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Made in gb
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch





Got back into 40k about 4 months ago. So i played a 2k game against Tau recently. Usually with this list i am ok, as i run the 20man cheap blob up the field using the crimson slaughter FNP formation rule from the apostle to make it a scary distraction unit. Other units then sieze objectives and win; my weakness has been no transport vehicles which i plan to turn around soon. Any way yesterday he placed this huge f*cking thing on the table called a supremacy battlesuit. If you dont know the rules [ :https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Tau-Kx139-Ta%E2%80%99unar.pdf . ]

After he showed me its stats, i realised that i would never kill i, so focused on taking objectives and attempted to kill other units. I was soon getting tabled and lost horribly. How can a unit be this good at 600 points. to counter it with chaos, you would need to build a list around killing it? i just want peoples opinions on the unit; i also realise my list is far from ideal, but im not sure how a fluffy chaos list can realiably compete with this. Many thanks heres my army for 2k points :

PRIMARY
Chaos lord-(165)
blade of the relentless, sigil, slaughterers horns, daemonheart

Dark Apostle-(105)
power mace, sigil

20 csm (270)
bolters

10 csm (140)
ccw and bolt pistols

5 possessed (130)

6 terminators (254)
3 fists, 3 axes, 2combi m, 1combi flamer
6 mot

3 orblits (228)
3 marks of n

predator (95)
h bolters, auto cannon

predator (140)
tl lascannon, 2 lascannons


ALLIES
Daemon prince (270)
wings, armour, mot, 2 mstry levels

20 bloodletters (200)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/04 14:15:25


 
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




I think there is a new Black Legion formation called the Cyclopia Cabal. You should be able to actually steal his suit and shoot with it like it was yours. Otherwise, I think you will need to abuse broken mechanics like Invisible Death Stars. Stomp is a great counter, so it's still not going to be easy.

Truth be told that Tau unit does not belong in fluffy games with normal 40k units. It's meant for big Apoc-style games with D-weapons all over the map. You can definitely play it as an intentional challenge to yourself, but I wouldn't necessarily do it for a fun chill game. It's broken against a lot of armies.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User







I have to confess this made me giggle.

But yeah cabal is a perfect answer.

Although tbh he should really have asked your permission, especially for a casual game. It's the same with bringing any thing like a Revenant or any unit/combination that's incredibly powerful. Not really fair unless both players agree or have their lists at a similar suitable power level.
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

1. Yeah use cabal's power take control of the thing and shoot all its one-time use D-missiles at his Riptides.... pretty hilarious

2. Belakor should be able to handle it in CC and some shrieks.

3. Summon some daemons or use whatever sacrificial unit to tie it up in combat.

4. Your CSM list is very not optimal and will have trouble pretty much against any decent armies.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 SonsofVulkan wrote:
1. Yeah use cabal's power take control of the thing and shoot all its one-time use D-missiles at his Riptides.... pretty hilarious

2. Belakor should be able to handle it in CC and some shrieks.

3. Summon some daemons or use whatever sacrificial unit to tie it up in combat.

4. Your CSM list is very not optimal and will have trouble pretty much against any decent armies.


One time D-missiles are a Stormsurge weapon. You're thinking of the wrong GMC, Stormsurges are far more manageable and fairly-costed than the Supremacy suits

   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
 SonsofVulkan wrote:
1. Yeah use cabal's power take control of the thing and shoot all its one-time use D-missiles at his Riptides.... pretty hilarious

2. Belakor should be able to handle it in CC and some shrieks.

3. Summon some daemons or use whatever sacrificial unit to tie it up in combat.

4. Your CSM list is very not optimal and will have trouble pretty much against any decent armies.


One time D-missiles are a Stormsurge weapon. You're thinking of the wrong GMC, Stormsurges are far more manageable and fairly-costed than the Supremacy suits


Oops didn't know the Supremacy suit doesn't have a d-missiles, but it got that D-cannon. Shoot that D-cannon and all its other weapons and will probably wipe out a Stormsurge or Riptide easy.
   
Made in us
Cackling Daemonic Dreadnought of Tzeentch




Ellenton, Florida

Well, first of all, welcome back to 40k.

As you will have noticed, pretty much everything is fair game in 7th edition, and the tau have some very nice toys.

CSM, however are in a tight spot. You will face an uphill battle using a 'fluffy' CSM list against most opponents.

Having said that, the above advice regarding the Cyclopia Cabal is definitely the best way to go.

That is, of course, providing that your opponent doesn't get first turn and simply wipe them from the table with ignores cover & no line of sight required shooting.

Armies:  
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Easy solution: refuse to play against people who insist on using superheavies and GMCs.
   
Made in us
Furious Raptor




This is a Lord of War. In order to compete, you will need to engage your own lord of war. Greater Brass Scorpion is nice.

Tactically, with what you have, try to run 2 units of 3 termninators with 3 combi meltas. attach a beatstick IC to 3 oblits. DS all 3 units as close as possible and shoot at it. Then charge it. Hit it and hope. You can try to invisible some stuff and then psychic shriek it. Taking a nurgle herald can get you a piece of wargear that lowers all units on the boards ld by 1, which can help with shrieks.

