% success rate. Coupled with runes of the farseer for a re-roll, that's 99%+ chance of success.

How many points is that unit?

 axisofentropy wrote:
How many points is that unit?

785 of 2,000 for the entire army.

Ally in some de. Fast cheap transports to get you upfield - them they go boom and get you closer. And t6 means not caring so much about the wreck, and fearless .... "What's pinning?" Deploy in cover and 1st turn 12" move+ 18" flat out. Next turn disembark in enemy's face. Plus, character + wwp + wraith unit = no scatter fun. Also DE have imho some of the best fliers in the game for pure firepower. The bomber is awsome with great missiles and bomb for ground control and str 9 lance for anti air duty. And if you need a "less popular" unit for "tax" - 5 warriors + blaster in venom. A veritable ton of shooting, and it's dirt cheap. In new edition venomspam got a bit nerfed but it's still a strong unit. And it forces the other guy to deal with them. If not - they can lay down a hurting (16-20 poison shots/turn + blaster)
And if they draw fire early then it just takes shots away from stronger more valuable units.

The problem here is that Wraithblades are arguably the worst unit in the codex. In my experience they just die without delivering any kind of hitting power in return due to WS4, A1 and unwieldy. They will never make their points back.

Belly wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
How many points is that unit?

785 of 2,000 for the entire army.

Are they really better than a Seer Council?

Caedes wrote:Ally in some de. Fast cheap transports to get you upfield

Wraithguard are bulky so only five fit within a Raider. Using a webway portal is still a good idea tho.

The unit is cheaper and more durable than Seer Council by far. It is also much more killy in CC, however it is much, much slower.

I wouldn't use a full 10-man unit. That is overkill. You are better off with 7 or 8. Saves some points but keeps the body-guard number high enough.
You have to keep I mind that the units that will be effected the most by "30 str7 ap2 Attacks" are not the units that will ever experience those attacks...because you are too slow to charge them. They will charge you.

I would give more advice, but without knowing the details of this very heavily comp'ed event, I don't know if any of it is useful.

Belly wrote:

The unit itself is 30 Str 7 Ap2 attacks on the charge.

No they don't. Wraithblades have 1 attack. They do not have two weapons when you give them axes.

You have a whopping 10 attacks when you get charged, which is actually what is going to happen.

My method to get the Wraithstar to charge has been to add that Corsair Dreamer fellow instead of a Spiritseer. (Another detachment, sure) There are a couple powers on Aethermancy (is that it?) that can make closing into combat MUCH easier.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Belly wrote:

The unit itself is 30 Str 7 Ap2 attacks on the charge.

No they don't. Wraithblades have 1 attack. They do not have two weapons when you give them axes.

You have a whopping 10 attacks when you get charged, which is actually what is going to happen.

WraithBlades have Rage, so if the charge, a unit of 10 will have 30 atx. But the point still stands that they will almost never get the charge (on anything they want to charge anyway)

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Belly wrote:

The unit itself is 30 Str 7 Ap2 attacks on the charge.

No they don't. Wraithblades have 1 attack. They do not have two weapons when you give them axes.

You have a whopping 10 attacks when you get charged, which is actually what is going to happen.

Wraithblades have rage, which is 30 attacks on the charge.

10 str 7 ap 2 attacks, rerolling with the spiritseer. Then Eldrad, farseer/spiritseer + baharroth. (not terrible). He charges me, I cause a few casualties and the majority of his attacks bounce due to T6 and 4++ with fortune. I H&R. Suddenly 30 attacks. Did I really have to explain how that works?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Imateria wrote:
The problem here is that Wraithblades are arguably the worst unit in the codex. In my experience they just die without delivering any kind of hitting power in return due to WS4, A1 and unwieldy. They will never make their points back.

Few things

WS4 - The spiritseer gives them rerolls to hit. Problem solved.
A1 - They have rage (for two extra attacks on the charge), and H&R to actually make that happen.
Unwieldly is annoying, but the chances of losing a bunch of them before they strike isn't too much of an issue. T6/rerollable 4++.

Uh my exp wraith blades do awsome against anything t6 or lower that's not rocking a strong invun. Decent init, high toughness and a 4++ makes them pretty durable. I like open topped transports because move, disembark, charge. Instead of portal in, then sit a turn to get shot and have other guy run away. Yea the raider only holds 5, but 2 seperate units of blades on 2 raiders unloading into enemy lines is pretty fun. And don't forget you have a wraith lord in the formation as well. He can pack a decent punch as well, and is a great anvil.

I've had good success with using them as a deathstar, anecdotal evidence it maybe but I came in 3rd at one of my local tourneys because of them. That said, they get into trouble when a culexus assassin is on the field, their native high toughness makes very compatible for character bodyguards.

Running a full unit 10 with Ghost axes and Force shields makes them AP2/ S7/ 4+ Invul

I then add 2 Farseers, Baharroth and Eldrad (2 CADs) and have Eldrad and a farseer roll on Sanitc powers. Hammerhand, Gate of Infinity and Sanctuary are all great (Gate is critical because of Baharroth removing the chance for them to scatter and gives them the mobility they need)

If I've got the powers I need from santic I then roll my last few powers of Runes of Fate and fish for Fortune or telepathy for invis

I've also tried allying Lelith Hesperax into the mix for S5/ no armour save allowed hoard clearance.

