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How about a Chaos Space Marine formation that gives one free cultist for every standard Chaos Space Marine in your force? This would hopefully give a reason for chaos players to pick a standard marine once again and could be argued in the fluff as those that have been turned before any given battle, perhaps also having to take a Dark Apostle which would/could lead them?
Considering free Rhinos is now a thing I don't think this would be massively op

Are you suggesting you get a UNIT per UNIT?
Or a Cultist per Marine?

Some kind of formation where you take a Dark Apostle and/or Sorcerer and a certain number of Chaos Marine units of a certain size, and you get one free 10-man Cultist unit for each CSM unit might not be terrible, but it could turn into rather nasty MSU spam.

A cultist per marine, but this can only form one unit

Can it go over the normal max squad size? Or could you potentialy have a squad of like 50... and what are they armed with, as I understand there is multiple options.

Edit-Spelling

Even outside a formation, I reckon it'd be good to see something along the lines of the taking cultists as an extension of the Marine Squad in much the same way that Crusade Squads may take one Neophyte per Initiate. Given that this is Chaos and Cultists tend to vastly outnumber the Marines, allowing 2 - 3 Cultists to be taken per Marine as part of the squad would be interesting (and also differ these Cultists from regular Cultists so that there are incentives to take both).

Biggest problem is Chaos Space Marines aren't Fearless nor do they have ATSKNF. If your opponent can rip through casualties on the Cultists, you're going to have problems keeping your Marines around especially in close combat.

If Chaos Marine squads also had Stubborn perhaps?

I'd say instead of base CSM, make it chosen that can take 2-3 cultists for free (before upgrades) per chosen model as part of the unit. If nothing else, this helps justify the cost of chosen a bit.

Since cultists are fodder in every sense, I would support some sort of rule that lets cultists take wounds for any chosen model. I'm thinking along the lines of a look out sir on a 4+ (50% chance may be excessive, i'm just spitballing atm) that applies to any CSM chosen model in the unit. I'd also go as far to make the unit stubborn or fearless as long as a chosen model is still alive in the unit. Or possibly allowing a morale check reroll by letting a chosen squish a cultist if they all try to run away, basically scaring them back into fighting. Probably along the lines of how a commissar "encourages" his unit to stand and fight.

I think this set up would be a more symbiotic way of doing things and maybe let chosen see some use. I know i would field them more if I basically got 2-3 free extra wounds with some chaos flair.

Although I agree that chosen need some love I'd sooner something be added to a basic chaos space marine, I hardly ever take them any more and they should be the core of an army.

 Huron black heart wrote:
Although I agree that chosen need some love I'd sooner something be added to a basic chaos space marine, I hardly ever take them any more and they should be the core of an army.

I'd say they they are the core of the army just as much as tacticals are to vanilla marines. (Which doesn't mean much) The only reason I see tacticals is because of the free transports 9/10s of the time. Otherwise its usually scouts. The reason CSM suffer is because they lack ATSKNF and they are overcosted. Give them stubborn/fearless and a points decrease and they'll be more acceptable. Adding more cultists as additional wounds to the unit feels out of place for run of the mill CSM.

That being said, I am totally ok with a cultist champion being upgraded to an aspiring champion as a possibility. I think a bunch of Cultists being led by one marine would be cool and fluffy. I think a bunch of cultists and marines clustered together in a mess would look out of place.

 Huron black heart wrote:
Although I agree that chosen need some love I'd sooner something be added to a basic chaos space marine, I hardly ever take them any more and they should be the core of an army.

Why do "chosen need some love"?

18 ppm for a marine with 2 attacks, boltpistol, close combat weapon and boltgun, and the option to run special weapons on all of them, is nothing to sneeze at.

They cost roughly the same as and have a statline basically similar to command squad veterans from C:SM. With a "free" boltgun to boot!

Vanguard Veterans in C:SM cost 19 ppm without jump packs and don't even get the free boltgun. You also can't give them all plasma guns.

I agree that all power-armored models in the CSM codex need some "love" (they are similar in cost to vanilla marines, but they lack ATSKNF, chapter tactics and combat squads), but point for point, chosen are pretty decent.

 Traditio wrote:

 Huron black heart wrote:
Although I agree that chosen need some love I'd sooner something be added to a basic chaos space marine, I hardly ever take them any more and they should be the core of an army.

