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hi there,

in a facebook post there was an interessting question asked:

can the act of opening the doors of a droppod (after its final position is determined) result in a mishap?

this basically is about two things:
1. do you open the doors while choosing a position to deepstrike the droppod (before rolling to scatter) or do you open them after the scatter?
2. can you choose just to open some doors?

i personally thing GW has messed up really bad with this particular FAQ. it basically allows you to model for advantage, i believe someone mentioned crawling wraithknights henceforth

but still... any ideas?

As of the FAQ, I believe that pod doors are now considered part of the model and thus cannot be moved during the game. As such, you must open the doors (or choose to leave some/all of them closed) when choosing where to deep strike at the latest, though I would probably argue that you must do this even before deployment. From then on you cannot open or close the doors as iirc the only permission one has to move components of a model is when pointing vehicle guns at their targets. I don't have my rulebook to hand so I cannot confirm this.

Just to note: I'm a SM player and I think this ruling sucks. They need a second FAQ to allow us to open/close the doors. Although that could be rather heavily abused to block/unblock LOS, as well as alter how far we can disembark.

On that last point - the doors now being part of the model does allow us to disembark from the tip of the doors (as it's open topped and the whole model is considered an access point). Enjoy that one.

As I've said in onother thread. i don't see any way those Drop Pod rules survive in that form in the final official draft of the FAQ. I doubt they thought much about any of this stuff, and are relying on social media to "playtest" these rules for them. Rulings like these that generate a lot of fuss and a million questions will be rewritten. I'd bank on it.

I think they don't want to have a bunch of players who've glued their doors in position one way or another in an outrage, and tried to make a silly compromise, that, as they often do, will satisfy no-one. The only thing that makes sense is to ignore the doors for game purposes completely.

So, play it like we have been since 5th.

SJ

RedNoak wrote:

can the act of opening the doors of a droppod (after its final position is determined) result in a mishap?

No, because you have no permission to open the doors after determining the pod's final position. You should be deep striking the model that you will be putting into play.

1. do you open the doors while choosing a position to deepstrike the droppod (before rolling to scatter) or do you open them after the scatter?

With the FAQ, you would have to open them before putting the pod on the table and rolling scatter.

2. can you choose just to open some doors?

The doors are designed to be either open or closed. There is nothing in the rules that requires any specific door to be in any specific position... So yes, you can have all or some of the doors in either position.

I think the internal guidance(not sure if thats the name of the rule but i think we all know what rule i mean) still stops that. The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game. Bit i do know not many players are as liberal with the rules as me.

sangheili wrote:
I think the internal guidance(not sure if thats the name of the rule but i think we all know what rule i mean) still stops that. The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game. Bit i do know not many players are as liberal with the rules as me.

Only if it Scatters in to that position. If you deliberately place it in to a Mishap (i.e. Roll a Hit and it still Mishaps), Inertial Guidance will not work. Nor will it work if the Drop Pod Scatters "off the table".

If my opponent wants to exit from the tip of the opened door, he"ll have to DS the pod with _all_ doors open. The doors are supposed to be blasted open with explosive charges after all, rather than opened selectively like a soccer mom's mini-van doors.

Anyone seriously arguing to have permission to open/close doors after DS or open them selectively I'd ask for any rule support. Either the doors are part of the model and therefore relevant for egress and DS - or they arn't.

Given how ridicululously overpowered inertial guidance and reserve shennanigans with drop-pods already are, I feel perfectly appropriate with the above HIWPI.

 Stephanius wrote:
If my opponent wants to exit from the tip of the opened door, he"ll have to DS the pod with _all_ doors open. The doors are supposed to be blasted open with explosive charges after all, rather than opened selectively like a soccer mom's mini-van doors.

Do you also insist on the pod being set on fire as it is dropped onto the table from a great height?

 insaniak wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:
If my opponent wants to exit from the tip of the opened door, he"ll have to DS the pod with _all_ doors open. The doors are supposed to be blasted open with explosive charges after all, rather than opened selectively like a soccer mom's mini-van doors.

Do you also insist on the pod being set on fire as it is dropped onto the table from a great height?

While that would certainly forge the narrative, I don't condone violence against minis.

My statement was more regarding the "have cake/eat cake" aspect of the doors only counting when desirable.

