Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

EDITED 19/6/16 LIST UPDATED
Hey all. I posted a list on here a while ago, but it wasn't very good or proper. I've taken some time now to really think of a meet all comers list i can develop which will require only small tweaks if I'm facing something specific. I'll go through the basic tactics of how I see the list playing out at the end. Please give any critique you feel is necessary. I'm not new to the hobby but I've been on hiatus for a few years which means i may miss something obvious, so be polite. Here's the list

'Pinion Battle Demi-Company '
Shadow Captain Shrike
Assault Squad
Flamer, Jump Packs, 2x Replace Bolt Pistol and Chainsword with an Eviscerator, 9x Space Marines
Veteran Sergeant
Lightning Claw, Power Fist
Devastator Squad
4x Lascannon, 4x Space Marines
Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Boltgun
Scout Bike Squad
Cluster Mines, Scout Biker, Scout Biker with Astartes Grenade Launcher
Scout Biker Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Locater Beacon, Melta Bombs
Scout Bike Squad
Cluster Mines, Scout Biker, Scout Biker with Astartes Grenade Launcher
Scout Biker Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Locater Beacon, Melta Bombs
Scout Squad
Camo Cloaks, 4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle
Veteran Scout Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Nihilus
Tactical Squad
Lascannon, Plasma Gun, 9x Space Marines
Razorback
Twin-linked Assault Cannon
Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-plasma
Tactical Squad
Meltagun, 4x Space Marines
Razorback
Twin-linked Lascannon
Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta
Tactical Squad
Meltagun, 4x Space Marines
Razorback
Twin-linked Lascannon
Space Marine Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta

So basic tactics are for the Devastators and the Sniper scouts to sit back and rain death on tanks and heavy infantry. Scouts can give the Devs Ignore Cover and it makes a good mini fire base. Combat Squad the Plasma/Las Tacticals and depending on the amount of Tanks, MC and Heavy infantry I come across either the Las or the Plasma will stay back to hold objectives and give fire support to the Scout/Devs while the other half takes off in Assault Cannon Razorback and goes hunting for targets and objectives. The Scout Bikers will lead the Melta Tacticals into outflanking positions with their Razorbacks. Scouts lead em on, give them ignores cover, and hold objectives we steal from the enemy. The Tactical marines will push into the centre and crush the enemy. While all this is going on Shryke will deep strike (hopefully after the scouts get there with the beacons) onto the field with the Assault squad and proceed to annihilate the enemy gunline/advancing horde/whatever I point it at. It's relatively flexible, with solid holding units, lots of Lascannon for big gribblies, tanks and tough characters. Shryke and the Assault squad will destroy just about anything in CC. Raven Guard Chapter Tactics make this list extra potent. 2+ cover saves for most units in the first turn, yes please. So let me know what you all think. This list is designed to come in strong, be a bit risky, but be fun to play with a good chance of winning.
Cheers in advance
SaN

Well my friend, I'm sad to say that you still need an Auxiliary formation or this won't be a legal list. Maybe use it to get some flyers or anti air to replace those flakk missiles.

As for what you've got here:

1. I'd go with just a powerfist on the Vet Sarge. The LC isn't doing him any favors, just a waste.

2. If you're using any scouts to help take and hold objectives, I'd drop the ML and take a combi-flamer to defend or take objectives.

3. Don't put the Las Tacticals in the Razorback for any reason. They are useless in there and have to snap fire on the turn they get out.

but not a bad battle plan in general.

The company formation is legal on it’s own, he just doesn’t get the benefits of the Talon SF unless he takes an Aux.

(Which, is probably worth doing, points allowing.)

Overall the structure and tactics of your list look pretty good. You do, however, spend a lot of points on upgrades I’d pass on.

Plasma pistols are comicly overpriced. I want to like them, but not at 15ppm. Flamers will serve you well instead. You have a ton of points invested in a 1W sarge there. I’d keep him more bare-bones. Vet sarge, power weapon/bolt pistol. As you plan on having a HQ in the squad, I’d give him an axe. He has some protection from being called out, and the squad could use the AP2. PF/LC is really a lod that should be reserved for captains. Or at least VVs, where they get a discount.

Devs are fine

You are better off just ignoring flyers then paying points for flack.

Your tacs are pretty solid. I’m not a fan of paying points for dozer blades, but some people like them.

I considered taking the PF/LC because it means he will get an extra attack for having two specialist weapons. The squad he is in is my big MC, tank, termie, blob counter. Having the option for S8AP1 with 4 attacks on the charge or S4AP3 hitting at initiative makes the squad more versatile. There are alot of ablative wounds there. I'd rather drop both that Plasma Pistol (what's the point of one?) and keep the Vet Sgt the way he is. There is enough hard hitting power with the Eviscerators.

I'm actually thinking about taking Scout bikers instead with the Grenade launcher, the thing that stops deep strike scatter and maybe a decent weapon on the sgt. thoughts on that?