Why do "chosen need some love"?

18 ppm for a marine with 2 attacks, boltpistol, close combat weapon and boltgun, and the option to run special weapons on all of them, is nothing to sneeze at.

They cost roughly the same as and have a statline basically similar to command squad veterans from C:SM. With a "free" boltgun to boot!

Vanguard Veterans in C:SM cost 19 ppm without jump packs and don't even get the free boltgun. You also can't give them all plasma guns.

I agree that all power-armored models in the CSM codex need some "love" (they are similar in cost to vanilla marines, but they lack ATSKNF, chapter tactics and combat squads), but point for point, chosen are pretty decent.

No, they really aren't. They cost as much as an SM Command Squad without the handy special rules or the ability to take bikes or storm shields.

Tactical_Spam wrote:No, they really aren't. They cost as much as an SM Command Squad without the handy special rules or the ability to take bikes or storm shields.

1. If you talk about bikes or stormshields, we're no longer comparing an 18 ppm model to an 18 ppm model.

2. What you've said doesn't really contradict what I wrote above. I noted the point-for-point disparity between power armored models in C:SM and C:CSM, given the "free" special rules for vanilla marines.

3. Again, I make the point. Yes, they cost as much as command veterans, but they also get "free" boltguns that they can trade out for special weapons. So you can fire flamethrowers, let's say, and still charge for 4 attacks on the charge.

It's not amazing. But for 18 ppm (23 if equipped with a flamethrower), it's not bad.

Give chosen chapter tactics, something to compensate for combat squads and something to compensate for ATSKNF, and they'd be appropriately costed.

Edit:

And note, this isn't just "all talk" on my part. In a list I'm working on, I'm including a flamer chosen squad with an ML 3 sorcerer in a rhino.

 Traditio wrote:

Tactical_Spam wrote:
Give chosen chapter tactics, something to compensate for combat squads and something to compensate for ATSKNF, and they'd be appropriately costed.

That's the giving them love part.

 Traditio wrote:

Tactical_Spam wrote:No, they really aren't. They cost as much as an SM Command Squad without the handy special rules or the ability to take bikes or storm shields.

1. If you talk about bikes or stormshields, we're no longer comparing an 18 ppm model to an 18 ppm model.

They have the ability to take them. Don't read selectively.

2. What you've said doesn't really contradict what I wrote above. I noted the point-for-point disparity between power armored models in C:SM and C:CSM, given the "free" special rules for vanilla marines.

No, but it contradicts your first point.

3. Again, I make the point. Yes, they cost as much as command veterans, but they also get "free" boltguns that they can trade out for special weapons. So you can fire flamethrowers, let's say, and still charge for 4 attacks on the charge.

If you are charging your Chosen into CC, there is something seriously wrong.

It's not amazing. But for 18 ppm (23 if equipped with a flamethrower), it's not bad.

Its also not bad to play as Crimson Slaughter and make them the Ravagers so you can get Preferred Enemy and give them all Plasma guns.

Give chosen chapter tactics, something to compensate for combat squads and something to compensate for ATSKNF, and they'd be appropriately costed.

I thought Chosen didn't need "love."

And note, this isn't just "all talk" on my part. In a list I'm working on, I'm including a flamer chosen squad with an ML 3 sorcerer in a rhino.

I'm here to tell you you should give them all Plasma guns and make them the Ravagers.

I think to continue the basic idea of a free cultist formation, they come as standard with pistol but can be upgraded at the usual cost for their war gear. My original idea was that a competitive csm army doesn't usually include standard csm's, and yet people tend to include the cultists as cannon fodder or objective campers, without really improving the marines themselves you effectively have a small reason to take them due to getting something else for free. I like the idea of a marine champion leading them too.
On chosen, there are some good arguments for taking them, but the shooty role is better taken by cheaper havocs, admittedly coming from a competitive heavy support slot.
I have considered running them as shooty assault units, but have yet to try it out. I feel they have lots of options you can't always use in game.

Formation wise, hows this sound? For every CSM unit taken, a unit of cultists can be taken for free. their upgrades cannot exceed the cost of the CSM squad, so a bare bones squad of 5 CSM is roughly equal to 16 bare bones cultist. It may be a bit excessive, but it lets CSM field a lot more models while still getting the objective holders and bullet sponges, but the CSM get some play time too.