Dark Angels Ironwing 1850pts - 3rd Try...

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**Uriels_Flame**

I've stated in another thread I have the following models available:

5 Jetbikes, 5 Termies, 60 marines, 3 rhinos, 3 Contemptors, 3 drop pods and 3 Sicarans

3rd List - you can see the discussion how we got to this point below!

HQ/Command - 455 pts
5 jetbikes, MAS, terranic greatsword, refractor field

Troops x3 - 600 pts
9 Astartes, 1 Sgt w/melta&atrificer, Rhino

Elite x2 - 260pts
Legion Mortis Dreads w/2 MAS TL HB - Fear and Tank Hunter

Heavy x3 - 525 pts
Sicaran Tank with Las Sponsons

I believe that gets me to 1840...

**Brennonjw**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
I've stated in another thread I have the following models available:

5 Jetbikes, 5 Termies, 60 marines, 3 rhinos, 3 Contemptors, 3 drop pods and 3 Sicarans

If I'm reading items correctly, the infantry choices have to be mounted in tanks (rhinos for me):

Troops:
9 Marines, 1 Sgt w/melta bomb, 1 Rhino with Havoc/HKM (extra I know, but can be removed if necessary) x3 - 645pts

Heavy:
3 Sicarans bare - 405pts (wish they could be taken in squadrons to take advantage of Interlocking Fire... Would a Sicaran be a good stand in for a Legion Predator - just call the sup'd up auto-cannons predcannons? )

So 6 tanks total - meaning I should meet the requirement of half the units in the army have to be tank type.

Now I have 3 more types I can throw in with roughly 800 pts to play with.

As a throw back (forward? ) to Sammael, I would like to have the HQ mounted - this raises a question about command squad vs. adding him to a FA slot...

HQ
This unit can get big in points really quickly so let's just use the Praetor w/ 4 Command jetbike buddiesSquad with bare bone upgrades (Paragon blade as DA love their blades and iron halo) - 455pts

vs.

HQ
Jetbike Praetor w Pblade/Halo - 195pts

FA
Jebike Squad w/SGT and Plasma Cannon - 205pts

Which still leaves us with about 345 - 395pts to play with.

With Goliaths of War - I am tempted to take 3 Mortis Contemptors (see what I did there? ) loaded with Fear and Tank Hunters - question is which loadout? First impulse for me is lascannons as I don't have anything that can really damage high armor - meaning each dread is 145pts - taking us over the limit.

So those are my fractional thoughts. Some help fleshing this out a bit more would be awesome.

I have other options as I have listed, but thought I would start here and move forward.

Thanks!

well then:

1) for your 3 mortis, I would go 2 kheres, 1 Missile Launcher/Autocannon. The lascannons simply lack the number of shots to reliably take out planes, AS WELL as the fact that most fliers don't have high AV and the fact that you have plenty of AT in the list already. Kheres will tear through most planes and enemy infantry no issue, whicle the missile launchers are simply versitile (also, with las, the dreads would be ~155 each with lascannons, not 145)

2) I would put artificer on the srgts., durrability WILL matter with such small squads

3) I would go the slightly more expensive route of praetor + command squad on bikes. While the ability to take heavy weapons is nice, the fearless bubble (+ ability to eat challanges) on the command squad is nicer (at least, compared to such a small jetbike squad as the alternative)

4) I would not try to proxy a sicaran as a pred, it's to big. HOWEVER preds would be a really good addition

**Uriels_Flame**

I'm trying to stay with what I have. I couldn't pass up grabbing Sicarans as they just look really cool!!!!

So I'm building around them. Jetbikes are also in, but the rest it up for debate.

I play IF for 40k, and wouldn't be averse to playing them for 30k but I don't have the breacher upgrades and would basically just be taking advantage of bolter drill.

Because I'm taking the Sicaran, I can't use the Heavy Support squads or I could make use of the Tank Hunter rules there - but I do get Tank Hunter on my Dreads for Iron wing.

