Frag Grenades

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**Aedgar Perri**

I can't help but feel a bit unsure on the rules. say you have a squad of marines. Can all of them use a frag in the shooting phase or only one of them? Just a bit of disagreement between me and my fellows.

**axisofentropy**

Unambiguous. Only one model in a unit may "throw" a grenade in each phase.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this thread should be within the You Make The Call forum.

**Spiritfox22**

GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

**SicSemperTyrannis**

Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

Does that mean we chaos players get to throw all? I mean it´s hard to be tactical and all that with all those butcher nails and voices in your head constantly screaming at you to murder more gak

**Caesar3594**

SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

Does that mean we chaos players get to throw all? I mean it´s hard to be tactical and all that with all those butcher nails and voices in your head constantly screaming at you to murder more gak

I feel like this is actually an important side question. Sure a squad of guardsmen use tactics and woudnt do something some would consider dumb and have everyone throw grenedes, but as my fellow chaos player has stated many of our units ARENT sane and specifically often do things that tacticallly make little sense but fluff/destruction wise do for our chaos worshippers

Like if Khorne is screaming inside your head at you "KILL THOSE SWINE A FEW FEET AWAY FROM YOU! KILL THEM AT ALL COSTS! BRING ME THERE BLOOD!" I think its feasible that champion(squad sergeant) of chaos to order all his squad to throw their grenades to appease his god, and the painful screaming in his head, not caring about the wellbeing of his squad because... well chaos!

**Charistoph**

Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

While the Draft says otherwise, where does it state that you "throw" a Grenade in Assault?

**nareik**

Caesar3594 wrote:
SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

Does that mean we chaos players get to throw all? I mean it´s hard to be tactical and all that with all those butcher nails and voices in your head constantly screaming at you to murder more gak

I feel like this is actually an important side question. Sure a squad of guardsmen use tactics and woudnt do something some would consider dumb and have everyone throw grenedes, but as my fellow chaos player has stated many of our units ARENT sane and specifically often do things that tacticallly make little sense but fluff/destruction wise do for our chaos worshippers

Like if Khorne is screaming inside your head at you "KILL THOSE SWINE A FEW FEET AWAY FROM YOU! KILL THEM AT ALL COSTS! BRING ME THERE BLOOD!" I think its feasible that champion(squad sergeant) of chaos to order all his squad to throw their grenades to appease his god, and the painful screaming in his head, not caring about the wellbeing of his squad because... well chaos!

Chaos can 'shoot' more frag grenades as while only one model 'throws' the grenade, the rest of the squad punt, header, spit, roll and bat the grenades. Crazy chaoses!

**OgreChubbs**

Charistoph wrote:
Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

While the Draft says otherwise, where does it state that you "throw" a Grenade in Assault?

well your only other options would be to pass it off to the enemy which I do not think they would except or punch them with it.....whoch may not be a good idea. I always thouht they should change it to gernades use the small round template, when used in melee the round temple should be placed on the model using it.

**pm713**

OgreChubbs wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

While the Draft says otherwise, where does it state that you "throw" a Grenade in Assault?
well your only other options would be to pass it off to the enemy which I do not think they would except or punch them with it.....whoch may not be a good idea. I always thouht they should change it to gernades use the small round template, when used in melee the round temple should be placed on the model using it.

Well you can always attach it to the target. So you want suicide models?

**Charistoph**

OgreChubbs wrote:
well your only other options would be to pass it off to the enemy which I do not think they would except or punch them with it.....whoch may not be a good idea. I always thouht they should change it to gernades use the small round template, when used in melee the round temple should be placed on the model using it.

Considering most of the Grenades can only be used on Vehicles or Vehicle-sized creatures, "planting" is also a method. However, the verb in Assault is "use", not "throw".

**OgreChubbs**

pm713 wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

While the Draft says otherwise, where does it state that you "throw" a Grenade in Assault?
well your only other options would be to pass it off to the enemy which I do not think they would except or punch them with it.....whoch may not be a good idea. I always thouht they should change it to gernades use the small round template, when used in melee the round temple should be placed on the model using it.

Well you can always attach it to the target. So you want suicide models?

I think anyone using a bomb in melee range is trying to kill themselves anyways lol.

**Caesar3594**

Not Plague Marines. They are immune to their own bombs cause their like poison gas weapons with small deployment charges on them.

And they don't ever throw these things, it's just for when they get into melee and pretty much toss them at an enemy or on the ground near a large group of enemies, whichever spreads the chemicals more.

**pm713**

OgreChubbs wrote:
pm713 wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Spiritfox22 wrote:
GW's put this in their "First Draft" FAQ.

