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Some of you may recall in the previous version of the Chaos Daemon Codex the story of Tzeentch's Impossible Fortress and Crystal Labyrinth - its nigh impenetrable defenses and secrets only beaten once by a "small girl with a black dog."

Aside from that hilarious bit of inspiration for an April Fool's Event where my gaming group of Deathwatch Space Marines ended up challenging "Dorothy, Princess of Change" (even got a friend who could imitate Judy Garland's voice) and her Army of Chaos Squa- I mean the Lollipop Guild (thank you WHFB ).......it did get me thinking...


Do we know of any Mortals (Remove the Emperor and Kaldor Draigo from your minds right now ), who have actually visited the Realms of the Ruinous Powers.

I mean - it has to have happened at some point, otherwise the peeps in 40K wouldn't know anything at all about the realms.

And if we subtract out all the Chaos worshippers who i'm assuming visit in order to try and coax their patron to elevate themselves to Daemon Prince status..... just why would a mortal step into the Realm of the Ruinous Powers?

A group of Eldar Farseers visited Nurgless Garden to try and find Isha to cure a plague. They got turned into trees and their bodies died or something similar IIRC.

Inquisitors can arrange an 'autoseance' in where pyskers transport the Inquisitors into the realm of Chaos to talk to a soul that has recently passed into the warp. But they couldn't stay there long, as the person they where talking to was hunted down by Daemons. The Inquisitors did stay to long, the soul was baiting them into being devoured alongside him, but they just managed to escape, however the psykers that kept the portal mostly died and a Daemon managed to crawl through the closing gap.

So if inquisitors find it so dangerous no doubt a normal mortal would find it suicidal.

Abbadon has an interesting story of him going to a daemon planet where a Lord of Change lived. The planet also had a nasty habit of making everything happen in reverse. Abbadon challenged the daemon; if he gets the name right, he keeps the power of the daemon, if he loses, he gives up his stuff, but the daemon tells him the name. Abbadon fails to guess the name the first time and gives up his stuff. When he is leaving, he tells another version of himself (because time travel happens on the planet) and the other Abbadon goes and makes the same bet, but succeeds this time and gains the daemons power to see through time and some other nonsense.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Abbadon has an interesting story of him going to a daemon planet where a Lord of Change lived. The planet also had a nasty habit of making everything happen in reverse. Abbadon challenged the daemon; if he gets the name right, he keeps the power of the daemon, if he loses, he gives up his stuff, but the daemon tells him the name. Abbadon fails to guess the name the first time and gives up his stuff. When he is leaving, he tells another version of himself (because time travel happens on the planet) and the other Abbadon goes and makes the same bet, but succeeds this time and gains the daemons power to see through time and some other nonsense.

What Fluff or Fiction piece did that emanate from?

GrapeApe wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Abbadon has an interesting story of him going to a daemon planet where a Lord of Change lived. The planet also had a nasty habit of making everything happen in reverse. Abbadon challenged the daemon; if he gets the name right, he keeps the power of the daemon, if he loses, he gives up his stuff, but the daemon tells him the name. Abbadon fails to guess the name the first time and gives up his stuff. When he is leaving, he tells another version of himself (because time travel happens on the planet) and the other Abbadon goes and makes the same bet, but succeeds this time and gains the daemons power to see through time and some other nonsense.

What Fluff or Fiction piece did that emanate from?

Should be in the Black Legion supplement.

Some ships get sucked in--its an accident. If they re-appear in the material world, it is often as a space hulk. Some come back in the far future, others the distant past.

 changerofways wrote:
Some ships get sucked in--its an accident. If they re-appear in the material world, it is often as a space hulk. Some come back in the far future, others the distant past.

But that's the Warp......

Sure people accidentally end up in the Warp.


I highly doubt that people accidentally end up in Nurgle's Garden, or the Brass Citadel, or the Palace of Slaanesh.....

And yet, the folks in 40K do know about those places....

so someone had to make the journey there into the heart of the realm of the Ruinous Powers...

Gather round, and let me tell you a story.

The story of the Liber Chaotica, which details the explorations through visitation and nightmare of the various Realms of Chaos by an Imperial scholar, one Richter Kless.

The story of Inquisitor Czevak, who journeyed so far and wide and learned so much that the Harlequins of the Black Library took him to their hidden Craftworld to share knowledge.

Let me tell you of Ephrael Stern, a Battle Sister who became a respository for the knowledge of all things Slaanesh known as the Daemonifuge, knowledge that granted her the power to bind and destroy daemons, walk between worlds and claw her way free from the Warp after death.