**Swampmist**

also, DA get a sweet HB upgrade that gives them poison (2+ iirc?) and random AP. You basically get better Flash Gitz that chomp through even the mightiest of Mechanicum Robits and All but one of the Primarchs (Screw your rebreathers, Brennon

) any time you get a HB. HBs for Rhinoes might be a good idea, and it means that bringing a Jetbike Command Squad (who have HBs in their bikes) gets even better than normal. Also, you could always bring just two of the sicaran's; they are good enough that two and a good HS squad would be enough to be pretty effective. I think anyway, assuming that I'm counting it right and you have 5 tanks and 5 non-tanks

**Uriels_Flame**

Ah, good call. I just saw the HB ammo upgrades for Dark Angels and Dreads of any type using them.

AP is a D6 and always wound on 3+ - nice

Can you ride a jetbike and wield a 2h weapon?

Let me work up another attempt here.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok - 2nd attempt:

HQ/Command - 470 pts
5 jetbikes, molecular shells, terranic greatsword, iron halo

Troops x3 - 600 pts
9 Astartes, 1 Sgt w/melta&atrificer, Rhino

Elite - 255 pts
Contemptor Mortis w/Kheres and Drop Pod - Fear and Tank Hunter

Heavy x3 - 525 pts
Sicaran Tank with Las Sponsons

I believe that gets me to 1850 on the nose.

**Swampmist**

I do believe you can wield a 2h weapon on a bike, yes. The list looks good, though I must ask why the Contemptor is a mortis when it's going in a Drop Pod. wouldn't a normal one be better, and slightly cheaper?

**Farseer Anath'lan**

Your list is illegal.

Ironwing states that all infantry must be in a tank transport.
You also cannot have more non-tank units then tank units.
Dreadnoughts count as individuals.
Given 3 HS+Damocles HQ rhino, you can have 4 non-tank units that can't take a Dedicated Transport, but your Praetor takes up a slot.

Also, MAS Heavy bolters wound on 2+.

Sorry, Ironwing is really restrictive.

**Uriels_Flame**

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Your list is illegal.

Ironwing states that all infantry must be in a tank transport.
You also cannot have more non-tank units then tank units.
Dreadnoughts count as individuals.
Given 3 HS+Damocles HQ rhino, you can have 4 non-tank units that can't take a Dedicated Transport, but your Praetor takes up a slot.

Also, MAS Heavy bolters wound on 2+.

Sorry, Ironwing is really restrictive.

Rhino's are listed as Tank Type for transport, as such I have 6 tanks in the list unless I'm reading it wrong.

If true, than I should be fine.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Swampmist wrote:
I do believe you can wield a 2h weapon on a bike, yes. The list looks good, though I must ask why the Contemptor is a mortis when it's going in a Drop Pod. wouldn't a normal one be better, and slightly cheaper?

probably... with the restrictions I suppose I could run to normal ones for ground support....

Would it be statistically better to use MAS HB Mortis or Kheres Contemptor?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can any DA unit use MAS ammo or just infantry and Dreads?

Meaning just an option for jetbikes or can Sicaran use it too?

**Farseer Anath'lan**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Your list is illegal.

Ironwing states that all infantry must be in a tank transport.
You also cannot have more non-tank units then tank units.
Dreadnoughts count as individuals.
Given 3 HS+Damocles HQ rhino, you can have 4 non-tank units that can't take a Dedicated Transport, but your Praetor takes up a slot.

Also, MAS Heavy bolters wound on 2+.

Sorry, Ironwing is really restrictive.

Rhino's are listed as Tank Type for transport, as such I have 6 tanks in the list unless I'm reading it wrong.

If true, than I should be fine.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Swampmist wrote:
I do believe you can wield a 2h weapon on a bike, yes. The list looks good, though I must ask why the Contemptor is a mortis when it's going in a Drop Pod. wouldn't a normal one be better, and slightly cheaper?

probably... with the restrictions I suppose I could run to normal ones for ground support....

