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My gaming group is planning a tournament for next month or so with the rules: 3 Detachments, no more than 2 of any one detachment (mayhbe ITC FAQ?). But three detachments for sure.

This is the list that I'm thinking of taking since I'm get most enjoyment playing Orks. Any tips to improve it?

Combined Arms Detachment
Zhadsnark = 150
Painboy w/ Warbike, Boss Pole = 80

13x Warbikers w/ Boss Nob, Boss Pole, Big Choppa = 272
3x Warbikers = 54
3x Warbikers = 54

Formation: Ghazghkulls Bully Boyz

5x Meganobz w/ Trukk, Reinforced Ram = 235
5x Meganobz w/ Trukk, Reinforced Ram = 235
5x Meganobz w/ Trukk, Reinforced Ram = 235

Chaos Renegade Knight Forsword Detachment
Renegade Knight w/ 2x Avenger Gatling Cannons = 435

No anti-air, but I'm sure the Bikes and Knight have enough dakka to throw into the air (my meta don't really use FMC other than me and Flyers are a meh since DftS). Big Choppa on Boss Nob because I ran out of points for a Power Klaw. Can also use him for challenges. Boss Pole on Painboy for when the Nob dies lol.

solid list... but i think i would cut down the big mob to 10 just to get another squad to grab objectives with...

since you also got the MAN's trukks to grab obj later on, you should do fine in both EW and maelstrom missions

btw... wouldnt be melta cannons better suited for the knight? i mean, the avenders are good for taking out light to heavy infantry and light to medium vehicles, but dont your bikes and manz do that already?
the melta cannons add a bit of shooty heavy antivehicle and are at the same time also good at decimating heavy infantry

My reasoning behind the Gatling are that they deal with MEQ very well (which I suspect the tournament to be full off) and also scattering blasts could cause me to lose my own guys, particulary my MANz if I went with the Meltacannons.

I'm not overly concerned with vehicles, because I've got 17 Power Klaw models and 24 S6 rending shots and Rokkit's on the Trukks for plinking hull points (I've yet to see heavy vehicles en mass anyway). In addition, the Knight still has S10 AP2 in combat and Stomp.

Solid list was building a similar list with gunwagons instead of trukks for more av13 spam on the meganobs to make people choose between anti tank in the knight or wagons.

If your opponent goes first and blows up your trukks. You are going to have issues getting across the board. You can free up points with bringing the 15 man bike group down a bit.

I would have to find 90 pts somewhere xD As it currently stands, I'm a little hesitant to use transports for one detachment to another detachment due to how the FAQ was worded. But I totally would if it's clarified to allow it.

Actually make that 180 points, because I would deffo run three solo Deffkoptas lol.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I would have to find 90 pts somewhere xD As it currently stands, I'm a little hesitant to use transports for one detachment to another detachment due to how the FAQ was worded. But I totally would if it's clarified to allow it.

Actually make that 180 points, because I would deffo run three solo Deffkoptas lol.

I'm pretty certain the same codex can use each other's detachments transports and is not considered allies but the same army.
There is an Astra militarum Valkyrie detschment that entire purpose and special rules are only about doing no scatter drops for embarked units.
The way flyers work by starting in reserves. There is no way you can play that detschment unless your allowed to put a unit in them while in reserves.

I'd drop at least 4 bikers and the extra bosspole. You only need 75pts as the gunwagon doesn't need a reinforced ram. This list revolves around the mega nobs doing the heavy lifting and the bikers harassing units with shooting and grabbing objectives.

For reference this is the 1850 list I am making currently.

1850pts
Detachment 1- CaD
Zhardsnark- warboss with Intiative 4 PK on bike that has scout and skilled rider
Painboy on bike

Mek with megablasta with tankbustas
6 tankbustas upgrade one to nob

8 warbikers-upgrade one to nob with pk (zhardsnark and painboy here)
3 warbikers
3 warbikers

Gunwagon x2- for tankbustas/bullyboys
Gunwagon x2- for bullyboys (proxy trukks if needed for 4x av13 transports)

Detschment 2- bullyboyz
5 meganobs one with skorcha
5 meganobs one with skorcha
5 meganobs one with skorcha

Detschment 3- renegade knight warden (375pts)
knight warden (have fun converting this model as a looted ork vehicle)

17 powerklaws +1 str d knight, high mobility, tons of obj secured, tough warlord, ok shooting with knight warden, tankbustas and 16x str5 ap5 assault3 twinlinked bike spam and everything (except tankbustas) has either a 2+ armour save or 4+ (or better cover save, such as with turboboost, nightfight, and/or zhardsnark unit having skilled rider).

