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P. 196 indicates that models with special issue ammunition (i.e., sternguard special issue ammunition) "can choose, in each of their Shooting phases, to instead use one of the profiles below until the beginning of their next shooting phase."

If I use hellfire ammunition during my shooting phase on my turn, may I use, e.g., kraken rounds during my opponent's phase?

What if I don't fire with my sternguard during my shooting phase on my turn?

I'm assuming, for all rules intents and purposes, that overwatch constitutes a separate shooting phase, over and beyond the shooting phase on my turn?

That's the way that I've been playing it, but today a spectator called it into question.

You've been playing it as I have. Overwatch is a different thing and so you can pick what ammo you use.

In all my games I've never been questioned on this and was in fact told to do this by some of my friends back when I was creating the army

Does anyone know whether GW was asked this question when FAQ questions were being submitted?

I don't believe it's ever been FAQ'ed as I think it's reasonably clear:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves, and so on."

As it's a nornal shooting attack, sternguard shoot as they normally would with which-ever ammo you like.

I reckon you're pretty safe with your use of the rule

The further question that was baking my noodle involved special ammo and the Imperial Fists Bolter Drill doctrine but that was FAQ'ed

 Wulfmar wrote:
I don't believe it's ever been FAQ'ed as I think it's reasonably clear:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves, and so on."

As it's a nornal shooting attack, sternguard shoot as they normally would with which-ever ammo you like.

I reckon you're pretty safe with your use of the rule

The further question that was baking my noodle involved special ammo and the Imperial Fists Bolter Drill doctrine but that was FAQ'ed

The problem I'm having is that p. 196 of the codex doesn't say "shooting attack." It says "shooting phase." Does overwatch constitute a special shooting phase?

Also, the imperial fists bolter drill thing isn't really in need of FAQ. It's explicitly mentioned in the codex. See p. 190: "This rule also applies to models firing hellfire, kraken, vengeance or dragonfire rounds."

 Traditio wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
I don't believe it's ever been FAQ'ed as I think it's reasonably clear:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves, and so on."

As it's a nornal shooting attack, sternguard shoot as they normally would with which-ever ammo you like.

I reckon you're pretty safe with your use of the rule

The further question that was baking my noodle involved special ammo and the Imperial Fists Bolter Drill doctrine but that was FAQ'ed

The problem I'm having is that p. 196 of the codex doesn't say "shooting attack." It says "shooting phase." Does overwatch constitute a special shooting phase?

Also, the imperial fists bolter drill thing isn't really in need of FAQ. It's explicitly mentioned in the codex. See p. 190: "This rule also applies to models firing hellfire, kraken, vengeance or dragonfire rounds."

I expect it's a typo, as you have no shooting phase in an opponents turn. They have their own shooting phase, but following the RAW that would mean you shoot your overwatch in the opponents shooting phase before the assault phase.

I mean, I guess you can call it a mini shooting phase for you, but technical it's in the opponents assault phase

Aye the Fists were FAQ'ED and then he rule clarified in the current codex. It drove me to distraction for a year though

P. 63 of the 5th edition codex reads: "Each boltgun-armed model in a Sternguard Veteran squad automatically comes with several ammunition types. Each time a Sternguard veteran squad fires, the controlling player can choose which type of ammunition is being used..."

P. 125 of the 6th edition codex reads: "...models with special issue ammunition can choose, in each of their shooting phases, to instead use one of the profiles below until the beginning of their next shooting phase..."

P. 196 of the 7th edition codex reads:"can choose, in each of their Shooting phases, to instead use one of the profiles below until the beginning of their next shooting phase."

There really are two ways to read this:

Way 1: During your shooting phase, you have to declare which rounds you are using. You then must use the same rounds during overwatch in your opponent's turn. You may then select a different ammunition type on your own turn.

You didn't opt to use special ammunion on your shooting phase? Too bad. The key word is "can." Regular bolters during overwatch. Choose more wisely during your next shooting phase.

Why? Because "your shooting phase" occurs on your turn, and not on your opponents. GW's change of wording from 5th to 6th edition was intentional to avoid the use of different ammo types during overwatch.

Way 2: You have an additional shooting phase during your opponent's assault phase, namely, in which your overwatch shooting occurs.

Do you see the problem?

I very much hope that GW covers this in the FAQs.

I read it to mean that the choice can only be made in the shooting phase of the sternguard's controlling player. As you've pointed out, the rules were specifically re-written to include the word "their" and then goes on to specify how long that lasts for.

Traditio, I think your way 1 is the intended way for it to be used.

They change their ammo in their bolters to what they feel is suitable for their target. Overwatch is a reaction to being charged whicvh will not give them time to make choices.

I think it is a reasonably clear no, you pick in your shooting phase, for overwatch you get to make an out of sequence shooting attack, this doesn't mean it is a shooting phase.

You use whatever ammo you chose in your shooting phase, so even if you can't shoot with them be sure to pick an ammo type anyway just in case or you are shooting regular rounds.

I've always played it as "Choose which type of round each time the squad fires." My opponents have never had an issue with it, and every other Sternguard player I know has done it.

However, I've never wanted to switch between types - any situation this has happened, I would have always wanted the same round. So it's not quite accurate.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've always played it as "Choose which type of round each time the squad fires." My opponents have never had an issue with it, and every other Sternguard player I know has done it.

However, I've never wanted to switch between types - any situation this has happened, I would have always wanted the same round. So it's not quite accurate.

How do you understand the text from p.196 that I quoted?

I very much want your opinion to be the correct one, since that's how I've played it, and I'm hoping GW erratas it in the FAQs.

