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Hi All,

Currently trying to get a list drafted for a trip to warhammer world and since I've always wanted to run a tank list for the guard I was very happy to find out about the Cadian battlegroup.
However I am having serious trouble with the fact the Russes have lost lumbering and are now heavy tanks, Does this mean it's a bad idea to take sponsons of any sort?

What do people think I should do with the extra bit of points I have free also?


+ Command (350pts) +

Battle Group Command (350pts)
··Tank Commander (350pts)
····Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
····Command Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
······Tank Commander [Tank Orders]

+ Core (925pts) +

Emperor's Fist Armoured Company (925pts)
··Enginseer (40pts) [Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Laspistol, Power Armour, Power Axe, Servo-arm]
··Leman Russ Squadron (165pts)
····Executioner (165pts) [Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon]
··Leman Russ Squadron (165pts)
····Executioner (165pts) [Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon]
··Leman Russ Squadron (160pts)
····Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
··Tank Commander (395pts)
····Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
····Command Vanquisher (205pts) [HoC: Kabe's Herald (20pts), Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Vanquisher Battle Cannon, Warlord]
······Knight Commander Pask (40pts) [Tank Orders]

How about the artillery formation?

Neophyte2012 wrote:
How about the artillery formation?

That's a further 600 pts landing me way over points limit for this list. Would be something I'd go for if it was 2k or bigger!

 Zaku212 wrote:
Hi All,

Currently trying to get a list drafted for a trip to warhammer world and since I've always wanted to run a tank list for the guard I was very happy to find out about the Cadian battlegroup.
However I am having serious trouble with the fact the Russes have lost lumbering and are now heavy tanks, Does this mean it's a bad idea to take sponsons of any sort?

What do people think I should do with the extra bit of points I have free also?


+ Command (350pts) +

Battle Group Command (350pts)
··Tank Commander (350pts)
····Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
····Command Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
······Tank Commander [Tank Orders]

+ Core (925pts) +

Emperor's Fist Armoured Company (925pts)
··Enginseer (40pts) [Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Laspistol, Power Armour, Power Axe, Servo-arm]
··Leman Russ Squadron (165pts)
····Executioner (165pts) [Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon]
··Leman Russ Squadron (165pts)
····Executioner (165pts) [Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon]
··Leman Russ Squadron (160pts)
····Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
··Tank Commander (395pts)
····Battle Tank (160pts) [Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers]
····Command Vanquisher (205pts) [HoC: Kabe's Herald (20pts), Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Vanquisher Battle Cannon, Warlord]
······Knight Commander Pask (40pts) [Tank Orders]

In my opinion Pask in a Vanquisher isn't worth it. Yes he makes the Vanquisher better but he is an absolute nightmare in a Punisher with a Heavy Bolter. 20 Str 5, BS 4 Rending, Preferred Enemy shots? Good bye troops and light armor. I would also make his wingman an executioner and swap one of the other executions for his battle cannon. I would also look at dropping some of the Lascannons for heavy bolters and then picking up a few dozers on Pask and his wingman just to give them the extra mobility with the Punisher cannon.

the Vanquisher really won't serve much purpose with that much fire power from Lascannons and all those Str 8 templates. I am still sort of new to the whole Guard thing but those are things I have picked up researching and reading through the book.

Also I am kind of confused on the force Org for this list? Is this unbound? If not you have no troop choices to pair with your tank Commander which makes the list illegal. I think.... lol still learning all this new formation crap so perhaps I am wrong maybe someone else can correct that.

Zaku212 wrote:However I am having serious trouble with the fact the Russes have lost lumbering and are now heavy tanks, Does this mean it's a bad idea to take sponsons of any sort?[/b] [Tank Orders]

Sponsons are not a good idea if the tank has an Ordinance weapon (Battle Cannon, Demolisher Cannon, etc) as you can only snap fire your other weapons after firing Ordinance.

How do you plan on dealing with Flyers? I would recommend at least one Leman Russ Exterminator, as they can at least try to kill Flyers in a pinch.

 Zaku212 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
How about the artillery formation?

That's a further 600 pts landing me way over points limit for this list. Would be something I'd go for if it was 2k or bigger!

It's actually much cheaper than 600 points:

Company Command Squad 60
Enginseer 40
Wyvern 65
Hydra 70
Manticore 170

Total: 405

This isn't the cheapest the formation could be but your list could really use a Hydra, and in general the Manticore is a better buy than the Deathstrike. I would seriously consider fitting this in. You already have 175 free points, and by cutting upgrades (Pask, Hull Lascannons, etc) you should be able to squeeze it in. You could also run a Company Command Squad as your command choice instead of the Tank Commander, or simply run the Emperor's Fist Armored Company alongside the Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company outside of a Cadian Battle Group (dropping the requirement for the Battle Group Command choice but losing the benefits of the Battle Group).