The Mek was basically just extra points and it still gets tankhunter on a str8 ap2 weapon and can repair the gun wagon if needed. The main jist of the list is small arm fire can't really hurt anything in this list except tabkbustas once thier transport is destroyed and a lot of armies have issues with av13+ spam.

Knight is kewl n stuff but you might ask yourself why you would pick that over 30 Lootas. I would say if you aren't bringing the D then maybe reconsider.

 Rismonite wrote:
Knight is kewl n stuff but you might ask yourself why you would pick that over 30 Lootas. I would say if you aren't bringing the D then maybe reconsider.

knight 4 / 24 s6 ap3 rending
lootaz ~60 s7 ap4

both do about 20 hits so the output is the same...
BUT rending and ap3 is much better than +1str
AND the lootaz will loose firepower with each casulty sustained, the knight remains the same throughout the game
ALSO there is the massive CC ability of the knight
LAST BUT NOT LEAST the knight cant run away

the gunwagons are a nice idea. but trukks are faster... normally you can hide 1-2 trukks pretty good in turn one
maybe if you find the points but i wouldnt know where to take from... you need atleast 10 bikers in the HQ squad since you only got one warboss (and no lucky stikk)
and i personally would prefer more troops since you gonna need someone to grab all those objectives

I've done mass Lootas before and it's not as great in practice, even with Big Meks in MA tanking for them.

Trukks are faster but die so easily even a bolter can strip a hull.
Regardless if trukks are faster you are not going to get a first turn charge with them and meganobs have no real shooting to even consider so it's basically moot. You go flat out with the gun wagons the first turn and are still able to get a turn 2 charge regardless. All the while having a much more durable transport that keeps opponents from firing into your knight or killing all your tranports the first turn.

Feel free to try it out on the tournament and see what I mean. As soon as you lose first turn your opponent if smart will destroy all the trukks and leave your mega nobs (who can't run) slowly moving across the board and the knight will be the sole focus for any long range str8+ weapons and maintain the focus of all the anti tank weapons.

As I said in your list id drop 4 bikers and the extra boss pole. That still leaves you 11 biker main unit.
The 2 small units are meant to grab objectives and maybe harass a few small units.
The 3 meganob units need to get into your opponents zone and harass other units.
The knight supplies range support
And the main biker unit can also grab objectives or support any mega nob units that need help in assault or deal with any MC.
Str5ap5 twin linked spam is still decent at dealing with opposing infsntry or things like marker lights from tau.
Have your bikes play the mission and the mega nobs and Knights be the distraction your opponent Needs to deal with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
I've done mass Lootas before and it's not as great in practice, even with Big Meks in MA tanking for them.

This
Lootas still die just as easily as boy squads.
The knight is significantly more durable and a distraction so his mega nobs can get into combat.

gungo wrote:
Trukks are faster but die so easily even a bolter can strip a hull.
Regardless if trukks are faster you are not going to get a first turn charge with them and meganobs have no real shooting to even consider so it's basically moot. You go flat out with the gun wagons the first turn and are still able to get a turn 2 charge regardless. All the while having a much more durable transport that keeps opponents from firing into your knight or killing all your tranports the first turn.

Feel free to try it out on the tournament and see what I mean. As soon as you lose first turn your opponent if smart will destroy all the trukks and leave your mega nobs (who can't run) slowly moving across the board and the knight will be the sole focus for any long range str8+ weapons and maintain the focus of all the anti tank weapons.

i'm not saying trukks are definetly better than wagons... but they are cheaper and faster. beeing faster doesnt mean going in a straight line into the fray, but instead you are more manoeuvrable and can get into better positions (narmally a big LOS blocking piece of terrain or 4+ cover)
yes, trukks are susceptible to low trier fire such as bolters... but if bolters take you down you arent that far away from the enemy anyway
also gunwagons arent indesdructible... especially from the sides its just a minor improvement from the trukk.

again i'm not saying gun wagons are bad... but you have to consider the cost. its not an autotake.

btw you dont want your bikestar grabbing objectives... you need em to be in the middle of the enemy to kill stuff. everything that doesnt shoot at them wont shoot at the MANz/knight and vice versa.

personally i would take a third min bike squad.

Well good luck
Personally with man missiles I try to get what cover I can but I try to get into position for a turn 2 charge.
The main reason I like gunwagons in this list is the fact it provides almost no target for small arms which can't hurt anything in this list and takes focus away from the knight so it can survive the first few turns. In a boy spam list trukks works because of target saturation.
AV is not a linear upgrade there is a big jump from AV12 to AV13 in durability. Almost as big as AV10 to AV12. There are a lot of armies that are long range and spam str6/7 which can hurt AV12 but not 13 much. Even tau who shoot a lot of str8 has a hard time because they don't have much beyond those str8 missiles.