The wraithguard's rage in combination with hit and run is great but then that's just me .

^Lelith is S3.

I'm assuming he's counting in hammerhand.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm assuming he's counting in hammerhand.

Yes I am

 Galef wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Belly wrote:

The unit itself is 30 Str 7 Ap2 attacks on the charge.

No they don't. Wraithblades have 1 attack. They do not have two weapons when you give them axes.

You have a whopping 10 attacks when you get charged, which is actually what is going to happen.

WraithBlades have Rage, so if the charge, a unit of 10 will have 30 atx. But the point still stands that they will almost never get the charge (on anything they want to charge anyway)

Indeed. Slow assault units aren't worth sinking points into . Slow assault units that rely on rolling random psychic powers to be effective doubly so.
For assault units, a base 12" move or don't bother.

You can talk about their close combat abilities all day, but nothing is going to stop a unit of grav cents or a bike unit from killing them at range while they plod along at 6" a turn. And counting on santic to boost said abilities isn't great either; almost any army that wants to fight you in CC (daemons, GK, Thunderwolves) will have enough dice to ensure that you're always saving a warp charge dice for the perils (assuming your psyker has the stone, cause you peril on every doubles) or casting for only as many wounds as your psyker has.

Common logic is to chop the shooty stuff, and shoot the choppy stuff. You have a giant, expensive, slow unit of choppy stuff. It's going to get shot at. TH/SS terminators are better at what you're trying to do with your wraithblades; yet know one takes TH/SS deathstars despite them having innate deepstrike precisely because they're slow.

I dunno, if I wanted to use Wraithblades, I'd probably just ally in Raiders and propel them at the enemy ASAP. Even without characters, on the charge it is 15 AP2 attacks on the charge. Even just half of those hitting is basically 5-6 dead models.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I dunno, if I wanted to use Wraithblades, I'd probably just ally in Raiders and propel them at the enemy ASAP. Even without characters, on the charge it is 15 AP2 attacks on the charge. Even just half of those hitting is basically 5-6 dead models.

Or 1 wound off an Iron Hand.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I dunno, if I wanted to use Wraithblades, I'd probably just ally in Raiders and propel them at the enemy ASAP. Even without characters, on the charge it is 15 AP2 attacks on the charge. Even just half of those hitting is basically 5-6 dead models.

Or 1 wound off an Iron Hand.

How does that turn into one wound?

If you going wraith infantry you need DE transports or you wil lose. I think you need open topped assault vehicles to use wraithblade. If you are going on foot please take Jain Zarr as warlord as part of a windrider battleforce host. But to be honest you need an assault vehicle.

The twinned hull one from forge world is the best.

Slightly hard to do but then get 5 wraithguard with dscythes to absorb the charge for you. You deliberately put the 5D3 wall of death shots. Hard to do but means you'll charge.

Trouble is you'll only charge one unit. But I digress.

Ideally these wraithguard should *also* be in open topped so they can shoot their dScythes on a drive by. But I digress.

Good look hatching your plan! I'd be interested in how it worked out.

Happy gaming!

EldarArmy wrote:
If you going wraith infantry you need DE transports or you wil lose. I think you need open topped assault vehicles to use wraithblade. If you are going on foot please take Jain Zarr as warlord as part of a windrider battleforce host. But to be honest you need an assault vehicle.

The twinned hull one from forge world is the best.

Slightly hard to do but then get 5 wraithguard with dscythes to absorb the charge for you. You deliberately put the 5D3 wall of death shots. Hard to do but means you'll charge.

Trouble is you'll only charge one unit. But I digress.

Ideally these wraithguard should *also* be in open topped so they can shoot their dScythes on a drive by. But I digress.

Good look hatching your plan! I'd be interested in how it worked out.

Happy gaming!

The OP said WrathBLADES not WraithGUARD, different unit. And the Tantalus is not a good choice, it's 200+pts for a really big open topped transport that isn't a super heavy so can easily be one-shotted.

They also get battle focus when taken as part of the wraith thingy of the aspect host dont they? Does that mean they also benefit from the guaranteed 6 inch run move to basically make them 12 inch cavalry (almost)

Yep - they Move 6", run 6" in the warhost - they even get a bonus to this from baharroths warlord trait

Battle Focus doesn't do anything for Wraithblades really, any unit can move move and run (without being able to assault of course).
Battle Focus allows shooty units to run and shoot.

If Battle Focus gave Wraithblades move+run+assault (with fleet), then they might be worth considering.

Bartali wrote:
Battle Focus doesn't do anything for Wraithblades really, any unit can move move and run (without being able to assault of course).
Battle Focus allows shooty units to run and shoot.

He's right, battlefocus really doesn't help the Wraithblades... but works amazingly with the Wraithguard with their effective wraithcannon range being 24-30" and 21-27" range with the D-Scythe (Wave Serpent move (optional)+ Move+ Run + range) and an ungodly 36-40" and 33-39" when you combine Eldrad's Scout move...

Off topic I know but kinda bonkers when you think about it.