Zombie minimum squads could tie it up if you can get to him consistantly, which seems unlikey. You can ally in a screamer star, some FMC's, or some artillery, but basically you need a LOW to challenge a LOW.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




First (minor) nitpick...

i run the 20man cheap blob up the field using the crimson slaughter FNP formation rule from the apostle to make it a scary distraction unit


If you mean the Brethren Of The Dark Covenant formation, that means you've got an illegal army - or at least an unbound one.

The formation requires one Dark Apostle and one Chaos Space Marine Squad.

Which you have - but if they're part of the formation, they're part of that 'Brethren Of The Dark Covenant formation detachment'.

Which means they can't simultaneously be part of the Combined Arms detachment - which means that detachment is shy one compulsory troops choice.

......Actually, forget I said that. If it's Crimson Slaughter, I assume they still get Possessed as troops. Never mind. Still, if only just restarting this edition I thought I'd point it out; you've got three detachments in that army list, not two, so I thought I'd flag it up.



anyway..... Yeah. The supremacy suit is rough as hell to face. It's incredibly tough, and (unlike a Riptide or Stormsurge) it's fearless, so even getting a wound on it and making it fall back isn't an option.

You're quite right that trying to kill it with your list won't work. But nor will a big 'distraction carnifex' squad.

I'm going to guess that you set up the Brethren of the Dark Covenant like normal, moved up the board, ran once, then took a Pattern Bombardment salvo from that thing's shoulder guns that has ignore cover to bypass any cover save, S8 to bypass feel no pain and AP3 to bypass power armour, pulverising 60-70% of your biggest, scariest squad in a single shot.

If you're facing something like a titan, big horde units are exactly what they love to engage - they have enough firepower that numbers alone won't cut it, and big enough guns that feel no pain won't do it either. Had that unit of 20 been four units of five spreading out, it would have taken a lot more effort for him to take them all out. Yes, getting first blood would be easier for him, but when you're facing Tau with an assault army, you're never going to get First Blood anyway, never mind when a war engine starts shelling you with supergun rounds....


If you want to compete with a supremacy suit, you have three real options:

1) ignore it. As you found out, this will hurt but it can be done. If you're going to run through tau firepower and have enough dudes left to pose a real threat, I recommend seriously upping the number of independent units and increasing the speed of your army. Bikes, flesh hounds, Crimson Slaughter possessed, rhinos, that sort of thing. On foot, it's turn 3, more likely turn 4 before you meaningfully start hitting back.

2) Close with it and beat it up with your own superheavy. A normal response to a Riptide or Stormsurge (beat it in combat then sweeping advance) doesn't work as the Supremacy armour has Fearless.

The Greater Brass Scorpion is also a bad option here - it's a very good superheavy (and good for annihilating the rest of his army) but it's designed to engage non-superheavies; ignore cover blasts, extra stomps, and flamer template weapons.

For chopping up a Ta'Unar, your best options are the Renegade Knight or Chaos Knight, Kytan, Lord Of Skulls, or the Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage.

The latter is the cheapest, but is susceptible to stomp as it's not a superheavy, and is easiest to kill. At less than 300 points, though, it's a damn good kamikaze unit for engaging enemy titan-esque things. It may draw more fire than it can handle against tau though.

The Lord Of Skulls is as overcosted as it always is, but against a tau army, it at least has the advantage that it can thunderblitz through a skirmish screen of fire warriors or kroot to get at the big guy, and side armour 13 means it's more tolerant of missile pod supporting fire overwatch.

The three variations on knights are pretty unsubtle. All of them can ginsu a supremacy suit in a turn or two, and whilst locked in combat the suit's not firing. Getting to combat is hard, though - you're probably best having two (hence a forsworn detachment of renegade knights is probably best) because losing one on the way in is likely - especially if that thing has the bloody gatling fusion cannons on its arm mounts.

The best, simplest, and fairly fluffy response (warning: note that I didn't say "cheap" anywhere in that sentence!) is a Feral-class Chaos Warhound Titan.

Double-dual turbolasers stand a decent chance of ventilating the thing in one turn. Four turbolaser shots should net four hits*, which have a 50/50 chance of coming up with a deathblow result.

Remember that you, as the attacker, decide the order to resolve hits - with rending, for example, you decide whether the defender makes saves for the AP2 wounds or AP4 wounds first.

Similar thing applies here - if you get a deathblow result amongst your hits, resolve that first. That does (D6+6)/2 wounds, but more importantly blows out the barrier shield. Against a shadowsword, that's no issue, but against a titan with four turbolasers, that means the other three solid hits get resolved against a target with no invulnerable save, which is likely to be a terminal experience.



* If you're missing a bloody war engine with a BS4 large blast template then your dice need a stern talking to.



Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch





Thanks for the replies guys, all really appreciated, and taken to heart!!!!
   
 
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