Hear of the Tutelaries, the 'spell-familiars', returned souls of failed diabolists who turned to Chaos for power, only to be cursed for their weakness after death, reduced to the meanest of Least Daemons.

The sources of forbidden knowledge of the Chaos Realms are many and myriad, each one stranger and more terrifying than the last.

GrapeApe wrote:

 changerofways wrote:
Some ships get sucked in--its an accident. If they re-appear in the material world, it is often as a space hulk. Some come back in the far future, others the distant past.

But that's the Warp......

Sure people accidentally end up in the Warp.


I highly doubt that people accidentally end up in Nurgle's Garden, or the Brass Citadel, or the Palace of Slaanesh.....

And yet, the folks in 40K do know about those places....

so someone had to make the journey there into the heart of the realm of the Ruinous Powers...

To massively over simplify it.

The Warp is the Realm of Chaos

"Nurgle's Garden" is part of the Realm of Chaos which is the Warp

You can accidentally or deliberately get lost in the warp which is the Realm of Chaos

Thereforeyou can accidentally get lost in the warp and be in "Nurgle's Garden"

fun thing about the warp, if EVERYONE BELIEVES Nurgle has a garden... a Garden he has!

Do people tell the stories about it because Nurgle has always had a garden, or does Nurggle have a garden because eneugh stories about it have passed to make it reality?

with stuff like this with chaos it's honestly kind of a chicken and the egg arguement.

TheWanderer wrote:

To massively over simplify it.

The Warp is the Realm of Chaos

"Nurgle's Garden" is part of the Realm of Chaos which is the Warp

You can accidentally or deliberately get lost in the warp which is the Realm of Chaos

Thereforeyou can accidentally get lost in the warp and be in "Nurgle's Garden"

So your claiming the Following

A = B
C = B
A = C

......

Got an example in Fluff or Fiction to validate this?

I mean you are right that the specific Realms of the Chaos Gods exist within the Warp........but how often does say a Space Hulk or a ship with a broken Gellar Field crash into say the Impossible Fortress?

Are you essentially saying that the Gods have no control whatsoever on how a person ends up visiting their specific realms?

ie: I can enter the Eye of Terror for instance and *POOF* i'm in The Eternal Swamp?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Gather round, and let me tell you a story.

The story of the Liber Chaotica, which details the explorations through visitation and nightmare of the various Realms of Chaos by an Imperial scholar, one Richter Kless.

The story of Inquisitor Czevak, who journeyed so far and wide and learned so much that the Harlequins of the Black Library took him to their hidden Craftworld to share knowledge.

Let me tell you of Ephrael Stern, a Battle Sister who became a respository for the knowledge of all things Slaanesh known as the Daemonifuge, knowledge that granted her the power to bind and destroy daemons, walk between worlds and claw her way free from the Warp after death.

Hear of the Tutelaries, the 'spell-familiars', returned souls of failed diabolists who turned to Chaos for power, only to be cursed for their weakness after death, reduced to the meanest of Least Daemons.

The sources of forbidden knowledge of the Chaos Realms are many and myriad, each one stranger and more terrifying than the last.

Ooh.. now this I can work.. Examples!

I'll give you Czevak and the Tutelaries..

Not sure about Stern, i mean she did essentially just disappear toward the end of the Daemonifuge series. Nor did we ever see her debrief anyone about her experiences within the Warp.



I know nothing of this Richter Kless though... he sounds quite promising..... Was he doing his work independently or within the auspices of the Imperium? Did he actually travel within the Warp and into the Realm of the Chaos Gods?

Richter Kless is more complicated. Even though he saw Chaos Space Marines, the Birth of Slaanesh via the Fall of the Eldar and had tea with the Blue Scribes (I might be making that last one up), he lived in the Empire, not the Imperium - he was a Warhammer Fantasy character. He saw the Realms of Chaos (both fantasy and 40k) in a series of dreams and daemonic visitations. The Chaos Gods chose him to spread the word of their power and dominion.

It just goes to show that even though he lived in Altdorf (I think), his work could easily be floating around Terra or Gudrun or wherever.

The nice thing about Kless is that you can buy (or probably steal) his book.

GrapeApe wrote:

I mean you are right that the specific Realms of the Chaos Gods exist within the Warp........but how often does say a Space Hulk or a ship with a broken Gellar Field crash into say the Impossible Fortress?

Probably very rarely. It's like throwing a message in a bottle into the ocean and hoping it reaches Hawaii. It's possible, but the ocean is so huge it's unlikely to get exactly where you want it to on its own. Add on to this the fact that Warp is ever changing and if the Impossible Fortress is constantly shifting position as a result, it might be a little more likely.

Sounds about right.