I guess another defence for the Trukk is that because this is a local meta, I can be pretty sure I'll be up against SM (Grav-based), Necrons (Gauss-based) and probably Eldar if the guy can get them bought in time (lot's of S6, so the Trukks do die, but take out the Wraithknight(s) and the Knight should be able to mop up).

I'll certainly consider the Gunwagons, just a case of whether I would be allowed per tournament rules (it's not me organizing it) due to FAQ wording. I shouldn't have a problem though, we are pretty good mates as a group.

Also I debated myself making 3 min bike Squads with the bike star however I felt the bikes gain more in the star and 2 min bike Squads is fine. The bike star is obj secured as well if needed in the pinch.

The bikes lose the +1 jink and ability to ignore terrain from zhards skilled rider and they lose the painboys fnp. Heck even zhards stickbombs are useful.

Zhadsnark's squad is 16 models or so, which is a huge footprint, not to mention Zhad has 24" Flatout for Objectives.

It's also Eternal War mission so I'm not sure if I want smaller squads. Maelstrom? Sure. For Eternal War durability is more important.

As I said before I'd drop his squad down 4 bikes for the wagons and keep the other bike squads at 3. It makes the footprints smaller so you can hide them around terrain as well.

Just checked and should be allowed.
Do I drop an extra bike? Would give me enough for reinforced Rams.

AV13/12/10 is certainly durable, but I'm not sure whether an extra bike is worth the chance to re-roll fail dangerous terrain tests. The big unit is still at 11 models total.

Meta is gauss and grav. Better bring AV13 and Mega Nobz?

Everyone knows one guy is buying an Eldar jetbike list supported with wraithknight and they will probably list build for it Better field some ork bikers?

You guys are regulars I know you have probably tried the many ways to field Lootas. I don't mean to insult, I am simply suggesting you might be forgoing some Ork 101 to field the new hotness.

Really, lets talk about winning some eternal war missions.. Is anyone in your local spamming flamers, ignores cover pie plates and mass quantity shooting in your meta?

The other option is indeed to go with Greentide but I don't have the models for it xD

No-one spams flamers or ignore cover templates. The Necron player is more than likely going to bring 2x Canoptek Harvests, so bikes would be best against them (if only to escape xD). I'm not sure what the SM players will bring, other than Grav, but they are more than likely going to make use of their chapter tactics (lots of bolters for IF, Close Combat guys for Minotaurs).

Meganobz seem a bit out there, but the platforms they are on are either killable (Devastators/Bikes) or can't fire Overwatch (Centurions). So I'm hoping they put in a serious shift, or at least distract enough firepower away from the knight.

I guess mass quantity shooting comes from Imperial Guard? I've only faced off against them a few times and know full well footsloggas just ain't gonna cut it against them. I just feel like Bikes are going to be the best option for the tournament. Not even planning for Eldar (though I should) but I do have an inclination of what to play against (partly because I built the list for the guy) so I've got an idea of how to play against it.

 Rismonite wrote:
Meta is gauss and grav. Better bring AV13 and Mega Nobz?

Everyone knows one guy is buying an Eldar jetbike list supported with wraithknight and they will probably list build for it Better field some ork bikers?

You guys are regulars I know you have probably tried the many ways to field Lootas. I don't mean to insult, I am simply suggesting you might be forgoing some Ork 101 to field the new hotness.

Really, lets talk about winning some eternal war missions.. Is anyone in your local spamming flamers, ignores cover pie plates and mass quantity shooting in your meta?

The best thing about grav and gauz its expensive, it's not exactly long range, and not exactly good in close combat. Everything in 40k is about list counters, but I'd rather take my chance against a drop podding in close range grav squad or centurions in close range then trying to shoot out a long range battle with 6+ armour save Orks at bs2.
To counter this list you need ap2, high str AV and ignores cover on nearly every target. While available it's not always long range or cheap.

It depends on your board setup and how you play the wagons, flat out to your opponents line or moving into and through area terrain for cover. I wouldn't drop a bike for the 3x reinforced ram. The amount of times that comes up to save your gun wagon is minimal and hopefully if it does happen your meganobs already flatout close enough for a turn 2 assault.

gungo wrote:
I wouldn't drop a bike for the 3x reinforced ram. The amount of times that comes up to save your gun wagon is minimal and hopefully if it does happen your meganobs already flatout close enough for a turn 2 assault.

sure? you got three vehicles... chances are you gonna deploy em in terrain or near terrain, which you then have to pass. thats a 1/3 chance of one vehicle beeing immobilized. get those rams... every vehicle is transporting a good chunk of your points, its more important than one more bike.