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Living Saints, unlike their other Saintly brethren, always seem to have a little special "umph", usually a miraculous power/ability whose origins seem to lay in their faith in the Emperor.

Canonically, we've seen at least 3 - all women having the somewhat interesting ability to cheat death in various ways.

Anais - from Dawn of War Series, ability to protect people from death.

Celestine - Returning from the Dead on a few occasions and disappearing immediately

Sabbat - Apparently Reincarnated during the latest Crusade.


I've always wondered if there were any more people who could qualify as a Living Saint.

I've heard that Solar Macharius for instance was deemed one, although i don't recall what kind of Miracle he pulled off to justify his status.

The Remembrancer Euphrati Keeler, from the Horus Heresy series was noted for pulling off a few miracles - although there was a minority opinion that she was in fact a psyker.

I think the idea is they were sainted after death, and then become "living saints" hundreds of years later because they resurrect. The contradiction in the term is the point: saints are only people who have died, so what must this thing called a living saint be?

Macharius i think is sainted. It happened after he died.

pelicaniforce wrote:
The contradiction in the term is the point: saints are only people who have died, so what must this thing called a living saint be?

One suggestion is it could be a 'good' daemon, created in the form of a long dead person.

 BobNT wrote:

pelicaniforce wrote:
The contradiction in the term is the point: saints are only people who have died, so what must this thing called a living saint be?

One suggestion is it could be a 'good' daemon, created in the form of a long dead person.

And some might call that Heresy.

But yeah i know, there have been a thousand and one explanations about what the Livings Saints actually powered by - and GW has no intention of clarifying.

I just wanted to identify all of them at least.

Like i said, I heard that Solar Macharius is apparently one, but i can't find the reason why he was deemed a Living Saint, instead of just a regular Saint....

No.

A Living Saint is someone who is sainted while still alive because of the miracles they perform.

Some living saints have an immortality clause - Sabbat body-hops, and Celestine walked out of the darkness - but they were sainted long before they died.

Case in point, Celestine was raised to Living Saint after, as a Repentia, surviving severe wounds during the Palatine Schism and being miraculously healed. She helped lead the rest of the campaign, eventually being sainted upon taking up the armour of Saint Katherine and the Ardent Blade just before the final battle of the schism.

She didn't actually die until a different action on Forrax. It was only after then that she started popping up all over the place doing her Sanguinor act (before Sanguinor made it cool).

Macharius was deemed a Living Saint because he was sainted before he died. Simple as that. The same thing happened to Sebastian Thor, although in his case I believe it was more political than anything else. He may have been the first - generally it's the Thorian Order who declare Living Saints, since they're the ones who believe most strongly in the idea of the Emperor manifesting his power through chosen mortals.

Of note, none of the Companions of Saint Alicia were living saints. All of them, including Alicia herself, sainted after their deaths in the normal way (with the possible exception of Arabella, who may still be wandering the Warp somewhere a la Leman Russ).

Nobody knows anything about Anais, other than that she's some weird Winged Daemon Prince thing.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
No.

A Living Saint is someone who is sainted while still alive because of the miracles they perform.

Some living saints have an immortality clause - Sabbat body-hops, and Celestine walked out of the darkness - but they were sainted long before they died.

Case in point, Celestine was raised to Living Saint after, as a Repentia, surviving severe wounds during the Palatine Schism and being miraculously healed. She helped lead the rest of the campaign, eventually being sainted upon taking up the armour of Saint Katherine and the Ardent Blade just before the final battle of the schism.

She didn't actually die until a different action on Forrax. It was only after then that she started popping up all over the place doing her Sanguinor act (before Sanguinor made it cool).

Macharius was deemed a Living Saint because he was sainted before he died. Simple as that. The same thing happened to Sebastian Thor, although in his case I believe it was more political than anything else. He may have been the first - generally it's the Thorian Order who declare Living Saints, since they're the ones who believe most strongly in the idea of the Emperor manifesting his power through chosen mortals.