To be honest here's what happens, in the shooting phase all but one model can elect to fire their normal weapons while one can throw a grenade. This is realistic since no sane group is going to all grab grenades and chuck them at the same time without having people providing covering fire. In Assault it's the same thing one guy gets to pull his Grenade or Melta bomb while the rest are chopping/distracting the hell out of the enemy.

While the Draft says otherwise, where does it state that you "throw" a Grenade in Assault?
well your only other options would be to pass it off to the enemy which I do not think they would except or punch them with it.....whoch may not be a good idea. I always thouht they should change it to gernades use the small round template, when used in melee the round temple should be placed on the model using it.

Well you can always attach it to the target. So you want suicide models?
I think anyone using a bomb in melee range is trying to kill themselves anyways lol.

That only really makes sense against Infantry who you can't use grenades against in cc.

**Dakka Wolf**

Going to mix fluff and board rules here but since you can use it on monstrous critters and vehicles but not on infantry wouldn't it suggest some kind of planting. Some kind of putty to stick the grenades on things too big to notice...?

**Righteousrob**

Or it's saying the big guys and vehicles are slow enough to move away from when you use a grenade. Or they are large enough to shield from the blast. I imagine rolling a grenade at a dreads feet is much different than trying to,roll at a marine that can get out of the way so you can't use it.

**Caesar3594**

Righteousrob wrote:
Or it's saying the big guys and vehicles are slow enough to move away from when you use a grenade. Or they are large enough to shield from the blast. I imagine rolling a grenade at a dreads feet is much different than trying to,roll at a marine that can get out of the way so you can't use it.

Acurrite, but that assume imperial frag grenades are timed at 3-5 seconds like modern frag grenades. But they could have quicker timers and still be effective at rolling one at a marine or group of them

**OgreChubbs**

Well if you use frag gernades in cc with a tank or walker you should have to pass a inti test and disengage and flee.

How I would like to see it so everyone wins.

Unit engages a walker uses frag gernades, must pass a init test to attempt to flee.

If they pass the unit is moved 2" away.
If failed, your unit stays in cc with the target

Place a marker on All locations that the unit was in contact with the walker where a frag was placed. When the frag goes off place the small round template over the markers any unit touched gets hit aswell.

That way people can keep using all frags in a unit and there is a price to pay.

**insaniak**

Why on earth would anyone be using Frag grenades against a walker...?

**Charistoph**

OgreChubbs wrote:Well if you use frag gernades in cc with a tank or walker you should have to pass a inti test and disengage and flee.

How I would like to see it so everyone wins.

Unit engages a walker uses frag gernades, must pass a init test to attempt to flee.

If they pass the unit is moved 2" away.
If failed, your unit stays in cc with the target

Place a marker on All locations that the unit was in contact with the walker where a frag was placed. When the frag goes off place the small round template over the markers any unit touched gets hit aswell.

That way people can keep using all frags in a unit and there is a price to pay.

Why should I pass an Initiative Test in order to ignore Difficult Terrain penalties to Initiative?

Or did you mean Krak Grenades?

insaniak wrote:Why on earth would anyone be using Frag grenades against a walker...?

Because I hate attacking a Dreadnought at Initiative 1?

**insaniak**

He was talking about attacking with grenades, not the charge bonus.

**Caesar3594**

Yeah because new 7e rules gave use the combat profiles for grendes we've always wanted, but we're limited to only one getting to use the grenade attack per combat phase.

**Dakka Wolf**

Caesar3594 wrote:
Yeah because new 7e rules gave use the combat profiles for grenades we've always wanted, but we're limited to only one getting to use the grenade attack per combat phase.

I lost a dread to Fire Warriors because they all used haywire grenades - on the day that FAQ was released. Got home and it was sitting there in my Facebook messages I sat there chuckling and thinking "Where were you twelve hours ago!?". But then I wouldn't have a match report stating first blood shooting to Space Wolves, first blood assault to Tau.

**vladicov**

Add a special to hit roll for grenades, 4+ hits target as usual, else grenade hits the throwing unit. Represents getting your grenade thrown back at you, or detonating one while trying to place it on a vehicle. Use as many as you want. I guess it could involve BS somehow. Now grenades become a tactical decision...

**pm713**

It seems silly that highly trained warriors can't set a grenades timer half the time.

**Charistoph**

insaniak wrote:
He was talking about attacking with grenades, not the charge bonus.

Frag Grenades can only be used as a Shooting Weapon, they have no Weapon Profile for use in Assault. While available in 5th Edition, that disappeared with 6th Edition.

**insaniak**

Hence my asking why he thought anyone would be attacking a walker with frag grenades...

**Dakka Wolf**

insaniak wrote:
Hence my asking why he thought anyone would be attacking a walker with frag grenades...

If it wasn't against the rules aside I'd do it in an attempt to finish combat in my opponent's turn rather than mine.