The Las combat squad will most likely be a back line player, to camp an objective or hold after another squad clears it. Versatile with a bit of anti tank and then good all round bolters.

I'd really like to take it to the next level and get the formation with the Vanguard Vets and the scouts, but at 1500 it just seems like both formations are too bare, not enough killing power. But 1500 points is my start, and I'll work it in around 1750.

I spend alot of points on upgrades, because I wanted to keep the marine body count down, representative of the Raven Guard fluff that they're low on manpower but have skilled soldiers even for Space Marines.

The Dozer blades were just spare points.

Cheers for the feedback really keen to optimize this list.

Don’t get me wrong, PF/LC is a good combo. I run my JP captain with a similar load. (Although I went with a TH, not for the concussive, but for looks). It’s just 40 points of gear on a 1 wound model. Not counting the 10 points for being a vet, or the base cost of the sarge. IMHO that is too many points invested in a guy with 1 wound, basic power armor, and no invuln. It’s a little more viable on a vanguard vet, as they only pay 20 points for the gear and are a lower base cost for a vet (rather then a sarge upgrade) YMMV

Plasma pistols are iconic, cool looking, and massively overpriced. Not that they are useless. But generally you are only going to get to shoot them once or twice a game, and after that they are just an extra CC attack. And 15 points is too expensive for that single plasma shot. Which is a shame, as I’d love to field them.

Scout bikers are a fun little unit. Some neat tricks you can pull with them. They have a laundry list of special rules, and some nice options. Cool looking minis as well. I have a small squad I enjoy using. The Land Speeder Storm is a very nice unit. It fits well into a number of formations, has the jammer and the blind launcher, plus a normal gun. Can potentially be ObSec, or at least carry ObSec troops, and is zippy. If you like scouts, you probably want one or two. Well worth the points you spend on them.

One problem with formations is the size. You often spend so much on just getting the bodies on the field, that you don’t have points for all the upgrades you want, or to include non-core things you’d like to play. Don’t forget that if you want to mix things up a bit, you can always go back to a CAD. While the fluff is an important part of why we play this game, remember that it is still a game, with points and rules. If marines were stated up like they are in the fluff, they’s be ~150 point MCs that could take down whole hosts of lesser foes on their own, and we’d only field a handful of them at a time. While you build a fun army, just remember to keep half an eye on the mechanics.

I'm with Nevelon - I think we need to trim a bit of fat. That sarge is just screaming for a challenge against a higher initiative ap3 or better gun to kill before his cool weapons get to swing. Or you whole squad will get pulped before they get to charge after deep striking. Against Tau this is a BIG possibility - It's happened to me before turn 1.

Scout bikes are solid - not a bad choice there at all.

I like your disposition of tactical squads though, all around solid.

Devs are solid - Lascannons are my choice as well, but YMMV with them. Sometimes I hit 4 times and 1-shot a land raider from 40 inches across the board. Other times I miss all 4 shots like three turns in a row.

Overall I like it man.

I've already got a modelled up sgt which I've had for a few years. It's got a bit of sentimental value and while I agree with your arguments on all fronts, like you said, I have to remember it's a game and this part of the game is going to be a real fun go for me. This list isn't designed to win tournaments, but just be a list that will be fun to play and competitive on the local gw store level, nothing too serious. I can see it being a model with the potential to have those excellent moments that make you want to name and celebrate a mini, and I can see him falling to a stray lasgun on the turn he arrives. I'd like to run with it a while and if nothing exciting happens, well then I'll drop it.
The plasma pistols I liked for that extra bit of hard hitting. Something to throw at a MC before charging, or help clear MEQ. But i do definetly see your point and I'm hinking of swapping for a flamer, or perhaps just dropping altogether.

I like the idea of scout bikers leading in an outrider razorback with a small elite hit squad in. That's so Raven. I thought about a Storm, but they just seem to die so easily. I'd like to check out some posts on scout biker tactics though.

I'm sticking to a CAD in most battles at the moment (500-750). Don't have all the models for anything fancy. It works well, but those ignores cover Devs and the Outflanking ignores cover, razorback melta combo is just drool worthy IMO.

I can agree that I've splashed out on a few units, and if you all honestly think it'll kill the effectiveness of the list then I'll change it. But I reckon I can get away with a little bit.

Thanks for the compliments on the Tactical and Devastator units.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll do up a new list soon and update the original post.

Hey man this hobby is about what you want to play. You dig it? Go for it!

More power to ya - happy hunting.

Victoris Aut Mortis

Storms might be the most fragile vehicle in the codex. AV10, 2 HP, open topped is not doing it any favors (although they can jink). But they cost peanuts: 5 points more then a rhino. Heck, it’s 5 points less then a normal HB speeder, and comes with more toys. They are probably worth flying empty as gunboats, with all the little perks they have.

But what they do for a unit of scouts is pure gold.

Most 40k games are objective based. With maelstrom especially, getting units to where they need to be to score is critical. Fast skimmer transport that may be ObSec on it’s own is VP in the bank.