Humm..I think it's pretty obvious what they are going for here. Have you ever tried to bubble wrap against pods? It's really impossible. However - if the doors are required to be open as you scatter the drop pod it makes defending against them much easier. That might not be specifically what they stated in the FAQ but I think it's what they are trying to achieve. Otherwise why change the drop pod rules at all?

 Stephanius wrote:
If my opponent wants to exit from the tip of the opened door, he"ll have to DS the pod with _all_ doors open. The doors are supposed to be blasted open with explosive charges after all, rather than opened selectively like a soccer mom's mini-van doors.

Do you require blast charges or Pneumatics to blow the doors as well?

Fluff is not rules...

Anyone seriously arguing to have permission to open/close doors after DS or open them selectively I'd ask for any rule support. Either the doors are part of the model and therefore relevant for egress and DS - or they arn't.

Why can't you open whatever doors you feel like before deploying the model? The doors are most definitely part of the model and therefore relevant for egress and DS and for shooting at the Pod.

Given how ridicululously overpowered inertial guidance and reserve shennanigans with drop-pods already are, I feel perfectly appropriate with the above HIWPI.

thats a fine house rule for you, but that is not what the RAW say.

 Charistoph wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I think the internal guidance(not sure if thats the name of the rule but i think we all know what rule i mean) still stops that. The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game. Bit i do know not many players are as liberal with the rules as me.

Only if it Scatters in to that position. If you deliberately place it in to a Mishap (i.e. Roll a Hit and it still Mishaps), Inertial Guidance will not work. Nor will it work if the Drop Pod Scatters "off the table".

Yeah of course it has to scatter.

sangheili wrote:
The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game.

So what do you do if the pod doesn't scatter, and when you open the doors they hit a model?

 insaniak wrote:

sangheili wrote:
The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game.

So what do you do if the pod doesn't scatter, and when you open the doors they hit a model?

That goes back to the questions of "are doors part of the hull?"

Doesn't matter for off the table, though. That part is quite clear.

 Charistoph wrote:

That goes back to the questions of "are doors part of the hull?".

Yes, I know. That's why I was asking how it worked under his stated preferred interpretation, in which the doors count, but only after you have resolved scatter.

 insaniak wrote:

sangheili wrote:
The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game.

So what do you do if the pod doesn't scatter, and when you open the doors they hit a model?

I would Tell my oponnent to adjust the pod so the doors can open(moving pod back forward side to side twisting it). And if your next question is, "well what do you do next if not all the doors can be open." i would tell my opponent its ok man you can leave those closed.
I tend to be "this guy" when i play games.

sangheili wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

sangheili wrote:
The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game.

So what do you do if the pod doesn't scatter, and when you open the doors they hit a model?

I would Tell my oponnent to adjust the pod so the doors can open(moving pod back forward side to side twisting it). And if your next question is, "well what do you do next if not all the doors can be open." i would tell my opponent its ok man you can leave those closed.
I tend to be "this guy" when i play games.

There is no room for "this guy" on YMDC. Get the hell out of our pointless argument that could be solved by common courtesy!

 EnTyme wrote:

sangheili wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

sangheili wrote:
The way i would play it is place pod, roll for scatter, scatter pod, open doors..would you look at that the door hits a model...move pod back so it doesnt, continue playing game.

So what do you do if the pod doesn't scatter, and when you open the doors they hit a model?

I would Tell my oponnent to adjust the pod so the doors can open(moving pod back forward side to side twisting it). And if your next question is, "well what do you do next if not all the doors can be open." i would tell my opponent its ok man you can leave those closed.
I tend to be "this guy" when i play games.

There is no room for "this guy" on YMDC. Get the hell out of our pointless argument that could be solved by common courtesy!

Idk man it says YOU make the call...and that was my call. You must be one of those guys that will call out if someone moves their space marine 6 and 1/1000000 of an inch instead of just 6

The doors have to be open before you roll for scatter.

sangheili wrote:


I would Tell my oponnent to adjust the pod so the doors can open(moving pod back forward side to side twisting it). And if your next question is, "well what do you do next if not all the doors can be open." i would tell my opponent its ok man you can leave those closed.
I tend to be "this guy" when i play games.