Would it be statistically better to use MAS HB Mortis or Kheres Contemptor?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can any DA unit use MAS ammo or just infantry and Dreads?

Meaning just an option for jetbikes or can Sicaran use it too?

Yeah, my bad, missed 2nd list. Sorry. Looks good.

**Formosa**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Your list is illegal.

Ironwing states that all infantry must be in a tank transport.
You also cannot have more non-tank units then tank units.
Dreadnoughts count as individuals.
Given 3 HS+Damocles HQ rhino, you can have 4 non-tank units that can't take a Dedicated Transport, but your Praetor takes up a slot.

Also, MAS Heavy bolters wound on 2+.

Sorry, Ironwing is really restrictive.

Rhino's are listed as Tank Type for transport, as such I have 6 tanks in the list unless I'm reading it wrong.

If true, than I should be fine.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Swampmist wrote:
I do believe you can wield a 2h weapon on a bike, yes. The list looks good, though I must ask why the Contemptor is a mortis when it's going in a Drop Pod. wouldn't a normal one be better, and slightly cheaper?

probably... with the restrictions I suppose I could run to normal ones for ground support....

Would it be statistically better to use MAS HB Mortis or Kheres Contemptor?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can any DA unit use MAS ammo or just infantry and Dreads?

Meaning just an option for jetbikes or can Sicaran use it too?

Dreads and legions astartes dark angels only.

**Uriels_Flame**

Yes sorry. I will move my current army list up to the top.

Can anyone give me some mathhammer on the mortis dread with MAS ammo vs Kheres?

I dont feel my list is light on anti infantry but on anti armor.

**Formosa**

For my iron wing I rock

2 tactical squads in rhino

2 special weapon squads in rhino

10 catapractii with Caliban warblades, 2 plasma blasters, 8 Volkites in a Spartan

Praetor with terranic Greatsword in catapractii armour
Legion champion with terranic Greatsword
Chaplain in catapractii armour, power maul and terranic Greatsword

All joined to terminators

Dorede dread, molecular acid rounds, autocannons, aelos launcher.

2 Contemptor dreads, both with Culverin

Lolviathan in dread pod

I plan on dropping the dreads eventually (to go in my pod list) for outriders, land speeders and more tacticals.

**Uriels_Flame**

Ok - 3rd list is updated at the top...

Still feeling a little short on the anti-tank.

The Sicarans are nice, but they will be instant targets.

**Kharne the Befriender**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Ok - 3rd list is updated at the top...

Still feeling a little short on the anti-tank.

The Sicarans are nice, but they will be instant targets.

A bit, but that's why you have 3 Sicarans

**djones520**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
I've stated in another thread I have the following models available:

5 Jetbikes, 5 Termies, 60 marines, 3 rhinos, 3 Contemptors, 3 drop pods and 3 Sicarans

3rd List - you can see the discussion how we got to this point below!

HQ/Command - 455 pts
5 jetbikes, MAS, terranic greatsword, refractor field

Troops x3 - 600 pts
9 Astartes, 1 Sgt w/melta&atrificer, Rhino

Elite x2 - 260pts
Legion Mortis Dreads w/2 MAS TL HB - Fear and Tank Hunter

Heavy x3 - 525 pts
Sicaran Tank with Las Sponsons

I believe that gets me to 1840...

Your Sicaran's, are they in a squadron? Can they be in a squadron? Seems a wasted Right of War if not. When I run Ironwing, I bring Predators with Plasma and Las sponsons. BS5 on that is just nasty.

**Uriels_Flame**

No, Sicarans are not squadron :( And I totally agree...

I could just run a basic 1st Legion but I really dig the poison shots on the jetbikes.

**djones520**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
No, Sicarans are not squadron :( And I totally agree...

I could just run a basic 1st Legion but I really dig the poison shots on the jetbikes.

You can take the acid shells with basic rights of war. It's not Ironwing specific.

**Uriels_Flame**

Outstanding! Wish I would have kept my 6th ed Ravenwing at this point