But it does currently say "until their next shooting phase." I don't see any real way around that.

 Traditio wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've always played it as "Choose which type of round each time the squad fires." My opponents have never had an issue with it, and every other Sternguard player I know has done it.

However, I've never wanted to switch between types - any situation this has happened, I would have always wanted the same round. So it's not quite accurate.

How do you understand the text from p.196 that I quoted?

I very much want your opinion to be the correct one, since that's how I've played it, and I'm hoping GW erratas it in the FAQs.

But it does currently say "until their next shooting phase." I don't see any real way around that.

As I said - my opponents agreed with this interpretation. If my opponent didn't, I'd either agree, or ask my TO.
However, in my experience, I've never wanted to change round type between Shooting Phase and Overwatch, so this is redundant for me.

I'll have to agree with Smudge, I've always played it as "choose a type of round each time the squad fires". Is this necessarily the right interpretation? Maybe not. But it's what makes sense to me, and nobody I've played with has ever really had an issue with it. Then again, also as Smudge said, I typically don't switch rounds from my shooting phase when I'm being charged, as I'm typically being charged by the same type of unit that I fired at previously

I'm no SM player but I've got the codex and it clearly says you choose an ammunition type to use "until the beginning of their next shooting phase", deciding to change ammo types when you Overwatch is breaking this rule for your own benefit to the detriment of your opponent. It's not an ambiguous rule like many others out there, but with how some of these FAQs have been coming out it may well be pseudo-errata'd and re-written.

And all the units which have the ability to fire multiple Weapons usually have it only available in the Shooting Phase.

The Draft FAQ indicates that this is not limited to the Shooting Phase, but to when the unit makes a Shooting Attack.

Do we cross correlate this?

 Charistoph wrote:
And all the units which have the ability to fire multiple Weapons usually have it only available in the Shooting Phase.

The Draft FAQ indicates that this is not limited to the Shooting Phase, but to when the unit makes a Shooting Attack.

Do we cross correlate this?

No as the FAQ is subject to change so they might reverse that.

pm713 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
And all the units which have the ability to fire multiple Weapons usually have it only available in the Shooting Phase.

The Draft FAQ indicates that this is not limited to the Shooting Phase, but to when the unit makes a Shooting Attack.

Do we cross correlate this?

No as the FAQ is subject to change so they might reverse that.

Admittedly. But dismissing the thought because it is currently temporary is rather not the point of the question. I was asking you consider it in the light that it does go live in concept.

 Charistoph wrote:
And all the units which have the ability to fire multiple Weapons usually have it only available in the Shooting Phase.

The Draft FAQ indicates that this is not limited to the Shooting Phase, but to when the unit makes a Shooting Attack.

Do we cross correlate this?

My previous reply was considering the rules for special ammunition as they appear in the codex currently, if the precedent has been set in some of the FAQs that such things apply for shooting attacks rather than phases then this one may indeed also change in the near future. I do think, however, that with the inconsistency that GW writes rules it's difficult to assume that because one rule has changed that another similar rule will also change in the same way.

I would agree though that thematically it makes sense to be able to choose which type of ammunition you want to use each time you make a separate shooting attack, even if the rules currently don't reflect that.

xlDuke wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
And all the units which have the ability to fire multiple Weapons usually have it only available in the Shooting Phase.

The Draft FAQ indicates that this is not limited to the Shooting Phase, but to when the unit makes a Shooting Attack.

Do we cross correlate this?

My previous reply was considering the rules for special ammunition as they appear in the codex currently, if the precedent has been set in some of the FAQs that such things apply for shooting attacks rather than phases then this one may indeed also change in the near future. I do think, however, that with the inconsistency that GW writes rules it's difficult to assume that because one rule has changed that another similar rule will also change in the same way.

I would agree though that thematically it makes sense to be able to choose which type of ammunition you want to use each time you make a separate shooting attack, even if the rules currently don't reflect that.

There is a slighty similar precedent with salvo weapons and overwatch in the FAQ.

Q: How many shots do Salvo weapons get when firing Snap Shots in Overwatch, if the unit moved in their previous player turn?
A: When determining if the unit moved for the purposes of firing Salvo weapons, only the previous Movement phase is considered. In the case of firing Overwatch, this will have been your opponent’s Movement phase, and therefore the unit firing Overwatch is very unlikely to have moved. As a consequence, it counts as having not moved, and can fire the higher number of shots with its weapons that have the Salvo type.

Seems to make a precedent to consider the next shooting phase it's in your opponent turn.

Lord Perversor wrote:
There is a slighty similar precedent with salvo weapons and overwatch in the FAQ.

Q: How many shots do Salvo weapons get when firing Snap Shots in Overwatch, if the unit moved in their previous player turn?
A: When determining if the unit moved for the purposes of firing Salvo weapons, only the previous Movement phase is considered. In the case of firing Overwatch, this will have been your opponent’s Movement phase, and therefore the unit firing Overwatch is very unlikely to have moved. As a consequence, it counts as having not moved, and can fire the higher number of shots with its weapons that have the Salvo type.

Seems to make a precedent to consider the next shooting phase it's in your opponent turn.

Not quite. There is a difference between "their next shooting phase" and "previous movement phase". Special Ammo states a possession of a phase while Salvo which does not have a possessor.

Tail end of this conversation, sorry but quick question:

Is special ammo only for a boltgun/boltpistol? Or can you give Sternguard Stormbolters are still use the special ammo?

Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also since they are doing the SM FAQ request now, maybe the OP question should go up on the FB page.

It states it quite clearly in the first non-italicized sentence of Special Issue Ammunition what it works with.