I'd also strongly consider just running a Steel Host formation from Sanctus Reach: Red Waaagh. It's a Tank Commander, 3 Leman Russ Squadrons, and a single Hydra. This would give you the anti-air you need, plus the whole formation gets Preferred Enemy.

TheMostWize wrote:Also I am kind of confused on the force Org for this list? Is this unbound? If not you have no troop choices to pair with your tank Commander which makes the list illegal. I think.... lol still learning all this new formation crap so perhaps I am wrong maybe someone else can correct that.

He's using the Cadian Battle Group detachment from Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka. This is a battle forged army.

 Gorgosaurusrex wrote:

Sponsons are not a good idea if the tank has an Ordinance weapon (Battle Cannon, Demolisher Cannon, etc) as you can only snap fire your other weapons after firing Ordinance.

How do you plan on dealing with Flyers? I would recommend at least one Leman Russ Exterminator, as they can at least try to kill Flyers in a pinch.

 Zaku212 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
How about the artillery formation?

That's a further 600 pts landing me way over points limit for this list. Would be something I'd go for if it was 2k or bigger!

It's actually much cheaper than 600 points:

Company Command Squad 60
Enginseer 40
Wyvern 65
Hydra 70
Manticore 170

Total: 405

This isn't the cheapest the formation could be but your list could really use a Hydra, and in general the Manticore is a better buy than the Deathstrike. I would seriously consider fitting this in. You already have 175 free points, and by cutting upgrades (Pask, Hull Lascannons, etc) you should be able to squeeze it in. You could also run a Company Command Squad as your command choice instead of the Tank Commander, or simply run the Emperor's Fist Armored Company alongside the Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company outside of a Cadian Battle Group (dropping the requirement for the Battle Group Command choice but losing the benefits of the Battle Group).

TY That pretty much answers my sponson question, and I think you've left out the points for the manditory transport for that command squad (gotta take either a chimmy or taurox)

I'd also strongly consider just running a Steel Host formation from Sanctus Reach: Red Waaagh. It's a Tank Commander, 3 Leman Russ Squadrons, and a single Hydra. This would give you the anti-air you need, plus the whole formation gets Preferred Enemy.

Strongly agree on this front. Unless you want many bolt-ons to a battlegroup, the Steel Host is much better - especially for the 'roll to hit' tanks like Vanquishers.

locarno24 wrote:

I'd also strongly consider just running a Steel Host formation from Sanctus Reach: Red Waaagh. It's a Tank Commander, 3 Leman Russ Squadrons, and a single Hydra. This would give you the anti-air you need, plus the whole formation gets Preferred Enemy.

Strongly agree on this front. Unless you want many bolt-ons to a battlegroup, the Steel Host is much better - especially for the 'roll to hit' tanks like Vanquishers.

I'll be happy as long as it lets me field pure vehicles tbh, was not aware of this formation but looks nice as it includes a hydra and has less bloat(Only have 4 Russ tanks as of writing with more in the pipeline)

Is there any extra rules other than the model count for this formation?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Extra info - I have the following models:

1 Battle tank with Lascannon & Heavy Bolter Sponsons
1 Battle Tank with changeable prow -> Also added extra radios, open hatch with shouty officer
1 Vanquisher with changeable prow
1 Executioner with changeable prow -> Magnetised for swapping to demolisher or punisher
1 FW hydra with heavy bolter

Tanks alone will have a hard time contesting objectives.

 Zaku212 wrote:
I'll be happy as long as it lets me field pure vehicles tbh, was not aware of this formation but looks nice as it includes a hydra and has less bloat(Only have 4 Russ tanks as of writing with more in the pipeline)

Is there any extra rules other than the model count for this formation?

Yes, they have the special rule "Elite Tank Crews": The Tank Commander, and all vehicles from this formation within 12″ of the Tank Commander, have the Preferred Enemy special rule

Great for Punishers in particular.

You could easily make an all-tank list using this formation for 1,000 points. Unfortunately Battle Tanks are one of the weakest variants, so I would recommend converting the turrets to something else.

I would take something like this:

Tank Commander 330
-Command Leman Russ Punisher with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons
-Leman Russ Punisher with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Leman Russ Vanquisher 145
-Hull-Mounted Lascannon

Leman Russ Squadron 300
-Leman Russ Exterminator with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons
-Leman Russ Exterminator with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Leman Russ Executioner 155

Hydra 70

Total: 1,000

I'm very partial to Exterminators and Punishers though so you'll probably want to adjust this list to your local meta.

Looks pretty good, I think I should point out that I'm, currently doing the adult learners sessions in my local GW as I haven't played in years.

From what I've seen, the people there are the same as me and haven't got up to speed with flyers/formations etc...

I also highly recommend the artillery formation as a secondary detachment. Something along the lines of

CCS with MOO + vox in chimera with HB + ML 150pts
2 Wyverns 130pts
Hydra / basilisk (depending on points and your desire for more AA)
Manticore

And just use the nice orders on the manticore. It'd work very nicely in addition to the 1000pt tank list mentioned above