Of note, none of the Companions of Saint Alicia were living saints. All of them, including Alicia herself, sainted after their deaths in the normal way (with the possible exception of Arabella, who may still be wandering the Warp somewhere a la Leman Russ).

Nobody knows anything about Anais, other than that she's some weird Winged Daemon Prince thing.

Ok... let's clarify terminology then.

1.) Are there Saints who are simply Sainted because they rendered some sort of service to the Imperium - like the case with Sebastian Thor?

I was under the impression of, yes there are Saints who get that title not due to any particular miracle, but because of some sort of action/service they committed - Crushing Heresy, Saving the Imperium, etc. etc.

And i was also under the Impression that - these were the majority of the Saints in question - ie: Cultural heroes.

2.) But there are Saints who get sainted because they pull off Miracles.

So that's easy to reconcile with someone like Sabbat - we see her "Miracle," just like Celestine.

......

....

So what the heck did Macharius do to get sainted while living? Did he in fact perform a Miracle? Or does he belong in Category one?

Creeeeeeeeed!

Let's face it. If you were just reaching your car in an otherwise empty parking lot, took a second to look over your shoulder and then turn back to find your car missing and in its place is a titan with guns pointed at you, THAT is a miracle. /tg/

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Creeeeeeeeed!

Let's face it. If you were just reaching your car in an otherwise empty parking lot, took a second to look over your shoulder and then turn back to find your car missing and in its place is a titan with guns pointed at you, THAT is a miracle. /tg/

Ghaz is happy that Creed has not turned his gaze on him yet. Having a Warlord Infiltrated into your underpants is a setback for even the hardest Warboss.

in a way the whole legion of the damned is a group of imperial saints. In the book Chapter's Due the legion appears and oen marine recognizes the ultramarine markings and he looks just like a long dead captain

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Creeeeeeeeed!

Let's face it. If you were just reaching your car in an otherwise empty parking lot, took a second to look over your shoulder and then turn back to find your car missing and in its place is a titan with guns pointed at you, THAT is a miracle. /tg/

HERESY!

Creed is in a whole 'nother level than Saints. He makes Tzeentch cry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
in a way the whole legion of the damned is a group of imperial saints. In the book Chapter's Due the legion appears and oen marine recognizes the ultramarine markings and he looks just like a long dead captain

I've heard that idea before - although i've heard that the Legion of the Damned's backstory is being retconned or at least been turned into a multiple choice test at this point....

GrapeApe wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
in a way the whole legion of the damned is a group of imperial saints. In the book Chapter's Due the legion appears and oen marine recognizes the ultramarine markings and he looks just like a long dead captain

I've heard that idea before - although i've heard that the Legion of the Damned's backstory is being retconned or at least been turned into a multiple choice test at this point....

There ae a few theories, most people thought they were the Firehawks who thanks to a either defective (or warped) geneseed would sort of go crazy and become more and more powerful before eventually dying from the condition. They had the same types of imagery with flames on their armor though less skulls and bones and orange instead of black. They only issue with this is that the legion predates the firehawks chapter. Of what they know it really is likely that the faith in the emperor is making him more and more powerful, think humanity's version of slaneesh only instead of fun stuff we basically made a atheist god (mala is probably pissed as this is his stomping grounds) The legion of the damned would be the equivalent of a daemonic conversion of a cultist or space marine. A space marine can become a greater daemon though whereas the legion seems to be more of a promotion to lesser daemon of the Big E. It would be neat if they kept going with this and there was a daemon prince equivalent except a loyalist (though maybe a dreadknight would count as this if it were not a big space marine baby carrier, but you get the picture)

GrapeApe wrote:

Ok... let's clarify terminology then.

1.) Are there Saints who are simply Sainted because they rendered some sort of service to the Imperium - like the case with Sebastian Thor?

I was under the impression of, yes there are Saints who get that title not due to any particular miracle, but because of some sort of action/service they committed - Crushing Heresy, Saving the Imperium, etc. etc.

