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I don't know how many people have picked up/are planning to pick up the new Death from the skies supplement. I got a copy to see what all the fuss was about and wrote up some reviews of it on my blog. The different sections are:

Part 1- Flyer rules and flyer wings http://standwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/death-from-skies-supplement-review-part.html
Part 2- The Dogfight Phase http://standwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/death-from-skies-supplement-review-part.html
Part 3- New flyers and formations http://standwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/death-from-skies-supplement-review-part_2.html
Part 4- Air war scenarios http://standwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/death-from-skies-supplement-review-part_3.html

My views on it are a bit mixed. I like the new Stormhawk flyer. I think it is a great looking kit and has some good rules to make it a different choice from the Stormtalon.

The Dogfight phase will be brilliant if you have a Fighter flyer and help you significantly in taking out enemy flyers and possibly hindering your opponent's reserves, but I don't see it being used too often.

I actually like a lot of the scenarios presented. Some of them seem like a lot of fun and a different way to play 40k compared to the standard eternal war and maelstrom missions. I hope to try them out soon.

Anyone else picked up the book yet? What are your thoughts on it?

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of the dog fight phase.

You get one attempt per turn to attack an enemy and they get the opportunity to break away or to turn you so they aren't in your weapon arcs.

Often the result of the dog fight phase is that nothing happens.

The rest of the book is okay but the dogfight phase is too much mucking about for little result.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of the dog fight phase.

You get one attempt per turn to attack an enemy and they get the opportunity to break away or to turn you so they aren't in your weapon arcs.

Often the result of the dog fight phase is that nothing happens.

The rest of the book is okay but the dogfight phase is too much mucking about for little result.

The way I see it, if you take a Fighter and your opponent has only an Attack Flyer or Bomber, you have at least 3 opportunities to try and take them down (one at the start of each player's first turn and at least one before the start of the second turn). As a fighter, unless you are flying head on or being tailed, you will be firing at full ballistic skill, so will have a good shot at taking out the enemy flyer, especially if they were unable to jink.

For example, the new Stormhawk will be agility 4 and pursuit 4 in a dogfight, it will be impossible for your opponent to turn you 180 degrees in the manoeuvre subphase (you need an agility 2 higher to force a 180 turn and the maximum agility at the moment is 5). This means you have a good chance of firing at full ballistic skill if you can turn your opponent (or take the skyfire weapon). I'm not saying its going to work all the time, but it could be useful.

I run a lot of bike armies, either Ravenwing or White Scars. I detest Heldrakes as they are built to take out bikers. If I can take a fighter and have up to 3 shots of taking out the heldrake before it gets a chance to move in the board, I am going to seize that chance. Plus, it's one of the few chances you get to shoot at your opponent in their own turn, outside of Interceptor weapons.

I don't see Dogfights being used too often, but they will come in handy at times.

Let's say you're 4/4 and your target is 2/2.

Engage - 3/9 of winning, 3/9 of rolling off where you win 26/32
Maneouver -3/9 of winning, 3/9 of rolling off where you win 26/32

You must win both of those sub phases or your opponent either disengages or turns you 90degrees so your weapons are out of arc.

That's a 36% chance of getting to attack (I did not include the 1/9 chance of of getting an extra die, in reality you'll never get that since the defender will never select Dive (both other options are better for him))

Of course, your opponent doesn't want to dogfight so you've only got an 18% chance of getting a single attack and most fighers cannot reliably kill another flyer in a single attack.

It's a lot of hassle for a knocking off a hull point or two. Not what I would describe as "significant". The reserve modifiers are much more significant.

EDITED because I assumed corrm was right about start of each player turn but it turns out that start of each game turn was right.

 corrm wrote:


The way I see it, if you take a Fighter and your opponent has only an Attack Flyer or Bomber, you have at least 3 opportunities to try and take them down (one at the start of each player's first turn and at least one before the start of the second turn).

The dogfight phase happens once per game turn, not player turn. So you will likely only have 2 phases most games unless both player fail reserve roles, or re-enter reserves on the same turn.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Let's say you're 4/4 and your target is 2/2.

Engage - 3/9 of winning, 3/9 of rolling off where you win 26/32
Maneouver -3/9 of winning, 3/9 of rolling off where you win 26/32

You must win both of those sub phases or your opponent either disengages or turns you 90degrees so your weapons are out of arc.

That's a 36% chance of getting to attack (I did not include the 1/9 chance of of getting an extra die, in reality you'll never get that since the defender will never select Dive (both other options are better for him))

On the opponents turn there's only a 50% chance that a dogfight happens.

That means in the first three player turns you have a 91% chance of getting a single attack and most fighers cannot reliably kill another flyer in a single attack.

It's a lot of hassle for a knocking off a hull point or two. Not what I would describe as "significant". The reserve modifiers are much more significant.

OH my head hurts reading that. That doesn't sound like fun at all. Where is the fun?

I feel that Death From the Skies is a ploy to get us to buy more Flyer models, which I would otherwise have no reason to do as a Tau player.

Davor wrote:
OH my head hurts reading that. That doesn't sound like fun at all. Where is the fun?

Exactly, you've got three sub phases to work through: two of which you MUST win and one that's kinda pointless and only a 50/50 of even getting to try if your opponent doesn't want to. That adds up to a ~1/6 chance of actually getting to shoot assuming that you have much better stats. If your stats are similar then you've got very little chance of getting to shoot.

Assuming you get to shoot what are the odds of killing the enemy?

Most of the time there is no result from the dogfight phase.