And while open topped might make it explode into a glorious fireball when exposed to harsh language, it comes with some very nice perks as well. Like letting everyone inside shoot. Great for bolter scout drive-bys. Or counting as an assault vehicle. So CC scouts can pour out and mug/tarpit someone (with help from the blind launcher)

If you like scouts (and it sounds like you do) I can’t recommend them enough. I own one, and use it a great deal. Picking up a second is on my short list of things to acquire.

I have a small unit of scout bikes I field. Just 3, the sarge and two with the AGLs. There are two tricks I love them for. One is scouting forward aggressively first turn with a locator beacon. This allows precision first turn deep strike from things like pods. The other is using either scout/infiltrate/ or outflank, depending on the needs of the game to get behind tanks and rapid fire krack grenades into the soft rear armor. They can also plow into CC as needed to silence irritating backfield units. Even if you don’t kill them, odds are you can tarpit/disrupt then for a turn or two.

There are a number of tricks I don’t use them for anymore, due to rules changes. Back when we could choose our psychic powers, having the beacon for gate of infinity was very nice. Also the old turn one melta torpedo. They could get a turn one charge and auto-hit stationary tanks with a melta bomb.

How effective a list is is also very dependent on your local meta. Your list isn’t bad. You have a healthy mix of mobility, AV and anti-horde firepower. It’s a solid TAC list, very playable. In a more cut-thought environment, it might not be as efficient as a more refined list. But in a more casual meta you should be just fine. Unless you are playing at the tournament level, there is room for fluff and fun in a list. How lucky you are and the mood of your scatter die is going to have more impact on the game then if you blew 15 points for an overpriced plasma pistol.

That said, those little things do add up. Generally if I want to include something I know is “meh” from a mechanics POV, I tighten up my list in other parts to compensate. But I’ll take stuff the internet rails against as useless, and enjoy taking them. Just not a lot of it in any one list. I don’t want to sink my chance of winning that much. Just a little bit to make things fun and interesting.

 Nevelon wrote:

That said, those little things do add up. Generally if I want to include something I know is “meh” from a mechanics POV, I tighten up my list in other parts to compensate. But I’ll take stuff the internet rails against as useless, and enjoy taking them. Just not a lot of it in any one list. I don’t want to sink my chance of winning that much. Just a little bit to make things fun and interesting.

This, I could not of put it better.

Biggest things I see wrong is in the unit with the nihilus pit a Missile Launcher in it. Dropping the Flakk and Plasma Pistols in favour of flamers. CCW/BP Scouts with a melta bomb in a LSS with a heavy flamer is just pure awesomeness. The extra scatter again deepstrike/pods is huge.

The best advice I can give you here is to make sure your opponent understands that you'll be using a fun, casual list beforehand so that you and he both can have a fun beer and pretzels game.

Unfortunately against a competitive list, even a more efficient talon strike force, you're going to get very frustrated. Veteran sergeants are a waste of 10 points due to ATSKNF, putting CC weapons or pistols on sergeants will range from underwhelming to actively detrimental, Melta bombs on tac sergeants aren't great, missle launchers are almost universally sub par, even against fliers and even though lascannons are still a strong choice they're no longer really able to be the hammer of space marine force.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable list that works together well and should be extremely fun to play, but you're going to have a very hard time against lists that have been iterated on in 7th.

Origional post updated with new list. I still have 18 points to fill.

Victoris Aut Mortis Brother Castellan! For the honour of the XIX Legion

I do like the LSS but I just think they're too fragile. I've gone with the small units of bikers. I like the scouts because it's fluffy for Raven Guard. Plus with the new rules their just a 4+ sv tactical marine.

The local meta is very casual and fun. I won't come up against anything made of cheese unless I know full well that's what we're there to do. But the lists are still moderately solid. It's good natured.

How's the new list looking? I tried to take most of the advice into account, while keeping some of the stuff I really wanted for fluff and personal preference. I still have a few points to fill, so any advice on where to put em would be sweet.

SaN

You need to be very careful DSing assault units. You are going to drop down, hopefully where you need to be, and then get shot. A lot. The survivors might stagger into they guys who just massacred their brothers, and might mess them up in return. But it’s dicy.

I much prefer advancing up the table, out of LOS whenever possible (rhinos are good for this - mobile walls) then leap out and mug someone.

I would recommend losing the rasorbacks and switching the tacs to pure 5 man with a lascannon. If you find the points you can get a bladewing or shadowforce. With everything getting stealth on T1 you are inviting your opponent to get first blood on any vehicle you put on the table. So ypur firepower is going to be severly reduced.

Your veteran assault sgt could be moved to a vanguard vet squad and reduced from 67 to costing you 42 and he doesn't have to be challenge fodder. I might even move shrike to the bladewing or shadow force and pop a generic captain or chaplain with a jump pack to be in charge of your pinion.

I would want to maximise Shrikes infiltrate ability and not deep stike him in.

Does Shrykes Infiltrate get conferred to the squad he's with?