Wouldn't it be easier to just drop the pod with the doors already open, and not have to move it around afterwards?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sangheili wrote:


Idk man it says YOU make the call...and that was my call. You must be one of those guys that will call out if someone moves their space marine 6 and 1/1000000 of an inch instead of just 6

He was being sarcastic.

My understanding of the rule, which could be mistaken, is that any door which can open must be opened, and that the doors must be opened on drop, because you are not given permission to open the doors once the model hits the table.

This massive footprint does a good deal to balance the Inertial Guidance rule, and to make back field drops more risky, since any part of the model scattering off the table is obviously a bad thing. All in all, even with my eventual expansion into Space Marines territory, I believe I would prefer to see the rule operate that way, whether that is actually how it is intended or not.

MIni MIehm wrote:
My understanding of the rule, which could be mistaken, is that any door which can open must be opened, .

There is no such rule.

 insaniak wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:
If my opponent wants to exit from the tip of the opened door, he"ll have to DS the pod with _all_ doors open. The doors are supposed to be blasted open with explosive charges after all, rather than opened selectively like a soccer mom's mini-van doors.

Do you also insist on the pod being set on fire as it is dropped onto the table from a great height?

Pods? No. Wraithknights, riptides and stormsurges? Yes.

But I kid.

RaW, I'm inclined to agree with this (you can model the drop pod however you bloody want, so long as you're willing to face the in-game consequences of it).

That said, though it's undoubtedly correct rules-wise, it's definitely wrong fluff-wise, and players most certainly should not model their drop pods in such a way, though the rules allow it.

So do you also feel it's wrong for players to model their land Raider doors closed?

Does it go against the fluff to use kneeling legs, since models are supposed to be running about?


There is no fluff I'm aware of that suggests that drop pods only have their doors closed in flight. Just fluff that says they open the doors for embarked troops to get out... You know, like every single other enclosed vehicle in existence.

Hmmmm....

Rules state how we must deploy disembarking troops from the Hull of the vehicle.
Theres mention of this being from the non-flap part previous to this FAQ.

This FAQ doesn't state a change in Hull, but it does state the doors are part of the model when asked about line of sight.

Similarly,
A banner is considered part of a model, but not to be used to determine line of sight when shooting from or to that model. A banner may BLOCK line of sight, however, for things shooting over/through it.

Sigh... where am I going with this....

Dropping pods requires now to have which flaps are to be opened, be opened prior to it landing on the table.
We're thankfully able to measure out, so that's good - just use your ruler and make a spot where it can land.

A thought:
One could have no doors open, right, and being open topped deploy regardless ...
So, it can be then advantageous to have particular flaps opened (all measured out) to fit a pod model in a snug position, then roll to scatter.
That potentially massive footprint would be the perfect thing to aid the Inertial Guidance rule, to keep that pod exact where you want it

No?

 insaniak wrote:
So do you also feel it's wrong for players to model their land Raider doors closed?

Does it go against the fluff to use kneeling legs, since models are supposed to be running about?


There is no fluff I'm aware of that suggests that drop pods only have their doors closed in flight. Just fluff that says they open the doors for embarked troops to get out... You know, like every single other enclosed vehicle in existence.

What reason could someone possibly have, other than in-game advantage, to have some doors closed and others open?

Presumably, you'd want the doors closed for practical reasons (e.g., to conserve space).

You'd want the doors open for the cinematic effect.

Why would you have some closed and some open?

MekLeN wrote:

Theres mention of this being from the non-flap part previous to this FAQ.

Not in any GW publication.

Well, not unless you previously considered the parts of the pod that make up the majority of its hull to not count as hull...

One could have no doors open, right, and being open topped deploy regardless ...

Being open topped or not makes no difference. There is no requirement to physically open a transport vehicles doors in order for models to embark or disembark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traditio wrote:


What reason could someone possibly have, other than in-game advantage, to have some doors closed and others open?

They prefer to have the doors open for cinematic effect, but there's no room to do that?

Lol: I see what you did there.

Seriously, though. It would look ridiculous. You'd just be better off, appearance wise, leaving the doors closed (sorry-not-sorry about your not being able to fire the stormbolter).

You thinking it looks weird doesn't make it incorrect so far as the fluff is concerned, however.