And i was also under the Impression that - these were the majority of the Saints in question - ie: Cultural heroes.

Officially, we don't know. There has never been published a set of rules for the canonization of a saint in the Imperium, other than that of a Living Saint.

However, many of the named saints don't have specific miracles attached to them simply because of the lack of fluff written about the majority of them.

Sebastian Thor, on the other hand, was credited with a miracle during his lifetime - the destruction of the Frateris Templar fleet and the creation of the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, followed by being the officially recognised leader of the Confederation of Light that redeemed the Ecclesiarchy after Vandire destroyed the reputation of the Temple of the Saviour Emperor.

2.) But there are Saints who get sainted because they pull off Miracles.

So what the heck did Macharius do to get sainted while living? Did he in fact perform a Miracle? Or does he belong in Category one?

Having checked, Macharius belongs in category one - he was sainted after his death.

The really interesting one is Ollanius Pius, who is the patron saint of the Imperial Guard - but references are only ever made to the Guard thinking of him that way. It's never been made clear whether he was actually canonized (or even if he existed at all). If Ollanius Perrson is Pius, then it would be incredibly ironic if he were.

The Ecclesiarchy has named thousands of people as "saints" for various actions taken on its behalf, and on behalf of the Imperium/humanity entire. These actions do not have to be miraculous in the "supernatural event" sense, but can simply be significantly impacting, and are things that bolster, expand and exemplify dedication to, and selfless service to, the Emperor.

Euphrati Keeler was considered a Living Saint during the Horus Heresy, and founded the Imperial Cult that began worshipping the Emperor as a god.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Euphrati Keeler was considered a Living Saint during the Horus Heresy, and founded the Imperial Cult that began worshipping the Emperor as a god.

A cult.

There were enough cults of the Emperor deified that they ended up fighting a massive war across the entire Imperium that lasted from the end of the Heresy until .M32, at which point the victorious Temple of the Saviour Emperor went and got itself recognised.

There was on Ecclesiarchy to name Living Saints, although Keeler's companions did consider her as such.

Cain was made a prophet on Tallarn, after he fought a daemon.

'After his actions on Adumbria, a small sect on Tallarn arose which worshipped Cain as a Prophet, a physical conduit of the Emperor's divine will. Vail noted that it was perhaps fortunate that Cain, so far as she was aware, never learned of this sect's existence'

The Imperial Faith is made of hundreds of thousands of sects. One man's saint is probably another man's charlatan.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Having a Warlord Infiltrated into your underpants is a setback for even the hardest Warboss.

Is that because he's in his underpants or did you mean something else ... oh ho ho

A Living Saint is a character in the Blood Path series, download the free sample and he's mentioned towards the end of it.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/blood-vision-eshort.html

A cult.

There were enough cults of the Emperor deified that they ended up fighting a massive war across the entire Imperium that lasted from the end of the Heresy until .M32, at which point the victorious Temple of the Saviour Emperor went and got itself recognised.

There was on Ecclesiarchy to name Living Saints, although Keeler's companions did consider her as such.

Indeed. The Lecticio Divinitatus was floating around as a document long before her, for example.

Although since she's essentially playing "wandering pilgrim" and putting the assorted cells in touch with one another, the resulting structure might well be the one to evolve into the TOTSA.




The other 'Saint' of a similar nature (resurrection) who springs to mind is less Imperium-wide; Saint Drusus was the (replacement) military commander who was responsible for conquering most of the Calyx Expanse (1,000 years later the Calixis Sector, the setting for the Dark Heresy RPG).

He was known to have been murdered by [Deleted by Inquisitorial Order] during the crusade, but somehow miraculously survived/resurrected and ended up leading the crusade in a halo of general glowing awesomeness. If you believe the Ecclesiarchy, anyway.

But yes, essentially all Imperial heroes are considered saints to a greater or lesser extent, it's just that the Ecclesiarchy normally prefers to wait on venerating them until they're safely dead.